Abstinence is the major weapon in defeating hair loss!!!!

[californiaoceans911]

So, prove it.
Show us the study which studied DHT after ejaculation

I don't have to, you have the burden of proof. You guys are the ones claiming NOFAP lowers DHT and therefore stops hair loss. I base my courses of action on proven methods. To me it's the same as religion, doing something with the hope/faith/blahblah that it's true. To me it's just silly to deprive oneself from ejaculation, so my gf and I will continue to have sex as often as we can....because....you know, life was meant to be enjoyed. You guys can continue to deprive yourselves and go around dribbling jizz after you pee. LMAO, seeing that made my morning.

My friend...DHT is not by any means a complete explanation of the balding mechanism...
Please stop acting like the scientist here, dude.
What scientist, in lack of arguments, starts insulting?
No, my dear, that comment of you was not clever at all "bla bla scientists research for a long timeand if it were a connection they would have discovered it". You can't convince even a kindergarten kid with such arguments..
I've given you the example with cancer, scientist also study cancer for a long time, and yet the mortality cause by this disease is only increasing at most cancers.
Like scientist know all or discovered everything...
I don;t blame scientists at all, but there are loads of things they still haven't explained or figured out. So don's present sceintists like some miraculous dudes who can figure put anything, cause it's not. They simply kind of grope in the dark, most of the time. Don't you see minoxidil and finasteride were discovered by mistake as working for hair loss, they were devised mainly for other purposes. Wtf? We don;t even know the exact mechanism of action for minoxidil in hair loss, a medicine discovered almost 35 years ago...

And, speaking of hair loss vs sex, do you have a study or more that concluded there isn't any connection? Please share it then and put an end to the problem once and for all.
And don't tell us you need a Phd at MIT to conclude that, if there isn't a convincing study proving the fact F, that means F is completeley false. It may be false, but it also may be true, or partially true, or true in some conditions, even if nobody proved it or understood it.
Wtf? We don;t even know the exact mechanism of action for minoxidil, a medicine discovered almost 35 years ago...

You may be right that all the mechanisms may not be known, but the claim that was made in this thread was that NOFAP lowered DHT, for which there is absolutely no proof. If you want to still do NOFAP, read the argument above. You guys keep making the argument of "Do you have a study or more that concluded X?" and my answer is NO. That's why I don't go around trying every little BS fad that comes up. YOU are the ones making claims, YOU need to show proof. This thread reminds me of the Southpark Book of Mormon episode lol "dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb".

 

[maher]

I don't have to, you have the burden of proof. You guys are the ones claiming NOFAP lowers DHT and therefore stops hair loss.
..".

Are you familiar with Greek study? they proved increase of DHT by 1.36nmol/l by at least one orgasm/weekly.

 

[drgs]

You may be right that all the mechanisms may not be known, but the claim that was made in this thread was that NOFAP lowered DHT, for which there is absolutely no proof. If you want to still do NOFAP, read the argument above. You guys keep making the argument of "Do you have a study or more that concluded X?" and my answer is NO.

For the hard of hearing:
What you are saying is because we have no proof that nofap lowers DHT, the opposite must absolutely and conclusively be true, everything else is a mistake and we should end this thread

Sit down, MIT Phd, D minus

 

[californiaoceans911]

For the hard of hearing:
What you are saying is because we have no proof that nofap lowers DHT, the opposite must absolutely and conclusively be true, everything else is a mistake and we should end this thread

Sit down, MIT Phd, D minus

For the completely incompetent:

Not what I am saying, please try reading my post. I clearly just stated that I think it is dumb to stop masturbating based on something that isn't proven. Sit down dumb dumb. Keep up the NOFAP lmao. The majority of men want to keep their hair so they are more attractive to women. What is the point if you're just going to abstain from sex. It's an ***-backward method to keeping your hair.


Maher: No I have not heard of the Greek study, but a 1.36 nmol/L increase would mean that an average male's DHT would have doubled. Can you post the name of the study? I am at a university and can pull up the paper for free and read it.

 

[drgs]

For the completely incompetent:

Not what I am saying, please try reading my post. I clearly just stated that I think it is dumb to stop masturbating based on something that isn't proven. Sit down dumb dumb. Keep up the NOFAP lmao. The majority of men want to keep their hair so they are more attractive to women. What is the point if you're just going to abstain from sex. It's an ***-backward method to keeping your hair.

Can you strain that little walnut of yours and extend that thought -- that the people who practice it are single?

And, as the name implies NoFap is about no masturbation, sex is different

 

[xRedStaRx]

Are you familiar with Greek study? they proved increase of DHT by 1.36nmol/l by at least one orgasm/weekly.

For the hard of hearing:
What you are saying is because we have no proof that nofap lowers DHT, the opposite must absolutely and conclusively be true, everything else is a mistake and we should end this thread

Sit down, MIT Phd, D minus

The fluctuating effects of ejaculation on testosterone and DHT levels are insignificant, for several reasons.

1) These hormones fluctuate wildly in nature, ceasing from ejaculation will not change that.

2) The change in hormone levels following ejaculation are short-lived. They mean absolutely nothing. Hair follicles miniaturize under the effects of DHT from years under cumulative androgenic exposure. Just like a short 2-3 week steroid cycle will not make you lose hair, the same principle applies here. You are nit-picking trivial matters. The big picture still remains, if you are predisposed to balding, good luck cutting out fapping or eating strawberries to stop it.

 

[maher]

Why would you stop having sex? do you have sex with a women 2-3x/day, 7days a week?? I dont think so- maybe on your honey-moon. Its a huge difference if you have 40-50/orgasms a month in contrast with 4-6.

For the completely incompetent:

Not what I am saying, please try reading my post. I clearly just stated that I think it is dumb to stop masturbating based on something that isn't proven. Sit down dumb dumb. Keep up the NOFAP lmao. The majority of men want to keep their hair so they are more attractive to women. What is the point if you're just going to abstain from sex. It's an ***-backward method to keeping your hair.


Maher: No I have not heard of the Greek study, but a 1.36 nmol/L increase would mean that an average male's DHT would have doubled. Can you post the name of the study? I am at a university and can pull up the paper for free and read it.

It doesnt work like that.lol. Its not like linear math model.

- - - Updated - - -

The fluctuating effects of ejaculation on testosterone and DHT levels are insignificant, for several reasons.

1) These hormones fluctuate wildly in nature, ceasing from ejaculation will not change that.

2) The change in hormone levels following ejaculation are short-lived. They mean absolutely nothing. Hair follicles miniaturize under the effects of DHT from years under cumulative androgenic exposure. Just like a short 2-3 week steroid cycle will not make you lose hair, the same principle applies here. You are nit-picking trivial matters. The big picture still remains, if you are predisposed to balding, good luck cutting out fapping or eating strawberries to stop it.

..:woot: Buddy,. stick with the finasteride-BroScience.

 

[drgs]

The fluctuating effects of ejaculation on testosterone and DHT levels are insignificant, for several reasons.

1) These hormones fluctuate wildly in nature, ceasing from ejaculation will not change that.

Yes it will

2) The change in hormone levels following ejaculation are short-lived. They mean absolutely nothing

Yes they do


Next question

 

[xRedStaRx]

Yes it will


Yes they do


Next question

I was stating facts for you to digest, not questions to answer.

 

[californiaoceans911]

Found the publications which support this "increase in DHT after masturbation business":

Relevant authors: Fox et al., Purvis et al., Knussmann and Christiansen, and several others.

From Knussmann et al.:

Sexual Stimulation and Arousal:

Our findings show a positive relation between stimulation and Tser along with indications of a positive relation between arousal and Tser when the comparison refers to the period prior to taking the sample. In contrast, no substantial relations were found with respect to the period following a sample....If the diachronic aspect is disregarded and the individuals are compared to one another, then our data give only an insignificant indication: It appears that those individuals who are generallymore stimulated and whose erection times are on the average, longer, possess higher T levels (Tser and Tsal) than do those with less stimulation and arousal. Opposite relations appear to hold with DHT and E2.

Frequency of Orgasms:

From the total samples of blood and saliva, positive relations are seen between the hormone concentrations and both the preceding and subsequent frequency of orgasms; this is especially pronounced with Tser and Tsal. However, both intra- and interindividual variability enter into this finding. Restricted to the intraindividual changes the only positive relation is between Tser and the subsequent orgasms. The most obvious interpretation is that sexual motivation depends upon the daily level of Tser. The results of a study by Doering et al. (1974), though less distinct, point in the same direction. In contrast, Kraemer et al. (1976) found that Tser exhibited a significantly positive relation to the preceding orgasms but not to the subsequent.

Several other authors have designed their experiments in a reversed order; they compared the hormone levels before and after the occurrence of an orgasm. No significant differences in Tse r levels before and after coitus were found (Fox et al., 1972; Lee, Jaffe, and Midgley, 1974; Stearns, Winter, and Faiman, 1973). Fox et al. also found that masturbation (leading to orgasm) did not effect a change in Tser levels, whereas Purvis et al. (1976) measured a significant increase in Tser, DHT, and E2 following masturbation. The discrepancies between these findings, which were obtained using only a few individuals (1-8), may be explained by the effects of chance or by differing attitudes among the subjects. For example, sexual activity may be perceived
as stimulating (see above), but it can also mean physical exertion, and this can bring about changes in hormone levels (Christiansen et al., 1985; Nieschlag, 1979).

Our sample exhibits a closer relation between androgen levels and the frequency of orgasms interindividually than intraindividually. On the average, those subjects who normally possess a relatively high Tse r concen- tration also experience significantly more orgasms than the others. In comparison, Doering et al. (1974) and Kraemer et al. (1976) found a significantly negative interindividual correlation between Tser and the average frequency of orgasms; other authors have been unable to determine any Sex Hormone Levels and Sexual Behavior 443 significant relations between the two (Brown et al., 1978; Monti, Brown, and Corriveau, 1977; Persky et al., 1978). Davidson et al. (1983) found a significantly positive correlation between free testosterone and the average frequency of orgasms, a result that points in the same direction as our own. The same authors found no notable interindividual correlations between E2 and the frequency of orgasms, another result in agreement with our own.



I believe Purvis et al. is the Greek author you're speaking of, and as it turns out his findings that masturbation increase DHT, Tser, and E2 were based on less than 8 subjects...

 

[xRedStaRx]

For the no-fap believers in treating hair loss. You should be more considered about the relationship between masturbation, Prolactin spikes and their sustainable levels above baseline, and Prolactin's negative effects on hair growth. At least in that case, you might have an argument.

 

[maher]

I believe Purvis et al. is the Greek author you're speaking of, and as it turns out his findings that masturbation increase DHT, Tser, and E2 were based on less than 8 subjects...

O man, thats great- another study that supports nofap theory. Actually, I meant this- done on 100 subjects:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2549675/pdf/bmj00593-0017.pdf

- - - Updated - - -

For the no-fap believers in treating hair loss. You should be more considered about the relationship between masturbation, Prolactin spikes and their sustainable levels above baseline, and Prolactin's negative effects on hair growth. At least in that case, you might have an argument.

That has been debated. just like DHT, PGD2..Whats the point. Like trying to convince junkie to quit heroin.

 

[californiaoceans911]

O man, thats great- another study that supports nofap theory. Actually, I meant this- done on 100 subjects:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2549675/pdf/bmj00593-0017.pdf

I assume you're being sarcastic, but who knows. The study clearly does not support nofap, they're basically discrediting the publication based on the ridiculously small data pool. Having <8 subjects in a study like that is like trying to curve-fit two data points on a plot lol.


I read the article you linked, and I'm not sure if you have or anyone else has, but clearly the author is making the claim that the number of orgasms depends on the concentration of DHT, not the other way around.

 

[maher]

I read the article you linked, and I'm not sure if you have or anyone else has, but clearly the author is making the claim that the number of orgasms depends on the concentration of DHT, not the other way around.

Think about it... the more you masturbate, more DHT-> more DHT, more you masturbate.

 

[californiaoceans911]

Think about it... the more you masturbate, more DHT-> more DHT, more you masturbate.

*FACE PALM* NO. JUST NO.

Just because DHT---->More you masturbate, that does not mean More you masturbate---->DHT


That's like saying If you're head explodes---->You die, thus If you die---->Your head explodes.



EDIT: Also, according to this thread's logic I could also claim that the more you abstain from masturbation, the more horny you get.....thus abstinence causes a rise in DHT. :jump:

 

[maher]

*FACE PALM* NO. JUST NO.

Just because DHT---->More you masturbate, that does not mean More you masturbate---->DHT


That's like saying If you're head explodes---->You die, thus If you die---->Your head explodes.



EDIT: Also, according to this thread's logic I could also claim that the more you abstain from masturbation, the more horny you get.....thus abstinence causes a rise in DHT. :jump:

Wrong. everything. Read the thread! Original thread also. Guys on lowT forum posts blood test results. Significant drop of DHT after nofap practice. By abstaining, DHT production is normalized.

 

[californiaoceans911]

Wrong. everything. Read the thread! Original thread also. Guys on lowT forum posts blood test results. Significant drop of DHT after nofap practice. By abstaining, DHT production is normalized.

No everything I said was definitely correct, unless you believe that every time someone dies their head explodes.

I keep citing scientific papers and you have provided one anecdote of someone having a reduced DHT level. This could be a total fluke. Depending on the time of day tested, food intake, and a number of environmental factors his DHT level could have varied greatly. Your proof isn't proof, it's anecdote.

 

[maher]

No everything I said was definitely correct, unless you believe that every time someone dies their head explodes.

I keep citing scientific papers and you have provided one anecdote of someone having a reduced DHT level. This could be a total fluke. Depending on the time of day tested, food intake, and a number of environmental factors his DHT level could have varied greatly. Your proof isn't proof, it's anecdote.

What papers? I produced Harvard study.

Fluke??you serious. The subjects were army recruits, age 18-22. They all eat, ****, exercise, sleep simultaneously. In fact, its ideal study sample.
I'm done arguing with you.

 

[californiaoceans911]

What papers? I produced Harvard study.

Fluke??you serious. The subjects were army recruits, age 18-22. They all eat, ****, exercise, sleep simultaneously. In fact, its ideal study sample.
I'm done arguing with you.

You need to read clearly before you reply. I didn't call the study a fluke I was calling the guy you sourced in another thread that stated his DHT level dropped after nofap. I now read that you said GUYS not GUY, so my bad on that one. Still, this isn't a controlled experiment, it's anecdotal evidence from forum posters.

I think the study you posted was actually a reputable paper. Although, you should know that it wasn't a Harvard study, per say. It was a Greek military study, the 3rd author was from Harvard. Authors are always listed from most contributing to least contributing. Basically the first author is likely to have done most of the legwork. Even still, I like the paper, it is a good paper.

HOWEVER, note that the title reads:

Contribution of dihydrotestosterone to male sexual behaviour.


NOT
Contribution of male sexual behavior to dihydrotestosterone

Nowhere in the paper do the authors claim that orgasms lead to an increase in DHT. I mean, for God's sake, the key messages are written in lay english in a huge box in the conclusions section:

 

[maher]

It should be:

Contribution of male sexual behavior to dihydrotestosterone

:

Endocrine effects of masturbation in men.

Purvis K, Landgren BM, Cekan Z, Diczfalusy E.
Abstract

The levels of pregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHA), androstenedione, testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), oestrone, oestradiol, cortisol and luteinizing hormone (LH) were measured in the peripheral plasma of a group of young, apparently healthy males before and after masturbation. The same steroids were also determined in a control study, in which the psychological antipation of masturbation was encouraged, but the physical act was not carried out. The plasma levels of all steroids were significantly increased after masturbation, whereas steroid levels remained unchanged in the control study. The most marked changes after masturbation were observed in pregnenolone and DHA levels. No alterations were observed in the plasma levels of LH. Both before and after masturbation plasma levels of testosterone were significantly correlated to those of DHT and oestradiol, but not to those of the other steroids studied. On the other hand, cortisol levels were significantly correlated to those of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione and oestrone. In the same subjects, the levels of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione, testosterone and DHT, androstenedione and oestrone. In the same subjects, the levels of pregnenolone, DHA, androstenedione, testosterone and DHT in seminal plasma were also estimated; they were all significantly correlated to the levels of the corresponding steroid in the systemic blood withdrawn both before and after masturbation. As a practical consequence, the results indicate that whenever both blood and semen are analysed, blood sampling must precede semen collection.