An open letter to Uncomfortable man

[treeshrew]

sorry but the whole "sh*t test" thing is well... sh*t.

any girl that has actually been cool, and someone i've been interested in long term, has never "sh*t tested" me. this only seems to happen in cabs, at bars, or other superficial places where the interaction inevitably leads to a hook up, and little more.

there are plenty of attractive, intellectual girls who have no need for the "sh*t test". it is not a universal quality of girls to do this, and many don't.

the PUA stuff is interesting, definitely worth a read, and shows that you can initiate a conversation with anyone. but at the end of the day, if you are comfortable with yourself, and you meet the right person, you don't need "game" you just need to be yourself.

 

[Thickandthin]

What about Neil Strauss aka "Style" - guy who wrote "The Game".

Went from being dateless and getting no attention from women to boning all the time and dating the bassist for Courtney Love's band. They eventually broke up but she was hot as hell.

That's him. Before is on the right, after on the left. He's also about 5'6" and has one of the gayest sounding voices I've ever heard. But he writes books about how to pick up women, because he learned how to do it.

He's bald, skinny, weighs about 130, gay voice, short, etc. Tons of stuff working against him. And he did all this BEFORE he was famous, so that's not even part of the equation.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Just because someone may have BDD doesnt mean that what they percieve to be a flaw isnt actually a flaw.

I like to read all the advice. But it doesnt matter how much advice or infomation i cram in - until i choose to change for myself - then nothing will change.

Right now i get depressed now and then. Trying to be positve but keep getting pulled down. All I can say is that most people at my age our just enjoying their lives, living in freedom. But even since hair loss that changed me. Before hair loss I was never really sad. I never expected that my looks would begin to dramatically change even before my 20th birthday.

Whilst I hope Uman becomes happier, I also respect his posts massivly as the way he has described his despair in such depth and honesty. I can completely understand his sense of despair, it feels so similar to mine. And at this point in time, thats all i want. I want to know that some one else is going through this hell. I dont come here to correct my state, only to lament with other humans, and through that, find some sort of tempory peace.

Im not saying hair loss means no girls, or that we can blame it for everything. But my suffering is mostly due to simply becoming uglier and uglier everyday. bottom line. No one wants to be ugly, and bottom line hair loss can be part of the ugly potion if your not careful.

When your on the street and you see a girl you like the look of - you already know your chances with her - you know what you look like - irrespective of what society or your friends think of how you look - its only you who judges and knows your chances. And over a couple of years, I see more and more bueatiful girls that I know are no longer in realistic reach. And for me, that is tragedy.

 

[Oknow]

Ok guys, first things first (interesting how this turned into the topic of game). UCM has BDD, and with that he will not be able to develop decent game.

He may learn all of the attraction techniques, but due to the fear of rejection he will frizzle out eventually due to his limiting beliefs.

But yes it works.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Seroiusly man, you need a reality check. Um may have 'bdd' - but he also has major hairloss.

just try and get of this site and forget about your hair loss trust me.. you probably dont even have hair loss at all. I have noticible and major hair loss. Realize that some of us come here to just write out our thoughts and feelings - we dont want to be cured for our supposed 'bdd' - more like 'bs'

f*** this

 

[Thickandthin]

Seroiusly man, you need a reality check. Um may have 'bdd' - but he also has major hairloss.

just try and get of this site and forget about your hair loss trust me.. you probably dont even have hair loss at all. I have noticible and major hair loss. Realize that some of us come here to just write out our thoughts and feelings - we dont want to be cured for our supposed 'bdd' - more like 'bs'

f*ck this

aren't you a NW2?

 

[Oknow]

Just because someone may have BDD doesnt mean that what they percieve to be a flaw isnt actually a flaw.

I like to read all the advice. But it doesnt matter how much advice or infomation i cram in - until i choose to change for myself - then nothing will change.

Right now i get depressed now and then. Trying to be positve but keep getting pulled down. All I can say is that most people at my age our just enjoying their lives, living in freedom. But even since hair loss that changed me. Before hair loss I was never really sad. I never expected that my looks would begin to dramatically change even before my 20th birthday.

Whilst I hope Uman becomes happier, I also respect his posts massivly as the way he has described his despair in such depth and honesty. I can completely understand his sense of despair, it feels so similar to mine. And at this point in time, thats all i want. I want to know that some one else is going through this hell. I dont come here to correct my state, only to lament with other humans, and through that, find some sort of tempory peace.

Im not saying hair loss means no girls, or that we can blame it for everything. But my suffering is mostly due to simply becoming uglier and uglier everyday. bottom line. No one wants to be ugly, and bottom line hair loss can be part of the ugly potion if your not careful.

Well there lies your problem. You are not accepting the reality for what it is, and in effect you are turning a mountain out of a molehill.

You are losing hair, there is nothing you can do about it, either a) you dwell on it or b) you have the best god time of your life with the hair that you have on your head RIGHT NOW.

When your on the street and you see a girl you like the look of - you already know your chances with her - you know what you look like - irrespective of what society or your friends think of how you look - its only you who judges and knows your chances. And over a couple of years, I see more and more bueatiful girls that I know are no longer in realistic reach. And for me, that is tragedy.

And yet there is another flaw in your agrument, how can you be so sure about her preference in guys. You know, I have seen some really pretty girls with ugly guys, but do you know what she probably fancies him. Similarly and this is from personal experience, the first time a girl really chased me is when I was looking like an absolute geek; glasses, skinny, no fashion sense. Her on the other hand she as a kinky French gymnast. She invited me back to her room but fucked it up due to my limiting beliefs at the time.

Explain that?

 

[Oknow]

Seroiusly man, you need a reality check. Um may have 'bdd' - but he also has major hairloss.

just try and get of this site and forget about your hair loss trust me.. you probably dont even have hair loss at all. I have noticible and major hair loss. Realize that some of us come here to just write out our thoughts and feelings - we dont want to be cured for our supposed 'bdd' - more like 'bs'

f*ck this

Yes he has hairloss. No one is denying that, but his BDD has manifested itself in the form that he has made it of something of great importance. UMan seems to think that without a thick head of hair you screwed career wise, in your love life etc etc.

I have hairloss.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Im not saying everything is set in stone. some ugly guys get with pretty girls and vice versa yes.

But bottom line, is ugly guys get with ugly girls and good looking guys get with good looking girls.

Why the f*** do you think that just because you are 'confident' a girl will want you? she has to be attracted to the way you look.

If quasimido or the elephant man went out sarging on some bullshit pua mission they would probably be arrested for harresing people.

If your good at football - play footbal. If your good looking, go for girls, have everyone treat you nice and do better than ugly people also for free.

did you know that research shows that ugly people dont do as well as good looking people? did you know that parents treat better looking children better?

Life is suffering.

 

[Oknow]

Im not saying everything is set in stone. some ugly guys get with pretty girls and vice versa yes.

But bottom line, is ugly guys get with ugly girls and good looking guys get with good looking girls.

Why the f*ck do you think that just because you are 'confident' a girl will want you? she has to be attracted to the way you look.

If quasimido or the elephant man went out sarging on some bullshit pua mission they would probably be arrested for harresing people.

If your good at football - play footbal. If your good looking, go for girls, have everyone treat you nice and do better than ugly people also for free.

Using elephant man as an example is simply a bad example, simply because I seriously don't believe there are many people in the world that are THAT deformed.

And yes sure, its harder for an uglier guy to get with a good looking girl and to be honest it is not about "confidence" alone, it is about playing the numbers game. If you are ugly as sin, I bet if you approached say 200 hot girls on a night out, and had confidence, at least one would want to sleep with you! I am no brad pitt but I have had attractive girls show me attention, and its purely down to the odds. Everyone has different preferences.

did you know that research shows that ugly people dont do as well as good looking people? did you know that parents treat better looking children better?

Life is suffering.

Yeah I agree, goes to explain why Bill Gates is successful, style guru that man is :woot:

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Look, im not saying there arent exceptions. Bill gate isnt ugly and he is exceptionally clever. and his is not bald.

im not completely negative. but i am at alow point in my life right now. I know if i can get back inthe into the 'game', get laid a few times, get a girlfriend etc and generally do more in life..then I know i can get out of this sh*t mindset. But right now i am trapped in this doomed mindset..and i only have to look at all the older bald men to realise that its not 'all in the mind' its a reality. and it sucks.


male pattern baldness is the curse of the white man, we are the devils offspring.

 

[barcafan]

I think theres more NW1-2's on this site than there are any other level

 

[ComeOnPropy]

Look, im not saying there arent exceptions. Bill gate isnt ugly and he is exceptionally clever. and his is not bald.

im not completely negative. but i am at alow point in my life right now. I know if i can get back inthe into the 'game', get laid a few times, get a girlfriend etc and generally do more in life..then I know i can get out of this sh*t mindset. But right now i am trapped in this doomed mindset..and i only have to look at all the older bald men to realise that its not 'all in the mind' its a reality. and it sucks.


male pattern baldness is the curse of the white man, we are the devils offspring.

Ridiculous statement. Man i seriously thought i couldnt get anymore depressed about starting to lose my hair until i came here. What the hell is this sh*t you guys constantly speak of, there are atleast 2.5 - 3 billion females in this world for you guys to choose from and because your bald you think that eliminates all of them from dating you, bullshit. Hairloss is not even 1 inch of the problems you guys face, your self defeating attitude is your biggest hurdle, study online do the research billions of NORMAL people lead NORMAL lives and are married at home with kids etc and guess what they have noticible hairloss its a part of life, dont think your uncommon either 20% of people at age 20 start to lose hair put that into perspective there is something like 4 billion males on earth so millions of YOUNG MEN JUST LIKE YOU have already started losing it. 30% by 30s etc, you and I are not alone with our hairloss. Gosh sorry if i offended anyone, but some of sh*t you guys speak is completely ridiculous blanket statements.

And if you dont believe me go talk to the MILLIONS of people that just shave there head and move on with their life, this forum makes up basically not even 1% of people that are bald or balding so put that into perspective too.

 

[uncomfortable man]

Good discussion fellas and thanks again to Cassin for giving this thread a chance (you know how he gets lock happy sometimes) and I'm glad that everyone involved is keeping this thread civil and not resorting to low blows...thank you all for that. Redux, I understand you and I appreciate your honesty, regardless of how it is received by others. You're right that being bald is not in my head...it is a physical reality that people DO respond to. I am conditioned to only recognize or retain the bad responses because (Yes Gemini X) they support my own personal thesis on human behavior. I can't deny that if all I think about is the color blue for example, then that is what I am going to notice whenever I go outside. And it has become a cycle, self-fulfilling prophecy and a downward spiral. You don't know how you will respond when your security is ripped from you and you are left exposed to an unforgiving world and peering eyes. Some hide, some say f*** it and go on with life and a few even kill themselves. Everyone's different. Alright, time for a little ray of hope...confidence or a positive attitude won't guarantee success (however you define that) by the same token, looks alone don't always guarantee success either SO even if you adopt or train yourself to become an optimistic thinker, you may still not get as far as some hot guy with a sh*t personality, but you will have gotten farther than you would have if you choose to only see the negative. It's a little or nothing IOW. You don't have to be a genius to know which is better. I hope you enjoyed my attempt at objective logic that isn't a total downer. Savor that.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I think theres more NW1-2's on this site than there are any other level

Yes barca, you made a good observation but almost 100% of them are NW1-2's WITH BDD. For example, cases like our paranoid poster boy Alex aka Kerzyguy, the NW1 is afraid to become a NW2 and the NW2 is afraid to become a NW3. Its all part of the BDD. Its the fear of how much more rejection you convince yourself you will experience as you slip down the Norwood scale at the same time. Barca, its all about fear. Some can deal better with rejection than others. You seem like the type that can deal with it easily but people with BDD think rejection is a "death sentence". Have you ever been in situation when you feel popular and irresistible to women? Its a pretty nice "high". With these NW1-NW2s, they fear they will never achieve that because they are brainwashed into believing that the NW1 gets the most attention. If you don't have a NW1, you are on your way to a life full of rejection when you are competing with any NW1. So maybe now you might understand why we have so many on here. Its pure paranoia of people thinking they are basically losing their "looks". Its it normal? Heck no. Be glad you don't have this problem if you don't. Its a mental sickness that I am very ashamed I have. However unlike most of these people I am glad it manifested its peak only in the past few years where before my life was somewhat "normal" and I was able to educate myself enough to make a successful living. Alot of the young ones on here may never get that chance if they let their BDD control them.

 

[qball01]

And yes sure, its harder for an uglier guy to get with a good looking girl and to be honest it is not about "confidence" alone, it is about playing the numbers game. If you are ugly as sin, I bet if you approached say 200 hot girls on a night out, and had confidence, at least one would want to sleep with you! I am no brad pitt but I have had attractive girls show me attention, and its purely down to the odds. Everyone has different preferences.

I hate to be such a pessimist, but "200 hot girls" is way too optimistic, IMHO.

I'd say more like 20,000. In other words, yeah it will probably eventually happen but there comes a time when a guy needs to learn his limitations, accept them, and move on.

I'll be blunt about this. A guy who is very ugly (I'm in this category, BTW) is NEVER going to score with a hot chick for all practical purposes (unless she is a prostitute).

I'm sorry, I've been down this road, and it just ain't gonna happen. BTW, I have gone out and approached literally thousands of hot women, and got rejected by 100% of them.

The guy would be MUCH better off lowering his standards to improve his odds. This gets back to what another previous poster has already said, "Good looking guys date good looking girls, ugly guys date ugly girls." That, of course, is a generalization and there are exceptions. But for the most part that general rule of thumb holds true.

When it comes down to it, a hot girl can have almost ANY guy they want, and they are approached many times per day. If they aren't "physically" attracted to a man (because the dude is just plain ugly) she will eventually lose interest and go with a more suitable (more handsome) guy.

Charm and wit, and character, confidence, etc...only goes so far, and hot women will eventually get bored with that, and seek other men that they are more sexually turned on by (physically) because they can get them.

Less attractive women will have to continue to settle for a guy not as handsome, because they cannot get another man very easily.

once again, this is Charles Barkley giving golf tips....Rosie O'donnell giving weight loss advice. I sincerely doubt that you've approached THOUSDANDS of good looking women and not come across as completely weird...you just can't speak for the rest of bald guys when even you admit baldness is only a minor problem of yours.

 

[Oknow]

once again, this is Charles Barkley giving golf tips....Rosie O'donnell giving weight loss advice. I sincerely doubt that you've approached THOUSDANDS of good looking women and not come across as completely weird...you just can't speak for the rest of bald guys when even you admit baldness is only a minor problem of yours.

You never even read the explanation I gave in the other thread where you said the same thing about me. I did give one, I'm not going to repeat myself again here, just because you make comments before uknowing the facts.

The topic of the quote that Oknow gave was about ugly guys who approach 200 women !

I would classify myself as an ugly guy. I have gone to 50 or so bars in the last 10 to 15 years. Before that I was married for 8 years. before that I went to kegger parties 7 days a week for 5 years after highschool. Before that, in highschool I went to all the kegger parties.

I had hundreds of friends at one time. I was quite a social person, even though I was NW5 by 25.

I said all of this in the OTHER post, where you said the same thing about me.

And yes in a 5 year period after my divorce I went out and got rejected by every single hot girl I approached. I was a NW5, BTW. I wore nice clothes, I was buffed, I had a tan, I had "confidence" and all that BS, and NOTHING worked.

Yes, I have literally approached (they NEVER appraoch me, BTW) thousands of hot woemn, only to be turned down by all of them, or given a fake phone #.

Sorry, it wasn't the lack of confidence or anything else, it was called being BALD.

So, now what other comments would you like to make about me Mr. Expert?

Seriously, this is hard to believe, if what you say is true, seriously that is incredible. I have a (minor) jaw disfigurement, a crooked nose, big ears , I'm skinny and still girls have hit on me. I also have approached a fraction of the girls then you have. Yet all sorts of girls from good looking ones to ugly ones have showed me attention out of their own accord; I have also had hot drunk girls pull me over onto the dance floor, after an earlier interaction with them at the bar and BELIEVE me man I am plain as f*** (I would happily PM you a photograph if you dont believe me), and to be honest I have had male friends call me ugly. All I have is my height and thats it, but I am not at all a symmetric guy facial wise.

Dudemon have you ever thought that maybe the problem lies in your actual approach technique, I mean if you do the same thing all the time then there is a good chance that could be the problem. Also, the other thing I have found with girls anyway overtime is that the hot ones always want something that they cant obtain, they want a high valued guy....Often the trick with good looking women who are spoilt with choice, is that you have to show them that you have other girls on the go and that you are not phased by her beauty, even if you dont at that particular time.
There have been many occasions for example where I have built attraction just by teasing her about her imperfections, or after 5 minutes of talking to her I would go and talk to another hot girl and have banter with her. This DRIVES them nuts and very often then not they come back to me trying to get my attention again and again.

Its all about value, I mean its one thing being popular, but being popular and not having influence over your set of friends is pointless. (Ive been there) If all your mates respect you, then they will always give you attention when you are in a social setting, this will work out favourably with the girl as she will think that you are the man! But on the other hand if you are one of those guys in a party of 30 people that just sits down drinks his beer and has no say in group decisions, forget it. I have seen so many fairly attractive guys take the reserved approach and just get treated as they are invisible as a result.

Then THERE is the other aspect of connecting with them mentally after you have got her attracted to you, and then escalating with her sexually. Gotta flirt etc It's complicated. And the latter part is where the real risk is involved because you have to be prepared to lose her.

I doubt you are ugly as sin, I mean as you said you were married at one point.

Anyway, you might be doing all of the above already who knows. In which case I am shocked.

 

[ComeOnPropy]

Im also shocked.

 

[GeminiX]

Yeah, I'm jumping on the shenanigans wagon here too.

If you're the kind of person who looks like he is counting the women you hit on and fail, it's your technique and demeanor, not your looks.

Please please please don't take this as an insult, but I'm going to jump to a conclusion, and I suspect it's close to the mark. You're probably coming accross as kinda wierd; I don't mean the "slightly off centre, but quirky and fun" wierd, but the "oh God, please don't leave me alone with this guy" wierd.

As most people who club regularly know, it's the personality and not the looks which score, or at least give you the same "pulling power". I would be suprised if anyone here who goes to clubs and pubs regularly and is quite social can honestly say they have never seen the guy or gal with the great personality batting way out of their league and scoring.

I know I have, and often enough to prove it's not a fluke.

 

[ComeOnPropy]

Have you ever considered just saying F%*k it and laughing with them and just admitting you had a hair transplant, i mean god who the hell would even care. I know if some treatment doesnt come along soon im getting one in 3 - 5 years depending on how/if my hairloss progresses and i plan to tell everyone ive had one, weather the hair transplant be good bad ugly awesome whatever who cares. Life is to short for this you tried to improve yourself and through unlucky circumstances it wasnt meant to be for you, and believe me i do really feel for you guys but sitting on a forum and wasting your life or avoiding your friends wont fix that. I have told my girlfriend im on all sorts of meds, she sees me obsess about this all the time, and yes i have told her i plan to get a hair transplant and that i fear going bald more then anything and im going to be super ugly etc etc, and always i receive the same answer and that answer is simple WHO CARES.