Which of the two is likely to do more harm to the random person who finds this thread -- finasteride or nofap?
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Yeah, poo-poo pee-pee
Abstinence is the major weapon in defeating hair loss!!!!
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Which of the two is likely to do more harm to the random person who finds this thread -- finasteride or nofap?
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Yeah, poo-poo pee-pee
californiaoceans911
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Which of the two is likely to do more harm to the random person who finds this thread -- finasteride or nofap?
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If they are trying to save their hair then DEFINITELY nofap. LOL thank you for proving my point.
Notcoolanymore
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I am putting my weapons down. No need for the back and forth BS. It is way past old. On to the next topic.
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Just be sure you come back and post plenty of pics of your results.
uncomfortable man
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He does have pics.... they're just stuck together! :doh:
The reason I find these threads borderline infuriating is because people believe anything they hear (esp. w/ hair loss). The MAJOR inference to be made from a message like this is masturbation causes balding... as if balding wasn't embarrassing enough in and of itself but now in the eyes of the naive public, all bald men are WANKERS! THAT IS WHY THIS **** PISSES ME OFF - THE INFERENCE MADE IS HURTFUL AND DAMAGING besides being outright false.
What's next? Check our palms for hair? Get real already fvck!
The reason I find these threads borderline infuriating is because people believe anything they hear (esp. w/ hair loss). The MAJOR inference to be made from a message like this is masturbation causes balding... as if balding wasn't embarrassing enough in and of itself but now in the eyes of the naive public, all bald men are WANKERS! THAT IS WHY THIS **** PISSES ME OFF - THE INFERENCE MADE IS HURTFUL AND DAMAGING besides being outright false.
What's next? Check our palms for hair? Get real already fvck!
dreamermerlin
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Maybe, but "naive public" not affected by hair loss doesn't give a **** on the causes of hair loss, they simply don't have a problem with they hair, so they don't care. Do you think they will enter here and read the nofap topic and make that inference? Very unlikely...
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Not proven, yes, but also, not disprovencaliforniaoceans911 said:
If something is not proven, it doesn't mean it's false, you "scientist" of fried fish...
And why should we care so much about "appearances" and what other people think?
The "tale" with wanking causing hairloss is old as hell, people don't need to come here to find it.
So, guys, please provide the study proving that "masturbation does not raise DHT", and then you will be right.
Till then, you are only getting ridiculous with this extreme wanking defending you're doing here. No arguments, no studies, you keep on insulting people here and defending masturbation like it's the most important thing in the world to you, excuse me, but that' s the impression you make.
No one said that. There is a masturbation -> DHT link. And no one is trying to prove anything, we simply share our observations and facts on nofap. Its nothing personal against wankers. If you want us to stop for the sake of public perception, then that's pure selfishness.
Post like yours just inflames this thread even more.
http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/book/export/html/148
- There is no consistent correlation between sexual activity, or abstinence, and plasma testosterone levels – other than a one-day transient spike (46% above baseline) following seven days of abstinence. Wide fluctuations in male testosterone levels (10-40%) are normal.
californiaoceans911
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See this is what non-scientists don't understand. What uncomfortable man is saying (and I agree) is that it is not proven, so why put all this effort into trying it. Yes you're right, it is not disproven, but scientists don't go out trying to disprove things that nobody has tried to prove. Your thinking is backwards.
If I came to you and said "Hey, sleep upside down, it makes you taller", wouldn't you laugh? Yes because it is not something that is proven to work. If I responded by saying "prove it doesn't work" wouldn't you just laugh even harder?
You're using the same argument that religious nutjobs use, "prove god doesn't exist". I don't have to, that's your job. You're the one making the grandiose claim. Prove nofap stops hairloss. I don't have to disprove or discredit it, because it was never proven to begin with. And don't come back with "masturbation raises DHT". SO WHAT? Who knows for how long it raises DHT. Who knows if it even applies to hair follicles. Just because something raises serum DHT levels that doesn't mean it affects your hair.
Now if you'll excuses me I'm gonna go poop upside down, because, you know, it cures prostate cancer. :kaputt:
uncomfortable man
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^ :woot:
Quantum Cat
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confucius say:
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Abstinence makes the dick grow harder.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Abstinence makes the dick grow harder.
Your MIT Phd supervisor have never been more proud
californiaoceans911
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My advisers would be proud, I'm teaching people things, for the greater good of MANKIND! :uglylol:
" After orgasm from sexual intercourse, the increase in blood prolactin (a hormone released after orgasm) levels is 400 per cent higher in both sexes compared with after orgasm from masturbation. The hormone prolactin makes us feel satiated by countering the effect of dopamine, which is released during sexual arousal"http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2006/02/24/orgasms-best-in-sex-vs-masturbation/
"Taken together, these results suggest that PRL (prolactin) and GH (growth hormone IGF) are involved in regulating AR (androgen receptor) synthesis" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030372079290011T
So if you were to put the above two together, it means that the release of prolactin from orgasm during intercourse helps rebuild the androgen receptors, which would not be the case during masturbation, as well as keeping your dopamine in check
I've been doing a fair bit of reading lately, and ever since I started the nofap journey over a year ago, it seems like there is an overwhelming misconception that abstaining from PMO increases testosterone levels.
Lets get this out of the way - science has proven that there is a spike after 7 days, but your levels drop back to normal after that. This is pretty well documented, and peer reviewed, so it's safe to assume it's correct.
Why do we experience "superpowers" which are traditionally linked to higher testosterone such as increased confidence, enhanced mood, better sleep, body/facial hair growth etc then?
A quick background on the science: It has been shown in rats, and now also in other mammals, that there is a decrease in androgen receptors (testosterone is an androgen, so basically they're less sensitive to testosterone) after ejaculation.This means that your brain absorbs less testosterone after ejaculation. These receptors revert to their original density after 24-72 hours, depending on whether sexual satiety was reached (the mammal was all sexed-out)
How does this relate to us? Every time you watch p**rn, you masturbate, right? I don't really know of anyone who watches p**rn for the plot or special effects... With every ejaculation, there's a decrease in your androgen receptors, albeit only for a day or two. However, this brings 2 problems:
1) Every time you ejaculate before all the receptors are restored, you extend the time required for full restoration of androgen receptor density. Considering that many of us masturbate at least once a day, this means that we never allow our receptor levels to be restored, and given that it can take up to 72 hours for restoration from just one ejaculation - chances are that there's an exponential decrease with every ejaculation.
2) Your brain isn't stupid. It realises that there is a continuing trend of diminishing androgen receptor density, so even after a couple of days of abstinence, it doesn't bother increasing the density because it expects it to decrease again as soon as it does.
The implications of the above 2 points are that not only does it take long for your androgen receptors to be restored due to the constant and continual decrease thereof, but it also takes long before your brain even starts to restore them.
Theoretically, this should correlate with how often and for how long frequent masturbation has exceeded sexual satiety, meaning that the longer you've had this problem, the longer it will take before you see or feel any difference.
Now, as your androgen receptor density gradually starts increasing, your body doesn't produce more testosterone, but your brain does however become more sensitive to it due to the increase in receptors. This increase in absorption is responsible for the "superpowers" such as increased confidence, motivation, better sleep etc because the increase in testosterone absorption is the starting point for all of these, and although these are associated with higher testosterone levels, the fact of the matter is that your testosterone hasn't increased but rather that your body and brain is more sensitive to it.
TL;DR: You don't produce more testosterone, your brain merely becomes more sensitive to it which results in benefits associated with increased testosterone
Note: The point of the post was only to discuss testosterone and immediate neuro-plasticity effects and as such anything relating to dopamine, serotonin etc was ignored.
"Serum androgen levels did not vary after one ejaculation or copulation to exhaustion. These data reveal that sexual activity reduces AR in specific brain areas and suggest the possibility that such a reduction underlies the sexual inhibition that characterizes sexual satiety" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12689608
Here's a study which links an increase in estrogen receptors after ejaculation:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X06003345
There's a multitude of info on this available at yourbrainonporn and various other sites too, though I prefer purely scientific unbiased sources such as the above links
"Taken together, these results suggest that PRL (prolactin) and GH (growth hormone IGF) are involved in regulating AR (androgen receptor) synthesis" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030372079290011T
So if you were to put the above two together, it means that the release of prolactin from orgasm during intercourse helps rebuild the androgen receptors, which would not be the case during masturbation, as well as keeping your dopamine in check
I've been doing a fair bit of reading lately, and ever since I started the nofap journey over a year ago, it seems like there is an overwhelming misconception that abstaining from PMO increases testosterone levels.
Lets get this out of the way - science has proven that there is a spike after 7 days, but your levels drop back to normal after that. This is pretty well documented, and peer reviewed, so it's safe to assume it's correct.
Why do we experience "superpowers" which are traditionally linked to higher testosterone such as increased confidence, enhanced mood, better sleep, body/facial hair growth etc then?
A quick background on the science: It has been shown in rats, and now also in other mammals, that there is a decrease in androgen receptors (testosterone is an androgen, so basically they're less sensitive to testosterone) after ejaculation.This means that your brain absorbs less testosterone after ejaculation. These receptors revert to their original density after 24-72 hours, depending on whether sexual satiety was reached (the mammal was all sexed-out)
How does this relate to us? Every time you watch p**rn, you masturbate, right? I don't really know of anyone who watches p**rn for the plot or special effects... With every ejaculation, there's a decrease in your androgen receptors, albeit only for a day or two. However, this brings 2 problems:
1) Every time you ejaculate before all the receptors are restored, you extend the time required for full restoration of androgen receptor density. Considering that many of us masturbate at least once a day, this means that we never allow our receptor levels to be restored, and given that it can take up to 72 hours for restoration from just one ejaculation - chances are that there's an exponential decrease with every ejaculation.
2) Your brain isn't stupid. It realises that there is a continuing trend of diminishing androgen receptor density, so even after a couple of days of abstinence, it doesn't bother increasing the density because it expects it to decrease again as soon as it does.
The implications of the above 2 points are that not only does it take long for your androgen receptors to be restored due to the constant and continual decrease thereof, but it also takes long before your brain even starts to restore them.
Theoretically, this should correlate with how often and for how long frequent masturbation has exceeded sexual satiety, meaning that the longer you've had this problem, the longer it will take before you see or feel any difference.
Now, as your androgen receptor density gradually starts increasing, your body doesn't produce more testosterone, but your brain does however become more sensitive to it due to the increase in receptors. This increase in absorption is responsible for the "superpowers" such as increased confidence, motivation, better sleep etc because the increase in testosterone absorption is the starting point for all of these, and although these are associated with higher testosterone levels, the fact of the matter is that your testosterone hasn't increased but rather that your body and brain is more sensitive to it.
TL;DR: You don't produce more testosterone, your brain merely becomes more sensitive to it which results in benefits associated with increased testosterone
Note: The point of the post was only to discuss testosterone and immediate neuro-plasticity effects and as such anything relating to dopamine, serotonin etc was ignored.
"Serum androgen levels did not vary after one ejaculation or copulation to exhaustion. These data reveal that sexual activity reduces AR in specific brain areas and suggest the possibility that such a reduction underlies the sexual inhibition that characterizes sexual satiety" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12689608
Here's a study which links an increase in estrogen receptors after ejaculation:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0018506X06003345
There's a multitude of info on this available at yourbrainonporn and various other sites too, though I prefer purely scientific unbiased sources such as the above links
dreamermerlin
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Dude, you are ridiculous...
I, personally didn't make any claim that quitting masturbation cures hair loss, read again please. I only pointed out that nothing is clearly proven YET.
So we have a question: does masturbation(or sex) increase follicular DHT? As i know, science didn't find a convincing answer yet, so until things are cleared, the answer can be equally yes or no. Of course, guys who are losing hair and who stay in front of the computer searching for p**rn sites and jacking off each day would like to belive that there's no connection, but this is other story.
Any other "considerations" like you write above are purely bla-bla-bla, not to say it's nonsense.
So i don't understand the guys like you coming with arrogance and insults.
Come with the study(better 2-3 studies) which clearly proves that masturbation doesn't increase DHT, and leave out the insults and the arrogance.
And don't keep telling us how smart you are, that you have a phd, etc, because, my dear, from what you write and your "reasoning" here, i'm afraid to tell you, but it doesn't support your puffs AT ALL!!!!!!
everyone against fapping.. please tear this post apart and tell me why it is wrong, x-post from /r/nofap... trying to build constructive evidence on nofap on why it helps (which it does.. for a fact. shedding has gone down dramatically for me since doing it, itch very much gone. skin clearer, anxiety gone. anxiety = cortisol, cortisol directly influences thyroid and blood sugar, 2 huge implications on hair.
Notcoolanymore
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Just because I don't believe NOFAP works for hair loss, doesn't mean I believe in chronic masturbation either. For all the guys having success with NOFAP, good for you. If you were beating off to the point where it was keeping you from being productive, then yes, you are doing a good thing. I have no problem with NOFAP or abstinence, but lets just not try to sell it as a potential treatment for hair loss.
It is one thing to use science to say why it should work, but nothing trumps science like good old fashioned before and after pics.
It is one thing to use science to say why it should work, but nothing trumps science like good old fashioned before and after pics.
californiaoceans911
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You just don't understand my friend, I've tried over and over to explain this to you. You personally made no claims, good for you...but maybe you should pull your head out of your *** and look at the title of this thread.
I have agreed countless times with you that we are not sure one way or the other...and COUNTLESS FVCKING TIMES I said that I think it's foolish to base one's decisions off of unproven science rather than proven science. That's where the prostate cancer joke came from, but it has become very clear that you have no sense of humor. At least uncomfortable man laughed lol.
My reasoning is spot on: If something isn't proven to work, why the hell am I going to try it for hair loss? Masturbation may have some negative effects when done in excess, but masturbation has also been shown to have some very positive effects on the body and mind. Everything in moderation.
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:agree:
Also, this thread has become one long TL;DR. People keep making little micro-connections where they haven't been established. "Well this means this, and this paper shows this, and that paper shows that, so if you look at them all together it should mean this".
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