Confidence...

[s.a.f]

I think you need to go back into counselling, I'm aware that you've tried it before but I think you should keep trying it until you get somewhere.
There are plenty of addicts who try rehab and it does'nt work but then they keep going back 5,6,7 times and eventually they have success.
It sounds like your issues are much more than hairloss but you're focusing everything onto just that.
You need to get away from your parents, and all that takes is getting a job (it may be stressful it may be a hassle but its not difficult).
A few interviews and you'd be earning enough to rent somewhere of your own and would'nt have to face the daily critisism.
You're 34 now, you're an adult this is'nt high school where someones going to call you baldy, you're not a freak just another regular bald guy and wherever you work you can bet they'll be someone else there who is bald.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

I'm sure there might be. In fact, there was in jobs I worked. People in their 30's. But you know what? People DID make fun to their faces and behind their backs. I see people do all the time. Even in their 40's. I don't know I would react. I might want to like start bawling or I may hit the person as hard as I can with a telephone in the head lol.

I don't think it's same as rehab because that is something THEY did to themselves. I drank as much as anyone else years back and just stopped. I smoked and then just stopped. I ate bad and just stopped. No help, no messups. I never had an "addictive" personality when it came to that sort of thing.

Counseling also costs money (ive checked out the ones for poor people already and was not mu boat and group counseling didn't work as I wouldn't' say anything in front of others) and IF i ever start working and all that, i would want to go back for the other issues. The balding thing IS what is keeping me out because if it wasnt' a factor, I would be out there. I'd still have confidence issues but not enough to keep me in hiding.

In terms of interviews, I used to be good at them. I know I wouldnt' now because of how I feel abot how I look. I can't talk to people and look them in the eyes and MANY people have pointed that out to me. I used to be able to do it easily. Heck I wouldn't hire me lol.

 

[s.a.f]

I know but what I'm saying is those guys will be in your position at your age so you are not special just a typical m.p.b sufferer.
You've got to remember that most guys on here are not 34 they are more like 19 -24 so of course you'd want to be in their position.
And as I said in a decade they to will be a 34 yr old nw6.

You make it sound like they all will be. I don't think that. Some people bald very gradually. There is time to adjust. I think the worst part my loss was that in one year it went from like Norwood 2 to Norwood 6. I mean it was rapid.

People who were born "butt ugly" as you said are different. They never knew anything else. Now if someone was good looking and then became ugly because of a fire or something, its different to adjust. And no I'm not saying being burned is like being bald. I'm saying it's closer comparison because it has to be something that happens to you, not something you are born with.

Well I've been looking at hairloss for about 12 yrs now, looking at peoples hairloss patterns and judging how strong or weak their hair genetics are, and I have to say in my expeirence those who start losing hair at a young age (18 - 24) are nearly always headed for nw6 or 7. I'd say in about 80 or 90% of cases.
Whilst those who dont start until 30 or so usually have slower progression and manage to hold onto a significant amount of hair usually about nw3 or so.

Also I have to say that talking to other bald guys about their experiences it seems that those who started to lose hair very young and very fast are usually the ones who cope the best.
Most of them have nw6,7's in the family and realise that they are headed the same way, so they just shave it off and after a few years they are used to it. Its the guys who reach 30+ with good hair and take it for granted that it'll never happen to them who tend to stress about it the most even though they only have minimal loss.
As far as attractiveness goes I'm not talking about hidous freaks just people who are'nt very attractive many of them dont really have anything specificly wrong they just have features that are overall less than idealy proportioned or less than average symetry. At least we have something specific that we can focus on.

 

[s.a.f]

I'm sure there might be. In fact, there was in jobs I worked. People in their 30's. But you know what? People DID make fun to their faces and behind their backs. I see people do all the time. Even in their 40's. I don't know I would react. I might want to like start bawling or I may hit the person as hard as I can with a telephone in the head lol.

I don't think it's same as rehab because that is something THEY did to themselves. I drank as much as anyone else years back and just stopped. I smoked and then just stopped. I ate bad and just stopped. No help, no messups. I never had an "addictive" personality when it came to that sort of thing.

Counseling also costs money (ive checked out the ones for poor people already and was not mu boat and group counseling didn't work as I wouldn't' say anything in front of others) and IF i ever start working and all that, i would want to go back for the other issues. The balding thing IS what is keeping me out because if it wasnt' a factor, I would be out there. I'd still have confidence issues but not enough to keep me in hiding.

In terms of interviews, I used to be good at them. I know I wouldnt' now because of how I feel abot how I look. I can't talk to people and look them in the eyes and MANY people have pointed that out to me. I used to be able to do it easily. Heck I wouldn't hire me lol.

Well all I can say is you've got to be a man about it, to get so upset about a few comments is stupid. I really cant imagine that in a workplace full of adults they would really be interested in ridiculing another co worker for no reason.
I work in a manufacturing enviroment, piss taking is rife and its no place for anyone who cant handle a bit of stick.
As I said nearly all of my co-workers are young guys in their 20's and I get comments everyday but you've got to remember that no one is really taking any notice. Its only you who remembers these throwaway comments.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

Believe me, I'm not happy about it. I wish I had thick skin. I just don't. It's not something you can try to get. You either have it or you don't you know? Yes I can be "adult" but it still bothers me. It festers and then I blow up on people.

I disagree from personal experience. People who start losing at 30 should be able to handle it better. They are already in life and to start losing in 30's slowly, well that is more normal. To be in your 20's and COMPLETELY bald is not even close to being normal. By normal, I mean commonplace.

 

[uncomfortable man]

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable or confident when enough people look at me at me funny and are insulting me during the course of the day, who wouldn't that get to, eventually?

 

[HatPrisoner91]

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable or confident when enough people look at me at me funny and are insulting me during the course of the day, who wouldn't that get to, eventually?

Seems to me people say that you "have to". You either do or you don't. It gets to me. Always has, always will.

 

[Felk]

Hatprisoner, I'm sorry but you really do need to be a man about it. You can't control your lack of hair, but you can control how you cope with it. Saying you can't help how it affects you, this is just a cop out that helps you avoid taking responsibility for how you're acting.

Believe me, I'm not happy about it. I wish I had thick skin. I just don't. It's not something you can try to get. You either have it or you don't you know?

This just simply isn't true. All the psychological evidence is against it.

You can learn to deal with it better, to cope better, to the level that when it comes up it doesn't even bother you any more, if you just chose to.

 

[ghg]

Hatprisoner, I'm sorry but you really do need to be a man about it. You can't control your lack of hair, but you can control how you cope with it. Saying you can't help how it affects you, this is just a cop out that helps you avoid taking responsibility for how you're acting.

Believe me, I'm not happy about it. I wish I had thick skin. I just don't. It's not something you can try to get. You either have it or you don't you know?

This just simply isn't true. All the psychological evidence is against it.

You can learn to deal with it better, to cope better, to the level that when it comes up it doesn't even bother you any more, if you just chose to.

This I can agree with. I was devastated for almost 2 years after I first noticed that I'm balding. But only this spring I've decided to pick up the pieces and move forward. I'm going uncovered with my thinning buzzed head and feel more comfortable than I've felt for ages. For me it was mostly just a decision: I would hate myself even more if I'd let this thing affect me for even longer than it has. Well it still does affect me but at least I have the drive to study and try and graduate ASAP. I pissed away 2 years b/c of hairloss and that's why I still haven't got out of this school. A little hard work this spring and I'm very close to graduation.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

Hatprisoner, I'm sorry but you really do need to be a man about it. You can't control your lack of hair, but you can control how you cope with it. Saying you can't help how it affects you, this is just a cop out that helps you avoid taking responsibility for how you're acting.

This just simply isn't true. All the psychological evidence is against it.

You can learn to deal with it better, to cope better, to the level that when it comes up it doesn't even bother you any more, if you just chose to.

Why would I want it to bother me? That's silly. I have waited many many years thinking "the feeling would subside" and it hasn't. I shaved my head, I worked out, did all those other things people say to do to feel better. Continue doing them. Does not make me feel better about it.

No I know i can't control it. If I could have controlled it, believe me it would not happen. I'm not the type of person who gets fats because they can't stop eating crap or not exercising. I was born with a HORRIBLY SLOW metabolism. It's hard as crap to stay in shape. If it's possible, I do it. This was beyond my control.

So either I have to "cure" it or it has to stop bothering me. Neither has happened yet.

 

[Felk]

I didn't say it was an easy thing to do. Far from it, but you can learn how to get over it, and deal with the feelings as they arise.

You're refer to the problem you have of how it affects you, saying "i've waited for it to subside..." This comment demonstrates what I was getting it. You look at your reaction to hair loss as some external thing. It's not. It's you who's controlling whether or not it bothers you.

It's you that's having the warped thoughts (such as "I'm horribly ugly without hair, no one finds me attractive without hair, having no hair is the worst thing in the world, I don't deserve to lose my hair," etc etc.)

And it's you that has to instead think clearly and rationally ("what's the evidence for any of this? do people really treat me differently?" etc etc) before it will "subside."

Getting advice from people on this board will only get you so far. Take s.a.f's advice and return to counselling. My advice would be a psychologist or psychiatrist trained in cognitive behavioural therapy, not just a run of the mill counsellor.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

I tried some CBT before actually. The problem is that people try to "reason" with me as if my emotions run on reason, they don't. You know what I mean?

You can't FORCE yourself to not let something bother you. If you could, then no one would ever be bothered by anything.

I think in some, ir's unreasonable when they say "the hairloss is hideous" and you see their photo and it looks like they are a Norwood 2. But some people do look bad bald. Are you telling me everyone looks fine?

Yes I know it's me who lets it bother me. But should I lie and say it doesn't? It does, it does A LOT. I would say that not an hour goes by in any day since this happened that I don't think about hair, baldness or something about it. I do other things and the thoughts are there because they do bother me that much.

In terms of evidence, people DO treat bald people badly. I see it all the time. Whether it's constant jokes or whatever.

I still thinks its down to two things for me. Either some cure comes along or it just stops bothering me. I can't force it to, it just had to stop when it stops.

 

[Felk]

I tried some CBT before actually. The problem is that people try to "reason" with me as if my emotions run on reason, they don't. You know what I mean?

I know what you mean, but you're focussing on particulars and getting the big picture wrong. Emotions don't run on reasons, but they're strongly affected by your thoughts, which do run on reason. So really your emotions are affected by reason.

Event --> thoughts --> feelings --> behaviours

CBT is based on the idea that reconsidering and adjusting your thoughts can change your emotions and behaviour.

You can't FORCE yourself to not let something bother you. If you could, then no one would ever be bothered by anything.

Not true at all. The reason people are still bothered by things is because when people do have vulnerabilities to certain things, it's easier, much easier, to let something bother them than to try change. You can learn how to not let something bother you, as I've said multiple times.

I think in some, ir's unreasonable when they say "the hairloss is hideous" and you see their photo and it looks like they are a Norwood 2. But some people do look bad bald. Are you telling me everyone looks fine?

Of course everyone doesn't look fine. But does that mean everyone who looks bad with no hair should be miserable? Man, if everyone had your attitudes to hair loss and life in general, no ugly person would be alive due to suicide. The point is, there are plenty of ugly people who are happy, and have learnt to accept their ugliness and are happy nevertheless. You can learn to accept your hair loss.

Yes I know it's me who lets it bother me. But should I lie and say it doesn't? It does, it does A LOT.

Now, you most likely have vulnerabilities to feeling bad about your hair loss. Having this vulnerability is something you cannot change, but, you can change how you cope and react.

I would say that not an hour goes by in any day since this happened that I don't think about hair, baldness or something about it. I do other things and the thoughts are there because they do bother me that much.

You can contest these unrealistic thoughts, with the proper help, and feel much better than you do about being bald

In terms of evidence, people DO treat bald people badly. I see it all the time. Whether it's constant jokes or whatever.

Are you saying that everyone who has constant jokes made about them is miserable? Should they be miserable? Because plenty of them aren't. I'm sure you understand that it's not events that lead to how you feel, but people's interpretations of events. Some people will shrug their shoulders when jokes are made about them. Others will be very upset.

I still thinks its down to two things for me. Either some cure comes along or it just stops bothering me. I can't force it to, it just had to stop when it stops.

Once again, you're running away from taking responsibility for how you think, feel and act. "It" won't stop bothering you on "it's" own, since the "it" here is YOU. In terms of how hair loss affects people, you (or more specifically your "warped" thoughts) are what's bothering you.

The main aspect you have control over is your thoughts, which you don't "force" but contest with reason and clear thinking, based on evidence and reality. We're very intelligent beings, we have a capacity for higher thought that allows us to evaluate and adjust our thinking. I can't stress this enough, that it's you who's bringing about your feelings.

I'm not saying it's easy to change the way you think, but in your case, my God it'd be worthwhile.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

The fact that I haven't done or attempted suicide should be insight into how rational I am about almost everything.

This is why this stands out to me.

Here's a little tidbit. IN the beginning I suffered from Panic attacks. I mean I was having about 5 a day every day. I didn't take any meds. I didn't do anything but just suffered. Eventually I willed them away pretty much. I can say I haven't had one in 2 years maybe? I don't honestly remember the last one.

So I am very strong mentally except when it comes to confidence and having a thin skin when it comes to being teased or ridiculed. I know that I don't take jokes well. I don't pretend to know if the bald jokes bothers the person. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I am not gonna walk up and be like "did that hurt you?" Firstly, who knows if he would be honest. Many people just say no but it really did. I am at the point where I just am admitting stuff openly because pretending it doesn't bother me gets me nowhere.

You do mention thoughts based in reality. What if they are reality though? The truth is some people do look good bald, some ok, and some horrible. I don't want to look horrible. I suffered through that reality for most of my life (i posted about that a bit earlier) and finally was free of it until this.

I'm not trying to be a hard case about things. I'm just being open and honest about it.

I wish people here knew me better to know how I am. I am very stubborn about giving up when someone holds me back. i have broken my wrist playing sports and continued to play in the game. Most people would stop and run to the ER. In every way I am like this, except when it comes to the emotional type stuff. Sucks like hell man.

 

[treeshrew]

honestly HP why don't you look into wigs? you should check out this video by a guy over at the hairlosshelp forums MichiganBaldie. Here is the thread where he posts about his video:

http://hairlosshelp.com/forums/messagev ... SGDBTABLE=

Bottomline is with today's technology it is completely undetectable and natural looking. Since you already have a girl there is no need to worry about explaining your situation to anyone. I think it would give you a lot of emotional freedom. At least check out the video.

 

[Felk]

Well for one thing believe me, some people really don't care. Not everyone thinks and feels and responds to events in the same way.

Another, when i'm talking about unrealistic thoughts, I'm not really talking about subject issues like appearance. How attractive someone finds a bald man is a matter of taste. What I'm talking about is when someone believes they're unattractive to someone, the conclusion they make that someone finding them unattractive = miserableness. Think about it -why do you have to be found attractive? The fact aside that there are many different opinions on your looks, is it really the end of the world if you're percieved as unattractive?

This may be a need for an unreasonable level of love and approval. The idea "no one must find me unattractive" isn't realistic - of course there are people out there who will. And you'll respond by being hopelessly depressed when they do. Think honestly about this for a second - do you really need everyone's approval?

And I think it's a great that you're honest with yourself and get these things out in the open. It's the best way to deal with them. And I'm glad to hear you've never attempted suicide and are otherwise together mentally. Just get passed this one issue man, and think of where you'll be at...

 

[HatPrisoner91]

Felk,

I'm not worried about "everyone" but more like most people. Yeah it has everything to do with acceptance. When you spend 90 percent of your life having people tell you that you are crap over and over and over, well you don't want to feel like that anymore.

Treeshrew, already tried them for a year (3 different places too) if you read my posts alreadey.

 

[treeshrew]

And why didn't they work out? Wasn't this years ago? I don't think you've tried the newest and best stuff, which, as stated, is explained very well in that video.

 

[Felk]

Felk,

I'm not worried about "everyone" but more like most people. Yeah it has everything to do with acceptance. When you spend 90 percent of your life having people tell you that you are crap over and over and over, well you don't want to feel like that anymore.

You're the one making it an issue man, I'm sure most people accept you anyway. If you are at peace with yourself and care less about what other people think of you, paradoxically they'll probably think more highly of you...

I suggest you talk to a psychologist and try to get passed this issue.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

And why didn't they work out? Wasn't this years ago? I don't think you've tried the newest and best stuff, which, as stated, is explained very well in that video.

I wrote the detailed version of all that already here on the site in one of those threads.