Why you go bald...............the two genes that do it.....

[michael barry]

Male-pattern baldness susceptibility locus at 20p11

Nat Genet. 2008 Nov;40(11):1282-4

We conducted a genome-wide association study for androgenic alopecia in 1,125 men and identified a newly associated locus at chromosome 20p11.22, confirmed in three independent cohorts (n = 1,650; OR = 1.60, P = 1.1 x 10(-14) for rs1160312). The one man in seven who harbors risk alleles at both 20p11.22 and AR (encoding the androgen receptor) has a sevenfold-increased odds of androgenic alopecia (OR = 7.12, P = 3.7 x 10(-15)).



If you have those two genes................you are sevenfold more likely to go bald. The second study group had over 1500 caucasoid men in it, because I seen that one. There are a couple of more genes that have been correlated with pattern baldness, but these are clearly "the big two".

Chromsome 20 is involved with other problammatic disorders like type 1 diabetes and celiac disease and five or six other "bad" things. It has about 9000 genes on it though. The androgen receptor gene alone isn't enough to make you go bald, but 98.6% of bald men have the particular variant of the androgen receptor gene, vs. 76.1% of non-balding men. There were something 5000 men in that study.


Its nice to know that science at least has identified what genes you have that cause it though. It ain't big pillows, sebum, edema, skull expansion, blow dryers, short haircuts, long hair, shampooing, wind, lack of wind, combs or any of the assorted garbage Ive seen bandied about on these sites for years.

 

[tembo]

It could still be masturbation though.

 

[Armando Jose]

www.twin-research.ac.uk/Publicatons/200 ... s.2008.pdf

Armando

 

[NaS]

how would i go about getting this test done?

 

[s.a.f]

Its nice to know that science at least has identified what genes you have that cause it though. It ain't big pillows, sebum, edema, skull expansion, blow dryers, short haircuts, long hair, shampooing, wind, lack of wind, combs or any of the assorted garbage Ive seen bandied about on these sites for years.

You are a liar !!!!!! :nono:
Everyone knows that its due to the western diet of high carbs and animal fats !!! :mrgreen: (Joking BTW)

 

[wookster]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/83676/page/1

However, that view is far from accurate too. Within the staggeringly long sequences of DNA, it turns out that only a tiny percentage of letters actually form the words that constitute genes and serve as code for proteins. More than 95 percent of DNA, instead, is "non-coding." Much of DNA simply constitutes on and off switches for regulating the activity of genes. It's like you have a 100-page book, and 95 of the pages are instructions and advice for reading the other five pages. Thus, genes don't independently determine when proteins are synthesized. They follow instructions originating somewhere else.

What regulates those switches? In some instances, chemical messengers from other parts of the cell. In other cases, messengers from other cells in the body (this is the way many hormones work). And, critically, in still other cases, genes are turned on or off by environmental factors. As a crude example, some carcinogens work by getting into cells, binding to one of those DNA switches and turning on genes that cause the uncontrolled growth that constitutes cancer. Or a mother rat licking and grooming her infant will initiate a cascade of events that eventually turns on genes related to growth in that child. Or the smell of a female in heat will activate genes in certain male primates related to reproduction. Or a miserably stressful day of final exams will activate genes in a typical college student that will suppress the immune system, often leading to a cold or worse.

You can't dissociate genes from the environment that turns genes on and off. And you can't dissociate the effects of genes from the environment in which proteins exert their effects. The study of genetics will never be so all encompassing as to gobble up every subject from medicine to sociology. Instead, the more science learns about genes, the more we will learn about the importance of the environment. That goes for real life, too: genes are essential but not the whole story.

 

[michael barry]

Good grief.



Lemmee see................scientist conduct tests on THOUSANDS of men, and conclude that men who have a particular variant of the androgen receptor, and some genes at the 20,11,22 locus on chromosome 20 are something like 700% more likely to go bald.



And out of that Wook is STILL insisting on "environmental factors".



My dad is bald, but his brother, just three years younger, has ALL OF HIS HAIR in his 50's. Grew up in the same house, used the same shampoos, eat the same stuff. My dad's brother HAS DIABETES ALSO. That thick thatchy head of hair he has always had is still up there.



My mother's father was bald from his thirties onward, yet his son (my uncle from that side) has all his hair in his fifties, with no recession or thinning. A head of hair like Blagoyovich, but with much better styling. He is overweight, probably boderline diabetic.





ITS SAD that some people want to blame themselves for baldness, and refuse to believe that inheriting two genes in particular are what gives them the condition. There may be a couple of more genes involved, but obviously as the researchers noted: these are the two primary genes.



Stumptailed macaques, chimpanzees, orangutans.........................what environmental factors would THEY have that makes them so oft lose their hair on top of their heads? Why is finasteride effective for them? Why is finasteride effective for humans? The researchers dont have it wrong Wook. They have it exactly right. Baldness assuredly gets exacerbated by lifestyle choices and sped up, but its utterly genetic in origin and healthy eating people do indeed go bald. Look at Joseph Mercola, a health nut if there ever was one, and bald as a beet.

 

[JWM]

A head of hair like Blagoyovich, but with much better styling.

:laugh:

 

[wookster]

ITS SAD that some people want to blame themselves for baldness, and refuse to believe that inheriting two genes in particular are what gives them the condition. There may be a couple of more genes involved, but obviously as the researchers noted: these are the two primary genes.

Well, I hope you are correct and those two genetic phenomena are the "smoking gun" deterministic factors you so desperately seek.

But I fear that there are going to be some men with normal testosterone levels and with both of those gene factors that still have a full head of hair. There will also be some people who do not have those genetic variants, yet still go bald.

But maybe not. :dunno:

 

[michael barry]

Wook,

Look on chromosome 20, and see the other maladies that are associated with it. Pay attention to celiac disease (you might want to read up on that). If Androgenic alopecia is 'set off' by anything dietarily, that might be it. Celiac is an immune disorder in which the body attacks a protien found in wheat, barley, rye called gluten. This means bread, pasta, beer, bourbon, vodka, vinegars distilled from wheat sources (which means ketchup, mustard, about every seasoning sauce there is), soy sauce, pita bread, etc. alll might induce a immune response. About 3-4 million Americans have this disorder, but much like many people are "somewhat" diabetic, or "boredreline" diabetic, there are probably many many more people who are "mildly" celiac. Since what we eat is "in" our hair (think about drug tests that take hair samples to see what drugs you have taken), perhaps THIS is what is in the infidula that the immune system attacks in Androgenetic Alopecia. Its a longshot.

Most of the damage in Androgenetic Alopecia is immunologically mediated. The inflammation is up there at the top of the skin, where the keratinocytes are made and upwards. The collagen gets deposited back under the papilla, but that is not where the inflammation is. Why? Its almost assuredly either DKK_1 killing keratinocyte cells, leaving dead cells still "in" the body that elicits this response, or something else in this area. I dont think its microbials or anything, because anti-microbial shampoos have been around for a while and some other one would have shown hair regrowth by now other than nizoral.


wikipedia has a good article about the disorders associated with chromosome 20. You might want to check that out.

 

[wookster]

Wook,

Look on chromosome 20, and see the other maladies that are associated with it. Pay attention to celiac disease (you might want to read up on that). If Androgenic alopecia is 'set off' by anything dietarily, that might be it. Celiac is an immune disorder in which the body attacks a protien found in wheat, barley, rye called gluten. This means bread, pasta, beer, bourbon, vodka, vinegars distilled from wheat sources (which means ketchup, mustard, about every seasoning sauce there is), soy sauce, pita bread, etc. alll might induce a immune response. About 3-4 million Americans have this disorder, but much like many people are "somewhat" diabetic, or "boredreline" diabetic, there are probably many many more people who are "mildly" celiac. Since what we eat is "in" our hair (think about drug tests that take hair samples to see what drugs you have taken), perhaps THIS is what is in the infidula that the immune system attacks in Androgenetic Alopecia. Its a longshot.

Most of the damage in Androgenetic Alopecia is immunologically mediated. The inflammation is up there at the top of the skin, where the keratinocytes are made and upwards. The collagen gets deposited back under the papilla, but that is not where the inflammation is. Why? Its almost assuredly either DKK_1 killing keratinocyte cells, leaving dead cells still "in" the body that elicits this response, or something else in this area. I dont think its microbials or anything, because anti-microbial shampoos have been around for a while and some other one would have shown hair regrowth by now other than nizoral.


wikipedia has a good article about the disorders associated with chromosome 20. You might want to check that out.

Thanks for that good information Michael Barry

Yes, giving up wheat is one of the best things I ever did in terms of feeling good and healthy. Some people are not very good with eating wheat products.

Wheat and other carbs causes me to gain water weight and increases my blood pressure.

Echos of Foote's theory still reverberate throuought the hairloss world? :dunno:

 

[treeshrew]

giving up wheat is one of the best things I ever did in terms of feeling good and healthy.

giving up wheat? for me it was getting plenty of sleep and exercise.

 

[wookster]

giving up wheat is one of the best things I ever did in terms of feeling good and healthy.

giving up wheat? for me it was getting plenty of sleep and exercise.

http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/results.php?storyarticle=889

Hyperinsulinemia can be caused by insulin resistance, which creates elevated glucose levels due to glucose intolerance. The pancreas tries to correct this by massively increasing insulin production, which leaves high levels of serum insulin that are not utilized. One of the many effects of this over production is the increased re-absorption of sodium by the kidneys.[vi] This causes increased extracellular fluid volume, which will demand greater cardiac output and raise blood pressure. There are also several other pathways in which sustained elevated levels of insulin can stimulate the sympathetic nervous system and increase peripheral vascular resistance and raise blood pressure.

Figuring out the connection between chromosome 20, hyperinsulemia, metabolic syndrome, and male pattern baldness is just a confusing jumble of numbers right now :dunno:

 

[wookster]

http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/gene-detectives-solve-baldness-mystery-20081013-4zdm.html

Gene detectives say they have netted two genetic variants that boost the risk of male baldness sevenfold.

The two variants are located on a stretch of DNA on Chromosome 20, according to a study carried out on 1,125 men of European descent.

"These variants are present in one in seven Caucasian men and provide novel insights into the cause of this common and sometimes distressing condition," the team said.

Previous research has determined that male pattern baldness - also known as androgenic alopecia - has a highly genetic origin. Heritability accounts for 80 per cent of cases.

[...]

Baldness is also associated with an array of health problems, including coronary heart disease and hypertension in men and polycystic ovarian syndrome and insulin resistance in women.

The reasons are unclear, but one theory is that some of the genes involved in hair loss also play a role in the molecular mechanisms for these diseases.

The newly-identified variants on the p11 stretch of Chromosome 20 add to telltale genes, located in the X chromosome, that are receptors for the hormone androgen.

 

[michael barry]

Some more info on chromosome 20, and associated disorders that stem from genes on it:



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Chromosome 20 (human)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Chromosome 20)
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This article includes a list of references or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations. Please improve this article by introducing more precise citations where appropriate. (February 2008)

Chromosome 20 is one of the 23 pairs of chromosomes in humans. People normally have two copies of this chromosome. Chromosome 20 spans around 63 million base pairs (the building material of DNA) and represents between 2 and 2.5 percent of the total DNA in cells.

Identifying genes on each chromosome is an active area of genetic research. Because researchers use different approaches to predict the number of genes on each chromosome, the estimated number of genes varies. Chromosome 20 contains over 900 genes. New discoveries have recently linked this chromosome to the increasing susceptability to male-pattern baldness.


[edit] Genes
The following are some of the genes located on chromosome 20:

EDN3: endothelin 3
JAG1: jagged 1 (Alagille syndrome)
PANK2: pantothenate kinase 2 (Hallervorden-Spatz syndrome)
PRNP: prion protein (p27-30) (Creutzfeld-Jakob disease, Gerstmann-Strausler-Scheinker syndrome, fatal familial insomnia)
tTG:tissue transglutaminase (Celiac disease)
AHCY: S-adenosylhomocysteine hydrolase
ARFGEF2: ADP-ribosylation factor guanine nucleotide-exchange factor 2 (brefeldin A-inhibited)
GSS: glutathione synthetase
SALL4: sal-like 4 (Drosophila)
VAPB: VAMP (vesicle-associated membrane protein)-associated protein B and C
BMP2: Bone Morphogenetic Protein 2 (osteoblast differentiation)
GNAS1: Gs alpha subunit (membrane G-protein)

[edit] Diseases & disorders
The following diseases are some of those related to genes on chromosome 20:

Adenosine deaminase deficiency
Alagille syndrome
Celiac disease
Maturity onset diabetes of the young type 1
Pantothenate kinase-associated neurodegeneration
Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (prion diseases)
Waardenburg syndrome
[edit] References

 

[S Foote.]

Good grief.



Lemmee see................scientist conduct tests on THOUSANDS of men, and conclude that men who have a particular variant of the androgen receptor, and some genes at the 20,11,22 locus on chromosome 20 are something like 700% more likely to go bald.

So this is the "difference" in genetic make up that ends up creating male pattern baldness follicles? male pattern baldness "resistent" follicles dont also have this SAME make up then??

Remember Michael, the theory you support "HAS" to have some difference in Pre-existing genetic status of male pattern baldness follicles and "normal" scalp follicles.

Are you claiming this is it?

S Foote.

 

[Armando Jose]

[quote="michael barry":1h5mlqom]Good grief.



Lemmee see................scientist conduct tests on THOUSANDS of men, and conclude that men who have a particular variant of the androgen receptor, and some genes at the 20,11,22 locus on chromosome 20 are something like 700% more likely to go bald.

So this is the "difference" in genetic make up that ends up creating male pattern baldness follicles? male pattern baldness "resistent" follicles dont also have this SAME make up then??

Remember Michael, the theory you support "HAS" to have some difference in Pre-existing genetic status of male pattern baldness follicles and "normal" scalp follicles.

Are you claiming this is it?

S Foote.[/quote:1h5mlqom]

As usual Mr Foote brings us common sense.

Good question anyway.

Armando

 

[michael barry]

Male-pattern baldness susceptibility locus at 20p11

Nat Genet. 2008 Nov;40(11):1282-4

We conducted a genome-wide association study for androgenic alopecia in 1,125 men and identified a newly associated locus at chromosome 20p11.22, confirmed in three independent cohorts (n = 1,650; OR = 1.60, P = 1.1 x 10(-14) for rs1160312). The one man in seven who harbors risk alleles at both 20p11.22 and AR (encoding the androgen receptor) has a sevenfold-increased odds of androgenic alopecia (OR = 7.12, P = 3.7 x 10(-15)).

HairSite Admin



09.12.2008, 10:47

@ HairSite Admin Male-pattern baldness susceptibility locus at 20p11Post reply
Genome-wide scan and fine-mapping linkage study of androgenetic alopecia reveals a locus on chromosome 3q26.

Am J Hum Genet. 2008 Mar;82(3):737-43

Androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia, male pattern baldness) is the most common form of hair loss. The origin of Androgenetic Alopecia is genetic, with the X chromosome located androgen receptor gene (AR) being the only risk gene identified to date. We present the results of a genome-wide linkage study of 95 families and linkage fine mapping of the 3q21-q29, 11q14-q25, 18p11-q23, and 19p13-q13 regions in an extended sample of 125 families of German descent. The locus with strongest evidence for linkage was mapped to 3q26 with a nonparametric linkage (NPL) score of 3.97 (empirical p value = 0.00055). This is the first step toward the identification of new susceptibility genes in Androgenetic Alopecia, a process which will provide important insights into the molecular and cellular basis of scalp hair loss.




Seven times more suceptible with these two genes. Thats profoundly statistically signifigant. Someone who wont accept that, wont accept anything. The variant of the A-receptor ALONE is not enough to produce baldness according to another article I read. There has to be both these genes present.

 

[wookster]

Seven times more suceptible with these two genes. Thats profoundly statistically signifigant. Someone who wont accept that, wont accept anything. The variant of the A-receptor ALONE is not enough to produce baldness according to another article I read. There has to be both these genes present.

There are more than just two genes involved in baldness. It is not that simple. :hairy:

 

[wookster]

https://www.merck.com/mmpe/print/sec22/ch327/ch327c.html

Expressivity is the extent to which a gene is expressed in one person. It can be graded as a percentage; eg, when a gene has 50% expressivity, only half the features are present or the severity is only half of what can occur with full expression. Expressivity may be influenced by the environment and by other genes, so people with the same gene may vary in phenotype. Expressivity can vary even among members of the same family.