Why are people so against finasteride?

[Micky_007]

Ok, Now we have agreed to disagree on the ''finasteride doesn't work'' point.

can we just clear up this other issue as we keep going round on circles at this point

Going back to your own hair loss timeline that looks something like this if I am not mistaken:
1 year Minoxidil + Microneedling + 2 years finasteride use followed by 3 year break of no treatments.

so in total you have a miniscule 3 years of treatment use.

Can you please explain how any of that experience can place you in a position to give advice to somebody that has been on treatments consistently for 27 years?

And how can I convert any of the knowledge you have learned and use it to improve my own personal situation?......

Because the only answer I can find is I can't, there is nothing you can share with me, that can effect or improve my case moving forward as you just don't have the experience or knowledge maintaining hair for any length of time.

that is the point i have made several times, but you still want to keep trying to tell me that we are somehow of equal experience in this subject and that there is advice you can give me.

can we agree on this also and move forward?

No we can't agree on that because once again you missed out facts. I had used Minoxidil alone before using Minoxidil + Microneedling.

Furthermore, I also used LLLT and PRP before using Finasteride.
Ofcourse LLLT and PRP as anyone who used it would also tell you is useless.

I also have experience going to multiple dermatologists who don't really know much about Finasteride and its true effect on DHT, when I mentioned it to them they were surprised. Also, how I know many dermatologists and doctors know a lot less about Hairloss than very well read individuals on specific topics.

I've also used natural approaches, including scalp massages, natural oils, vitamins (ofcourse these aren't a cure but they do help, a lot). There's actually studies on the benefits of scalp massages.

And unlike you, I know a lot about almost all of the upcoming treatments for Hairloss in the pipeline which you think might never happen because you think using the past failed experiences in the hairloss industry can be used as a measure of the future - which it obviously cannot.

I have a lot more knowledge than you who is mainly limited to Finasteride. If anything, it's you who has no knowledge to offer, not the other way around.

Let's just take a simple example of why you can't use the past to determine the future, in anything, and I can discuss from technology, to the stock market to almost any other industry.

For example, imagine if just because Thomas Edison had failed hundreds of times before inventing the light bulb, and you just used his past experience of failure and said, "Oh well, based on the past of lots of failures, we'll never be able to invent a light bulb" - obviously such a thought is now seen as ridiculous.

The same goes with any other invention, it required many failures and not having before it was invented.

I'm sure you can understand the concept I'm getting at.

 

[Micky_007]

"Wholistic" or "holistic" encompasses a swath of quackery. Which would explain why you'd so fervently believe the propaganda on finasteride. Both require a low standard of evidence.

Can you stop pretending that experts don't know anything? Or that you know more than an expert? We both know it's not possible to substantiate that nonsense.

I along with many others in this very thread have had undeniable side effects whilst on Finasteride. I started of super positive it would work (so don't tell me nonsense about nocebo effect) and also I made no lifestyle changes prior to taking Finasteride and I was in perfect health. So obviously there was only one factor that was the result of my and many many many other people's sides, it's Finasteride which was the culprit.

Also, the only propaganda is the false data from Pro-Finasteride studies that paint it in a far better light than is.

The only Propaganda is the pro-Finasteride studies that overstate the efficacy and understate the side effects.

Also, i didn't say that medical professionals don't know anything, they know the basics, BUT VERY FEW know really in depth knowledge on Finasteride and hairloss drug treatments and side effects.

It is true that they are unaware of many of the current information on the topic.

 

[Moro]

Look at then end of the day, Im not going to get drawn into an argument on whether finasteride is an effective treatment for hair loss, its been on the market for almost 25 years now and is still effective for me after almost 22 years. The ship has sailed on this debate,

If you want to draw the conclusion that finasteride is largely an ineffective treatment for hair loss then be my guest, lets just agree to disagree on that point.

This is an excellent point that I was going to make about the one and only study that I know of.
That and others.
Why hasn't it been replicated yet?
How do you rule out noncebo?
How do you rule out correlation causation?

 

[Micky_007]

This is an excellent point that I was going to make about the one and only study that I know of.
That and others.
Why hasn't it been replicated yet?
How do you rule out noncebo?
How do you rule out correlation causation?

I literally just explained it I my last post. Very easily.

 

[Moro]

I along with many others in this very thread have had undeniable side effects whilst on Finasteride. I started of super positive it would work (so don't tell me nonsense about nocebo effect) and also I made no lifestyle changes prior to taking Finasteride and I was in perfect health. So obviously there was only one factor that was the result of my and many many many other people's sides, it's Finasteride which was the culprit.

Also, the only propaganda is the false data from Pro-Finasteride studies that paint it in a far better light than is.

The only Propaganda is the pro-Finasteride studies that overstate the efficacy and understate the side effects.

Prove that it's because of the drug. You can't.

"The studies I don't like are propaganda." Stop with this anti science garbage.

 

[Micky_007]

Prove that it's because of the drug. You can't.

"The studies I don't like are propaganda." Stop with this anti science garbage.

I literally just explained how I knew + I went to an endocrinologist who confirmed that the only possible cause must have been the only medication I was taking at the time that also coincidentally is known to alter hormones.

You sound like you don't know anything lol.

 

[Micky_007]

Prove that it's because of the drug. You can't.

"The studies I don't like are propaganda." Stop with this anti science garbage.

I repeat, Merck the freaking manufacturer of Propecia has shut down its website for Propecia and has upcoming law suits against it and you think it's just me who has these concerns, lol, even Merck has concerns LOL.

 

[Moro]

I literally just explained it I my last post. Very easily.

The post where just drop a wild claim, don't even attempt to substantiate it, then say that studies equal propaganda? That post?

 

[Moro]

I've also used natural approaches, including scalp massages, natural oils, vitamins (ofcourse these aren't a cure but they do help, a lot). There's actually studies on the benefits of scalp massages.

Oh look at this. The woo woo quackery. That explains quite a lot. Yeah, it is a low standard of evidence. Mmmm gotta get me those natural oils massage in to magic up my hair.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I'm sure you can understand the concept I'm getting at.

Nope my opinion of you hasn't changed

Furthermore, I also used LLLT and PRP before using Finasteride.
Ofcourse LLLT and PRP as anyone who used it would also tell you is useless.

I also have experience going to multiple dermatologists who don't really know much about Finasteride and its true effect on DHT, when I mentioned it to them they were surprised. Also, how I know many dermatologists and doctors know a lot less about Hairloss than very well read individuals on specific topics.

I've also used natural approaches, including scalp massages, natural oils, vitamins (ofcourse these aren't a cure but they do help, a lot). There's actually studies on the benefits of scalp massages.

Everything you have mentioned there is useless accept for vitamins which I already take, do you really have the audacity to list scalp massages and natural oils to somebody that's been on proven treatments for 27 years? come on Micky you are clutching at straws at this point.

Thomas Edison .

So come on then Thomas Edison, please enlighten me with your superior knowledge, what do I do from tomorrow onwards after I ditch finasteride?

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I repeat, Merck the freaking manufacturer of Propecia has shut down its website for Propecia and has upcoming law suits against it and you think it's just me who has these concerns, lol, even Merck has concerns LOL.

Can actually think about what you have written here and rephrase it, as the way you have written it is nonsense.

Also can you please explain to me, why would Merck continue to host a website promoting a product and intellectual property they no longer own?

 

[Micky_007]

The post where just drop a wild claim, don't even attempt to substantiate it, then say that studies equal propaganda? That post?

You seem to have reading problems, I said I went to a endocrinologist, who confirmed it had to have been the Finasteride I was on that was the cause of the problems.

Also, having peak sexual function, having a positive mindset and optimism while taking the drug and suddenly noticing sides, which coincidentally where the same sides that were written on the freaking Propecia leaflet inside the box!

Don't tell me that BS about nocebo affect when I went in with a positive mindset not expecting sides and even after getting sides I went onto hairloss forums which were fulled with Propaganda at the time and advised me to stay on treatment and that the sides are probably all in my head (obviously not true) but I stayed on Finasteride for the full 2 years, the sides never went away whilst I was on it and even still some have not subsided, but you want to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? Lol stfu.

Also, Regarding "confirmation bias", I could flip the exact same argument around and say to you, that you believing some pro-Finasteride study (even if heavily falsified) is your confirmation bias.

 

[Micky_007]

Nope my opinion of you hasn't changed



Easy verything you have mentioned there is useless accept for vitamins which I already take, do you really have the audacity to list scalp massages and natural oils to somebody that's been on proven treatments for 27 years? come on Micky you are clutching at straws at this point.



So come on then Thomas Edison, please enlighten me with your superior knowledge, what do I do from tomorrow onwards after I ditch finasteride?

Your opinion of me has literally ZERO value lol. No one cares what you think of me. Infact you would obviously despise of me because I share polar opposite views to you.

I literally said scalp massages aren't a cure, but there sure as hell help with blood circulation. Do you even know what calcification of the scalp and Hair Follicle is and that scalp massages and Microneedling especially can have a hugely positive effect on it.

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And regarding my advice on what you should do tomorrow, I wouldn't waste it on someone as thick headed and old school as you.

As they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

The only person clutching on straws is you.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Micky are you on the spectrum? because you need to go to some kind of therapy, you have an inability to accept anything unless it has come out of your own mouth, you have zero ability to tell when you are being trolled, you constantly try and prove you know more than anyone else you are talking to, and you don't seam to realize to most people your views come across as those of a retarded moron.

 

[Micky_007]

Micky are you on the spectrum? because you need to go to some kind of therapy, you have an inability to accept anything unless it has come out of your own mouth, you have zero ability to tell when you are being trolled, you constantly try and prove you know more than anyone else you are talking to, and you don't seam to realize to most people your views come across as those of a retarded moron.

The only retarded moron is you. You literally asked advice and said scalp massages is grasping at straws, lol how f*****g dumb can you be? It's a critical part of any hairloss regimen.


Once again trying to hide your lack of knowledge under the guise of "trolling". Weak excuse. You're transparent af old man.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

The only restarted moron is you.

I rest my case

 

[Micky_007]

I rest my case

If you look I instantly edited the spelling before your message was sent now, it's called auto-correct which caused the Typographical error.

Also, it's always the people losing the argument that try to correct grammar.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Once again trying to hide your lack of knowledge

Yes micky you know more than a guy that's been doing this for 27 years..... makes perfect sense, all hail Micky the genius of hairlosstalk, who takes 3 years off treatments and lets his hair deteriorate further, well done, what friggin' genius you are.

You literally asked advice and said scalp massages is grasping at straws, lol how f*****g dumb can you be? It's a critical part of any hairloss regimen.

Mmm im going to scalp massage myself back to a Norwood 0 tonight, Tom Hagerty style. thanks for the tip.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

losing the argument

Yes micky I've really failed.... maintaining my hair for 27 years is a sure sign I've lost the augment to somebody whose hair has been deteriorating for 3 years while on no treatments........So of course you are the real winner here, congratulations your winners medal is in the drain of the shower next to your hair.

 

[Moro]

Micky are you on the spectrum? because you need to go to some kind of therapy, you have an inability to accept anything unless it has come out of your own mouth, you have zero ability to tell when you are being trolled, you constantly try and prove you know more than anyone else you are talking to, and you don't seam to realize to most people your views come across as those of a retarded moron.

This I have to push back on.
Being on the Spectrum isn't some version of broken or incompetence, it's a sweeping generalisation, it's just not true.

I'm sure there are some people on the Spectrum that are incompetent at everything, just as there are some Neurotypicals that are incompetent at everything. But all of them just isn't possible.

I'd say it has more to do with IQ or upbringing.