Why Do People Want Kids? Is It Even Ethical?

[UncleMort]

I love my 2 kids, best thing that ever happened to me. To he fair, when I was younger, I didn't really want kids. Now that I'm nearing 40, I love my family life.

best thing to happen to YOU?

 

[jo123456789]

best thing to happen to YOU?

Yes, that is what I said. Listen, I get you have a different outlook on life. I'm not here to argue.

 

[razzmatazz91]

Can't fault people for fulfilling their biological imperative. Also, it seems most people would just become depressed if they didn't have a family.
To paraphrase Jordan Peterson, if you don't have a wife and kids by 40, you are one lost soul. And only 1 in 1000 or so can be happy otherwise.

 

[UncleMort]

Yes, that is what I said. Listen, I get you have a different outlook on life. I'm not here to argue.

Me either, no offense intended, apologies where required.

But, i am asking a pretty hard question here that nobody wants to even think about.

People have kids for ..........themselves.

 

[CaptainForehead]

Everyone will suffer in their lives to an extent.

The extent is what is being debated here.

Life isn't about being happy, it's about doing what you should be doing despite your limitations, despite your circumstances,

What we "should" be doing? How are these things finalized that "should" be done?

What motivational crap have you been consuming lately.

And if you're defending the idea that existence itself is so deeply corrupt that some people would have been better off if they had never come into existence, then there's definitely some darkness in your soul.

Of course, that's why I'm on this forum

And deep down, you know you don't truly believe that Captain, because if you did, you would already have committed suicide. The fact that you're still alive shows that you actually believe that your existence is worth it.

No, the fact that I'm alive is in large measure due to the fact that I didn't know how shitty my life would turn out to be. How much struggle I would have had. Had I known, I would have strangled myself in the womb (anyone see The Butterfly Effect, directors cut?)

Hope. Hope is what keeps me alive. That my situation will improve. At least for a few years, after which it may decline again due to old age, at which point I will end it.

Hope was the dangling carrot which gave me fuel for my struggles. I'm tired now.

I have decided I will start buying lottery tickets. Anything for hope.

 

[Dontwannabeabetabob]

He did it for himself to leave an heir

Where does ethics come into all of this? Please enlighten me.

 

[CaptainForehead]

So all of these arguments about "my genetics are bad !!" are just an ignorant cope for people trying to justify the fact that they're not having kids.

No. Environment & nutrition play a part, but so do genetics. To a massive extent.

 

[CopeForLife]

Your appearance is a complex combination of genetics and environment. Environment includes not just what clothes you wear and whether or not you work out (lol), but embryonic and early childhood nutrition and love in particular. As an example there's research suggesting that fat kids (and maybe stressed out kids?) will hit puberty earlier, that will change their appearance as adults in a manner that is independent of what most here call "genetics". If you hit puberty earlier you will likely have a different hair distribution (all over your body), a different (shorter) height, and a different frame.

Within your DNA some genes turn on and off. Further the extent to which they're expressing can go up and down within that spectrum by a significant amount.

Now with respect to "the bald gene", I find that concept remarkably scientifically illiterate. It's almost certainly inaccurate. Look around you. People have different patterns of baldness involving DUPA, the temples, the hairline, the crown, and diffuse thinning (at the very least), each diffusing at different rates., so there's a diversity of progression speeds and final patterns. We also have (very !!!) different responses to finasteride and minoxidil implying a diversity of mechanisms in play. There is almost certainly no "baldness gene", but rather an interaction between a large number of genes. There was actually a study posted here a while back (I just remembered) showing that several hundred genes might be involved in baldness.

Given that there are several hundred genes involved, and that baldness its very common in the general population, it's the case that ... probably everybody has some bald genes. Separately from that there won't be any baldness in thirty years so it's a moot point. Separately from that it's not the most important feature that defines you.

So all of these arguments about "my genetics are bad !!" are just an ignorant cope for people trying to justify the fact that they're not having kids. The real reason is that they either can't have kids (due to being undesired, infertile, etc) or that they don't want the constraint on their lifestyle, they want to keep living their 20s until their 60s rather than carpooling to Kumon and Karate practice. That's fine, but just say the truth.

Didn't read but will it help to eliminate my bald gene?

I got it from the father so I'd have a son (or daughter and she will have a grandson) and he will get it just like me what should I say him?

– Sorry, son, I tried to gamble genetically but outcome isn't what I expected haha m8 shave it *sips coffee*

All these arguments you provided seems like mental gymnastics and justification of selfishness to having subhuman offsprings who not only destined to suffer diseases like every human being and eventually death but flawed genetics and low quality life because some incel decided to gamble and see how his subhuman set of genes will recombine (usually with some fat ugly woman, of course).

All these hypocrites reminds me "I will have a child regardless I have a genetical {disease_name}, because the cure will be found during his lifetime!!!".

Look at f*****g Mitt Romney's sons and average Joe and you will see a difference in outcome among subhumans genetical trash and superior genetic bearers.

 

[SmoothSailing]

Most people want to give their child a better life than they themselves had, and often believe they are capable of this. Thus even if they had a shitty life they can justify having a child quite easily by believing their kid will have it better.

The species would be much much better off if only the genetically superior procreated, and if we had a much lower population.

But who does everything for the betterment of the species?

We are all selfish, and there's nothing wrong with that, that's who we are.

 

[CaptainForehead]

Ah well, I sense that a comment about my height and looks is coming .

That is precisely my point. You have attributes which facilitate achieving some of the things on the list.

I'm not discounting your struggles, I respect your achievements; but for many getting a decent GF is exponentially harder.

You have only one friend right? The muslim dude.

 

[CaptainForehead]

Two very close friends: the Muslim dude and the Belgian racist alcoholic football hooligan, that strikes a nice balance .

How long have you been friends for? How did you meet and get to know each other?

 

[buckthorn]

Everyone has to figure that out for themselves.

No one else can know what you should do in life.

But if you want a safe template, here's what should be part of your plan:

- Having a routine
- Remaining physically active
- Having a job
- Having friends
- Having a partner
- Having hobbies
- Building a family

I know it sounds like motivational crap, but what is your alternative?

I would have laughed at such advice a few years ago but:

- I didn't have a routine
- I wasn't doing any sport
- I had no job
- I was either single or treating my girlfriends badly
- My family was a mess

So the question here is, you say my advice is empty motivational nonsense, but have you actually tried to implement it?

Ah well, I sense that a comment about my height and looks is coming .

I hate to say this, but as much as I emotionally rant, this is absolutely right. Routine is what keeps us sane. Sport is what satisfies and enhances our animal side, hobbies increase patience and focus, having a family and friends make us human. There is no denying all of this. Having a "partner", I am still very conflicted on. I will not argue though, it is indeed human nature to seek one.

 

[buckthorn]

Most people want to give their child a better life than they themselves had, and often believe they are capable of this.

perfectly said

 

[buckthorn]

Ethics should be 100% involved in decision to have a child. If you are incapable of creating a decent, financially stable life for a child, raise them in a safe environment and provide them mental and emotional growth, then of course you should reconsider. It shouldn't be a, "oh everything will work out for the best" plan. f***, some people shouldn't even own dogs. It is NOT every one's right to breed. Or at least, it shouldn't be. Own a house in the ghetto where the tenants baby is crawling with bed bugs, has an overflowing diaper, and is literally left alone for hours at a time. You'll see. So, why can't genetics be involved in this situation? Different life of course, perhaps just a different hell.

 

[CaptainForehead]

High school, I've been friends with the Belgian one for 14 years and the Muslim one for 13 years.

Makes sense again. It is difficult to form friendships IRL as you get older. How does a man open up in adult life about his insecurities to a stranger? Real friends are much harder for those of us who've had to move cities/countries as adults.

 

[kj6723]

Makes sense again. It is difficult to form friendships IRL as you get older. How does a man open up in adult life about his insecurities to a stranger? Real friends are much harder for those of us who've had to move cities/countries as adults.

My issue is that my close friends are getting married, having kids, and becoming borderline impossible to get in touch with

Meanwhile I am perpetually single

 

[CaptainForehead]

I know what you mean, even the friend I tried to reconnect with, we had met at the age of 16 and were were quite close for a while.

I sometimes have deep conversations with some of my colleagues but we're always aware of the boundaries. We're coworkers and we'll just never be friends, but that can happen for some people of course.

Even they have their own friends that they usually also met in high school. I'm really glad I got that area of my life right early on.

My best friends are invaluable to me, that's why I'm very confused and sad to see one of them go off the grid without notice.

Now when my Muslim friend gets married... I don't expect him to be around much longer either.

So I could very well find myself in your position in a few years.

Hope the Belgian friend is ok (have you tried emailing, texting?)

 

[Janko]

Everyone has to figure that out for themselves.

No one else can know what you should do in life.

But if you want a safe template, here's what should be part of your plan:

- Having a routine
- Remaining physically active
- Having a job
- Having friends
- Having a partner
- Having hobbies
- Building a family

I know it sounds like motivational crap, but what is your alternative?

I would have laughed at such advice a few years ago but:

- I didn't have a routine
- I wasn't doing any sport
- I had no job
- I was either single or treating my girlfriends badly
- My family was a mess

So the question here is, you say my advice is empty motivational nonsense, but have you actually tried to implement it?

Ah well, I sense that a comment about my height and looks is coming .

You tagged the wrong person, man this is not my citation

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Didn't read

Summarized for convenience.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

So, why can't genetics be involved in this situation?

As before, due to ignorance of genetics, the eugenics arguments presented here are nonsense.

"I have bald relatives, so I shouldn't procreate" ... that's a cope.