What if these revolutions spread to Israel/Palestine?

[The Gardener]

The empire is collapsing. All of these dominoes will probably fall, the fall of the corrupt and tyrannical House of Saud most likely being the explosive grand finale.

 

[CCS]

Mark Lavin on right wing radio sounded in favor of the internet shut off in egypt. He said the revolutionaries are extremist muslims who want a sharia state instead of the dictator. He said the dictator is bad, but might be better for us and the christians living there.

 

[HughJass]

Do you believe someone who is in favor of Internet censorship is in a good position to provide facts about anything, let alone the political situation in Egypt?

 

[The Gardener]

Do you believe someone who is in favor of Internet censorship is in a good position to provide facts about anything, let alone the political situation in Egypt?

Well, ESPECIALLY since Levin is one of those neo con conservatives who are decrying American "socialism" and "government takeovers" of industry and parts of the economy. Levin is all "Mister Constitution" when it comes to expressing his beefs with the current US administration... and I find it totally hypocritical that he now expresses a belief that "internet censorship" is a good thing in any context.

Hypocrites like this are why I hate the Republican party, I hate the neocons. In fact, I think the neocon conservatives like Levin, and his Faux News brethren, are worse for the country than the Democrats are.

This country needs a viable Libertarian party.

And lastly, on Levin's take... the one thing the US could do to practically GUARANTEE an islamist state in Egypt would be to continue to support Mubarak. The US needs to get out front of this and embrace the changes. The US USED to be a country that supported liberation movements, and gave aid and comfort to any peoples who yearned to breathe free of tyranny. Unfortunately, in the 20th century the US relinquished this position in favor of trying to build a global economic empire and get rich by exploiting global commodity flows and labor arbitrage. Some call it "globalization", I call it long term suicide for short term gains. If we had a responsible government, we'd be shunning globalization and would instead be working to LOCALIZE resource flows and minimize energy imports.

 

[HughJass]

the chinese aren't taking any chances

Chinese authorities are censoring internet references to protests in Egypt, fuelling speculation the government is deeply concerned about the effects Middle East unrest could have in China.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011 ... 127427.htm

 

[The Gardener]

An interesting piece on Egypt:

http://www.counterpunch.org/price02032011.html

 

[Aplunk1]

One thing I haven't come across recently is a good profile on Mubarak.

I suspect he will keep Egypt much safer than what the Muslim Brotherhood will offer.

 

[HughJass]

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is discussing with Egyptian officials a proposal for President Hosni Mubarak to resign immediately, turning over power to a transitional government headed by Vice President Omar Suleiman with the support of the Egyptian military, administration officials and Arab diplomats said Thursday.

Even though Mr. Mubarak has balked, so far, at leaving now, officials from both governments are continuing talks about a plan in which Mr. Suleiman, backed by Lt. Gen. Sami Enan, chief of the Egyptian armed forces, and Field Marshal Mohamed Tantawi, the defense minister, would immediately begin a process of constitutional reform.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/world ... ss&emc=rss

That's that done then. Replace scumbag x with scumbag y and present it as a transition, make up some bullshit about having fresh elections sometime down the road so the gestapo can have enough time to round up the opposition.

Then again the people look pretty ballsy. They've lost their fear of the regime and the army's lower ranks look like they're with the people. I guess the regime would need a Tiananmen style event in order to make them all submissive again. A big protest is planned for tonight, it could provide the oppertunity. How would Obama and the rest of the Western hypocrites look if that happened on their watch? What would happen in our own countries?

Hard to know how this is going to end up. Can't help but be a bit pessimistic, but also can't see how things could go backwards after the size of the demonstrations this week.

 

[HughJass]

I suspect he will keep Egypt much safer than what the Muslim Brotherhood will offer.

What makes you think the only choice is between the MB and Mubarak?



It's propaganda.

 

[Aplunk1]

I suspect he will keep Egypt much safer than what the Muslim Brotherhood will offer.

What makes you think the only choice is between the MB and Mubarak?

The Muslim Brotherhood is pretty much a staple. They've been around for 30 years, and from what I've read in media reports, the strongest political opposition force in Egypt. They've long been censored by Mubarak.

I bet they take to power pretty quickly. But, that's just me.

 

[Bryan]

Hard to know how this is going to end up. Can't help but be a bit pessimistic, but also can't see how things could go backwards after the size of the demonstrations this week.

Oh, I dunno...the uproar in Iran after their election gradually died down...

 

[The Gardener]

I suspect he will keep Egypt much safer than what the Muslim Brotherhood will offer.

Egypt is pretty much a shithole under Mubarak, so I can't say I would agree with that statement.

I think the powers that be like Mubarak NOT because he keeps Egypt safe, but rather, he keeps foreign (US) imperialist economic interests in the Middle East safe.

Let the Muslim Brotherhood rule if that is what the Egyptians want. Why is this any of our business?

Frankly, I think supporting Mubarak will do more to incite terrorism against us. Just now on CNN there were some commentators saying that if Mubarak puts this unrest down, there will be a groundswell of support for the "Martyrs of Liberation Square" that will probably inspire future terrorists to attack the US. Egyptians pretty much believe that the US runs the regime in Egypt, so if they feel that attacking Mubarak won't get them freedom from tyranny, instead they'll focus their anger at the US itself, the US being the power BEHIND Mubarak.

Think about 9/11. The hijackers were all Saudis... another nation that is tyrannically ruled by a US supported tin pot dictatorship. Now the Egyptians will join in the shared hatred.

 

[Anarch]

I'm not sure who to trust in this Egypt uprising.

I know that governments within and without of Egypt love stirring up chaos to bring about their particular long-term goals. But as to what exact goals, who knows?

I do hope that all people can live freely and peacefully some day.

 

[HughJass]

I suspect he will keep Egypt much safer than what the Muslim Brotherhood will offer.

What makes you think the only choice is between the MB and Mubarak?

The Muslim Brotherhood is pretty much a staple. They've been around for 30 years, and from what I've read in media reports, the strongest political opposition force in Egypt. They've long been censored by Mubarak.

I bet they take to power pretty quickly. But, that's just me.

The article below is well worth a read. The MB's influence just isn't what it is made out to be in western media circles.


The Muslim Brotherhood Bogey Man

 

[HughJass]

Impeccable logic! If you hate the US so much, why don't you leave, bitching doesn't help anything! I can't stand this bull sh*t logic! One of my best friends got killed last month from one of these radical Islamist pussies, he gave eight years of his life fighting for this country, (and his life) just so people like you could defend the radical islamist pricks! The pussies hid a bomb in the sand, that's how they fight, like f****ing cowards. all in the name of muhammad, blessed be his name my ***!

If you feel so adament about it, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and strap up with an AK and go and aid them in their revolution, otherwise stop talking sh*t!

Leaving aside the other hysterical and deluded ravings in your post, you don't find it a tad hypocritical to be against what radical Islam stands for while telling your fellow countrymen to leave if they are going to criticize the government?

 

[The Gardener]

Wow. Instead of having a reasoned debate about things, you jump the shark and start throwing all kinds of ridiculous straw man arguments at me. I thought this was a democratic republic, where people were supposed to discuss/criticize/argue over issues in order to find truth?

Wow that's a great idea! I love how you condemn the US for being imperialists and endorse the Muslim brotherhood (whose goal is to be imperialists) in the same post.

The US, right now, is imperialistic. And I believe that any educated and rational person in the world that you talk to would agree that the US is the ruling hegemonic power in the world, and in the case of Egypt in particular, when you have a dictator in power and give him $1.5 Billion a year in subsidies to fund his regime, it is a DE FACTO example.

Impeccable logic! If you hate the US so much, why don't you leave, bitching doesn't help anything!

That's an absurd statement. Just because I vehemently disagree with some aspects of American foreign policy does not imply that I "hate" the US. Quite to the contrary, I love the US and find your McCarthyesque conclusion to be ridiculous, and a tremendous personal insult. Frankly I think your smear is deserving of an apology.

My criticisms of certain policies are founded in the fact that I do love my country. And when I think it acts in a way that is contrary to what I perceive to be in accordance to our heritage and our values, I think speaking up and calling it out is a form of patriotism. Is that not why we have a first amendment?

Not speaking up, and not participating in free exchange of ideas in a democratic society isn't a sign that you love the country, its a sign that you don't give a sh*t. And frankly, I DO give a sh*t.

If you feel so adament about it, why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and strap up with an AK and go and aid them in their revolution, otherwise stop talking sh*t!

Really?

 

[The Gardener]

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

 

[HughJass]

[youtube:2qtx2xlc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqydgpyVNKY[/youtube:2qtx2xlc]


The Egyptians have surely paid a price. RIP

 

[HughJass]

Wikileaks proves invaluable yet again. Not even the American diplomats on the ground buy the fearmongering about the Islamists:

The cables suggest U.S. officials have consistently responded skeptically to the Egyptian government's dire warnings about the Brotherhood.

In a November 29, 2005, cable to Mueller before his visit, Ricciardone said Egyptian authorities "have a long history of threatening us with the MB bogeyman."

"Your counterparts may try to suggest that (then President George W. Bush's) insistence on greater democracy in Egypt is somehow responsible for the MB's electoral success," he wrote. "You should push back that, on the contrary, the MB's rise signals the need for greater democracy and transparency in government."

"The images of intimidation and fraud that have emerged from the recent elections favor the extremists both we and the Egyptian government oppose. The best way to counter narrow-minded Islamist politics is to open the system."

In a follow up cable on January 29, 2006, Ricciardone seemed to foreshadow the current unrest when he wrote to Mueller: "We do not accept the proposition that Egypt's only choices are a slow-to-reform authoritarian regime or an Islamist extremist one; nor do we see greater democracy in Egypt as leading necessarily to a government under the MB."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... geNumber=2

 

[HughJass]

The wealth of Ahmed Ezz, the former NDP Organisation Secretary, is estimated to be 18 billion Egyptian pounds;

The wealth of former Housing Minister Ahmed al-Maghraby is estimated to be more than 11 billion Egyptian pounds;

The wealth of former Minister of Tourism Zuhair Garrana is estimated to be 13 billion Egyptian pounds;

The wealth of former Minister of Trade and Industry, Rashid Mohamed Rashid, is estimated to be 12 billion Egyptian pounds;

The wealth of former Interior Minister Habib al-Adly is estimated to be 8 billion Egyptian pounds.

Sources at Cairo Airport said 3 of former ministers asked for a permission to travel yesterday and the day before yesterday, but they were denied such permission.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/ ... t-protests