Apple Cider Vinegar... part II

[GeminiX]

Oh Hoppi come on man, you believe it's acceptable to produce false evidence and get all these people's hopes up? You honestly support someone who produces faked photographs?

Can't you see what saying things like that does for your cause?

If you want people to take you seriously, you must be completely legitimate or you leave yourself open to ridicule.

Research and science which you claim to believe in is not about making things up and supporting lies to back up your belief, it's about finding the truth and basing your results on facts.

And no, I don't believe that ACV has helped with acvfan's hair loss as there is no evidence to support it. I said ACV *might* prove to be beneficial, that does not mean I believe it is, it could just as easily be an utter waste of time and money and yet more false hope for people.

*edit* - On consideration, while I don't think anyone can deny that the photographic evidence produced is invalid, it is unfair to brand or imply the poster (acvfan) a liar. It is possible that he simply made a mistake in the dates he placed on the images, though the fact he appears to be sticking to the dates "as posted" would seem to rule that possibility out.

 

[Hoppi]

I'd like to see more pics too

I just.. I guess the thing is I'm just not surprised that ACV is capable of doing this. The thing I am surprised about is that apparently it can do it TOPICALLY, but, I dunno I've never really looked into that!

 

[Rogazzle]

Ugh, man ._.

Rogazzle, first of all you just attack without even holding back to think. It's like your default approach is offensive, god knows what it would take to make you just take a deep breath for a second and think things through.

[ .. thinks for a few seconds ... ]

If some schmuck comes up to me and says:

"detoxing your liver will grow your hair back."
\
nfire:

I just ask for some evidence to support this assertion.

For instance: The science connecting DHT to hairloss is well documented, tested, and can be corroborated by many different branches of scientific knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiandrogen#Examples
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

This knowledge has formed a rationale and basis for new drug development.

The above is an oversimplification, but the guideline makes a good study plan.

Prove your assertion "detoxing your liver will grow your hair back", show your work, and proof results that show cosmetic improvements to your hairline.

If you cannot, then shut the f*** up.

"When someone feeds you bullshit and you check it out, you will eventually
be able to realize it."

 

[Hoppi]

I completely agree that "androgenetic alopecia" is due to androgens (DHT and others that convert to DHT at the follicle's androgen receptor). I'm not debating that.

What I'm saying is that a toxic liver leads to hormonal imbalances, INCLUDING sex hormones such as androgens. This is scientific fact, there is evidence everywhere (try Googling). Why do you think male pattern baldness often happens with age as our digestive health deteriorates?

In some yes it will happen at 17 or 18, but that probably is just particularly harsh genes. I am saying that male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia is both genetic AND hormonal.

 

[Rogazzle]

"I completely agree that "androgenetic alopecia" is due to androgens (DHT and others that convert to DHT at the follicle's androgen receptor). I'm not debating that.

What I'm saying is that a toxic liver leads to hormonal imbalances, INCLUDING sex hormones such as androgens. This is scientific fact, there is evidence everywhere (try Googling). Why do you think male pattern baldness often happens with age as our digestive health deteriorates?

In some yes it will happen at 17 or 18, but that probably is just particularly harsh genes. I am saying that male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia is both genetic AND hormonal."
\

So test your theory, show your work (and your newly realized hairline) and finally convince the world!

Your word play is nothing but mental masturbation.

 

[acvfan]

My photos are authentic and unaltered. I obviously can't say it enough. Yes, there is a date discrepancy when I took the color enhance off of the one photo. I have so many photos that I took that I tried to organize them by numbering them: hence December 5, what I thought was the date and the color-enhanced photo. Disregard those photos and consider the others. The disparaging remarks by the posters here are unbelievable. Where are the moderators at this site? There is no hidden agenda, no elaborate scheme to entice others to purchase huge quantities of anything. This is a forum to share what works for people. This works for me. It might work for others. Leave us alone. I have no desire to return to pharmaceutical options, but I'm not going to tarnish, slam, or bad mouth anyone who wants to. If it works for you, great. Go for it.

 

[Rogazzle]

My photos are authentic and unaltered. I obviously can't say it enough. Yes, there is a date discrepancy when I took the color enhance off of the one photo. I have so many photos that I took that I tried to organize them by numbering them: hence December 5, what I thought was the date and the color-enhanced photo. Disregard those photos and consider the others. The disparaging remarks by the posters here are unbelievable. Where are the moderators at this site? There is no hidden agenda, no elaborate scheme to entice others to purchase huge quantities of anything. This is a forum to share what works for people. This works for me. It might work for others. Leave us alone. I have no desire to return to pharmaceutical options, but I'm not going to tarnish, slam, or bad mouth anyone who wants to. If it works for you, great. Go for it.

You've made some bold statements inviting increasingly bold scrutiny. Some of us are quite a bit more intelligent and can make that challenge.

Deal with it.

 

[Hoppi]

How do you explain all of the alcoholic homeless people with full heads of hair?

Well surely just like genes can be harsh - say in someone who loses hair pretty much as soon as their hormones reach mature levels at 17 or so - some people are not genetically susceptible at all, or seem to be less genetically susceptible.

It is interesting that homeless people do seem to have reasonable hair, this is something that has been commented on in the past, and I have heard huge numbers of potential explanations. Caloric restriction and vitamin D levels are the ones that tend to catch my attention the most, but to be honest it's not something I have given a huge amount of thought to, and I can't say either way whether homeless people tend to have better or worse "luck" with hair than those with homes, jobs etc

 

[Hoppi]

My photos are authentic and unaltered. I obviously can't say it enough. Yes, there is a date discrepancy when I took the color enhance off of the one photo. I have so many photos that I took that I tried to organize them by numbering them: hence December 5, what I thought was the date and the color-enhanced photo. Disregard those photos and consider the others. The disparaging remarks by the posters here are unbelievable. Where are the moderators at this site? There is no hidden agenda, no elaborate scheme to entice others to purchase huge quantities of anything. This is a forum to share what works for people. This works for me. It might work for others. Leave us alone. I have no desire to return to pharmaceutical options, but I'm not going to tarnish, slam, or bad mouth anyone who wants to. If it works for you, great. Go for it.

Absolutely man.

If you want my honest opinion? I think people are genuinely a bit scared to accept that things like ACV may work. It would mean a huge rethink about the way male pattern baldness is caused or relieved in the body, and shakes up the current view that it's all about antiandrogens or nothing.

It's much easier to just point and laugh, and sit in a bubble.

But don't let it bother you At the end of the day man, who is REALLY winning here?

 

[Rogazzle]

My photos are authentic and unaltered. I obviously can't say it enough. Yes, there is a date discrepancy when I took the color enhance off of the one photo. I have so many photos that I took that I tried to organize them by numbering them: hence December 5, what I thought was the date and the color-enhanced photo. Disregard those photos and consider the others. The disparaging remarks by the posters here are unbelievable. Where are the moderators at this site? There is no hidden agenda, no elaborate scheme to entice others to purchase huge quantities of anything. This is a forum to share what works for people. This works for me. It might work for others. Leave us alone. I have no desire to return to pharmaceutical options, but I'm not going to tarnish, slam, or bad mouth anyone who wants to. If it works for you, great. Go for it.

Absolutely man.

If you want my honest opinion? I think people are genuinely a bit scared to accept that things like ACV may work. It would mean a huge rethink about the way male pattern baldness is caused or relieved in the body, and shakes up the current view that it's all about antiandrogens or nothing.

It's much easier to just point and laugh, and sit in a bubble.

But don't let it bother you At the end of the day man, who is REALLY winning here?

Now you're pulling sh*t out of thin air. But of course you knew that.

Still waiting to see your detox progress on your hairline my little cadet.

Back on topic:

I'll take photos again in June; everyone can take from them what they will.

Why does "the holy grail of getting your hair back" require 9 months (Sept 2010 - June 2011) to see anything promising? :dunno:

 

[Hoppi]

I haven't had results yet. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong it just means these things take time. I've been researching this for a whole YEAR lol, and I believe I've come a huge way. After a lot of studying I do believe that usually male pattern baldness is about liver health, but it doesn't HAVE to be - it's anything that chucks your hormones out of balance. Just so happens that usually that comes down to the liver, ultimately, seeing as it's the main organ responsible for cleansing the old hormones out of your system.

Combine that with my male pattern baldness starting at the same time as digestive responses to foods demanding a large amount of bile (eggs and fat) and you can understand why all this fits together like an incredibly accurate puzzle for me

But, only time will tell eh?

 

[Rogazzle]

I haven't had results yet. But that doesn't mean I'm wrong it just means these things take time. I've been researching this for a whole YEAR lol, and I believe I've come a huge way. After a lot of studying I do believe that usually male pattern baldness is about liver health, but it doesn't HAVE to be - it's anything that chucks your hormones out of balance. Just so happens that usually that comes down to the liver, ultimately, seeing as it's the main organ responsible for cleansing the old hormones out of your system.

Combine that with my male pattern baldness starting at the same time as digestive responses to foods demanding a large amount of bile (eggs and fat) and you can understand why all this fits together like an incredibly accurate puzzle for me

But, only time will tell eh?

You are a New Age scientist true and through! Rock on brother.

Who needs multi-billion dollar research budgets when humanity can just turn to - Hoppi!

 

[1750]

well can say nothing for the hair....
but 4 days in drinking ACV and I've dropped 1.6kgs...
starting to see the outline of my abdominals again..
can only assume that it also works in a similar way to including lemon in your water before meals in that it helps to break down fatty foods ???

No other dietary changes or exercise has been added to my standard daily routine...

 

[Rogazzle]

well can say nothing for the hair....
but 4 days in drinking ACV and I've dropped 1.6kgs...
starting to see the outline of my abdominals again..
can only assume that it also works in a similar way to including lemon in your water before meals in that it helps to break down fatty foods ???

No other dietary changes or exercise has been added to my standard daily routine...

I don't know, but I've dropped 2lbs in water weight in 12 hours just by pissing it out.

 

[Hoppi]

ugh Rogazzle you're just unbearable

Why do you approach things like this? I really hope you're quite young, or this bodes very poorly for your open mindedness and approach to life in future (I am saying this as a genuine observation, not a subtle dig).

I dunno what else I can say, this is pretty pointless.

 

[Rogazzle]

ugh Rogazzle you're just unbearable

Why do you approach things like this? I really hope you're quite young, or this bodes very poorly for your open mindedness and approach to life in future (I am saying this as a genuine observation, not a subtle dig).

I dunno what else I can say, this is pretty pointless.

Perhaps I simply lack the mindless faith attributes that characterize the usual desperate followers around here with their feel good approach to clingy pseudo medical-science.

Simply stated, a lack of evidence is evidence for lack. There is no maneuvering around this.

What else to say? Don't say anything. Just enjoy your cognitive dissonance.

 

[Rogazzle]

I'll take photos again in June; everyone can take from them what they will.
\

Why does "the holy grail of getting your hair back" require 9 months (Sept 2010 - June 2011) to see anything promising? :dunno:

 

[1750]

well can say nothing for the hair....
but 4 days in drinking ACV and I've dropped 1.6kgs...
starting to see the outline of my abdominals again..
can only assume that it also works in a similar way to including lemon in your water before meals in that it helps to break down fatty foods ???

No other dietary changes or exercise has been added to my standard daily routine...

I don't know, but I've dropped 2lbs in water weight in 12 hours just by pissing it out.

LOL Rogazzle... quite simply you are a tool.
:spam: :spam: :spam:

 

[Hoppi]

LOL Rogazzle... quite simply you are a tool.
:spam: :spam: :spam:

Yeah but what can you do eh?

I just hope that this doesn't kill the thread.

I think that discussions about possible health roots of male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia are just as important as discussions into powerful new topical antiandrogens and growth stimulants. We need to have them ALL, so it's a great shame when a health-orientated thread like this gets a hard time.

I believe there is more than enough evidence to greatly suggest a link between male pattern baldness and health (I hear countless stories of those with male pattern baldness getting it after say, stressful periods, and the vast majority of people I have spoken to over the age of say 20/21 with male pattern baldness seem to have a digestive issue of some kind!!!)

One guy had terrible stabbing liver pains (stones), the other general digestive discomfort (probably candida or sluggish liver) etc etc. And I got it after a massive digestive health shift.

It's not magic, it's not witchcraft, and I don't believe it's epigenetic. I believe it's a very simple, small group of related conditions, and it's upsetting your liver!

But anyway

 

[Rogazzle]

well can say nothing for the hair....
but 4 days in drinking ACV and I've dropped 1.6kgs...
starting to see the outline of my abdominals again..
can only assume that it also works in a similar way to including lemon in your water before meals in that it helps to break down fatty foods ???

No other dietary changes or exercise has been added to my standard daily routine...

I don't know, but I've dropped 2lbs in water weight in 12 hours just by pissing it out.

LOL Rogazzle... quite simply you are a tool.
:spam: :spam: :spam:

Don't get angry, critical thinking -vs- wishful thinking. Who did you think was going win? Seriously? Might as well throw prayer into your regimen otherwise.

The fact is these unsubstantiated home brew cures and their kooky solicitors can be a great disservice. There are much more credible approaches to treating hairloss. And the posting of tenuously connected research studies in an effort to add plausibility (cherry picking) should be considered as well. Buyer beware.

But it's fun poking holes in these "cures" in the meantime. It's like a sport.