Dr. Tsuji Kyocera, Riken Research, Organ Technologies Form Regenerative Hair Research Team

[Blackber]

It won't be long before we hear something more concrete on a timeline. Until then, all the points have been laid out both in favor of a 2020 availability, and against. The future is uncertain, and there's no need to speak ill to people who have a different crystal ball. Any one of us could be placing too much or too little value on any given piece of information that would make us think one outcome is more likely than the other. There just isn't enough info here to make solid conclusions about when we're going to see this treatment in the clinic. Since we're all just guessing here let's not make it personal.

A-f******-MEN.

Well said.

 

[farkhairloss]

Oh for sure! I can't imagine how insulting it is to converse with us idiots! So tell me, because I assume by the way that you talk you must be on the board of Kyocera... How far off are we? It's good to talk with someone that's been there, and done that like you! Be honest on a scale from 1-10 how obnoxious are us amatures?

Haha Sorry to disappoint you, unfortunately I dont work for them. So I cant give you an exact date. I'd be inclined to lisen to the head scientist involved as a best case scenario.

But presuming it has to go through two clinical trials as it has not been tested to even work on humans as yet. 2020 would be a miracle and that would be if everything fell into place and there were no holdups. The manufacturing facilities have not even been made as from what I understand. So against I think it would be near impossible for it to be ready for the public by 2020 if it works as intended.

BTW sorry to insult you, there need ro be a few realists on here, to you know keep it real.

 

[GoldenMane]

Brotzu's magic potion for 2020.
Histogen for 2025
Tsuji's dermal sheath cup cells for 2050

 

[Ken1983]

By the way I would never get a hair transplant

Excuse the question but why?

 

[Torin]

It won't be long before we hear something more concrete on a timeline. Until then, all the points have been laid out both in favor of a 2020 availability, and against. The future is uncertain, and there's no need to speak ill to people who have a different crystal ball. Any one of us could be placing too much or too little value on any given piece of information that would make us think one outcome is more likely than the other. There just isn't enough info here to make solid conclusions about when we're going to see this treatment in the clinic. Since we're all just guessing here let's not make it personal.

Excuse the question but why?

I either want a full cure or go bald. No inbetweens that leave scarring and can't give you original density.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I either want a full cure or go bald. No inbetweens that leave scarring and can't give you original density.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Ken1983]

I either want a full cure or go bald. No inbetweens that leave scarring and can't give you original density.

You can still improve your appearance significantly despite those drawbacks:

 

[Torin]

Could a cloning treatment cure someone who is very diffuse for example Rafael Nadal?

The illustration above from Riken shows a slick area being covered. How would they navigate existing hairs in diffuse thinning cases?

Their plan seems to be to re-lay bare scalp 1cm2 at a time with 120 new hairs, but in diffuse thinning most of the scalp is still covered, just with thinner hairs.
So what would happen if they tried laying 120 hairs where there are already hairs as in Nadal's case?

 

[Swoop]

Yeah, before the announcement I probably put it at 10 years.

I would shave that off now though. As I interpret it, human clinical trials should start in 2020 and with Japan expedited regulatory approval this might launch then ~2022-2023. This is how I would put it with the new announcement.

Perhaps human clinical trials will start earlier. Can't predict the future, perhaps things go extremely well or there will be hiccups in the process. But it doesn't matter to me that much. What does matter to me is that this damn exciting method will be put forward a human clinical trial and if it will work then (the earliest proof of concept), that's all that matters. We can all pop a bottle of champagne then (I know I will lol).

Waiting with a certain vision of the future is so much better than uncertainty.

Also, we'll go after these guys to try to make a interview happen soon here on HairLossTalk.com. Many people have questions, including me so it's best to ask them directly.

 

[That Guy]

Waiting with a certain vision of the future is so much better than uncertainty.

I have to quote this, damn it.

 

[champpy]

Another potential holdup in getting this to market by 2020 is tha kyocera has to develop, test and then mass produce the equipment that will be used for this process. That alone could take years of development. Then getting that equipment to the partner clinics and TRAINING everyone how to use it all properly.

So even if tsujis method works 100% RIGHT NOW, we would still have to wait for all this other stuff to be completed on kyoceras side.

There is no way that i can see further testing of tsujis methods, getting kyocera equipment finalized and process training within the partner clinics all being done by 2020. We really are looking at 2023-2025 i believe

 

[hilbert]

Another potential holdup in getting this to market by 2020 is tha kyocera has to develop, test and then mass produce the equipment that will be used for this process. That alone could take years of development. Then getting that equipment to the partner clinics and TRAINING everyone how to use it all properly.

So even if tsujis method works 100% RIGHT NOW, we would still have to wait for all this other stuff to be completed on kyoceras side.

There is no way that i can see further testing of tsujis methods, getting kyocera equipment finalized and process training within the partner clinics all being done by 2020. We really are looking at 2023-2025 i believe

and we should also take into account earthquakes and nuclear plant accidents!
2030 as the earliest imho.

 

[I.D WALKER]

So possibly FIVE more years X three before it comes to market?
This little piggy is crying all the way home.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

"Kyocera, RIKEN and Organ Technologies are aiming for clinical research in Fiscal Year 2019 (Year ending March 31, 2019), with the goal to put the technologies into practical use in 2020."
How can this not be interpretted as the treatment being available in 2020?

 

[I.D WALKER]

Excuse my relapse into hysteria for a moment, but even 5 years might be a death sentence for some eg; current pharmaceutical non-responders? Bald beggars will go blind searching for the light of day.

 

[thomps1523]

"Kyocera, RIKEN and Organ Technologies are aiming for clinical research in Fiscal Year 2019 (Year ending March 31, 2019), with the goal to put the technologies into practical use in 2020."
How can this not be interpretted as the treatment being available in 2020?

I mean I get that there's a good chance they hit delays of some sort, but people are giving reasoning as if they've been on the board over medical trials, or manufacturing and distribution of some of the biggest companies in the world and just know what to expect... Sure it could get delayed nobody is questioning that, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge that the goal is 2020, and I'm sure they released that date after much deliberation... They know how difficult things can be, and I'm sure they anticipated many of the hurdles mentioned, but they didn't flip a coin to decide on the date they've released!

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

I mean I get that there's a good chance they hit delays of some sort, but people are giving reasoning as if they've been on the board over medical trials, or manufacturing and distribution of some of the biggest companies in the world and just know what to expect... Sure it could get delayed nobody is questioning that, but nobody seems to want to acknowledge that the goal is 2020, and I'm sure they released that date after much deliberation... They know how difficult things can be, and I'm sure they anticipated many of the hurdles mentioned, but they didn't flip a coin to decide on the date they've released!

That's my thinking exactly. I don't contest that there may be delays. But they've made it abundantly clear that they intend to commercialize the treatment in 2020.

 

[Pray The Bald Away]

It can be, but it isn't gonna happen. We can go back and forth on this but at the end of the day, none of these companies have ever met a best case release deadline. I would bet a lot that we don't see this until at least 2022/2023 (though this is one treatment I'd love to be proven wrong for).

This is a fair argument. I'm just speaking of their intentions.

 

[NormanNorwood]

Sorry to jump in and if may have been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I feel like it has but I don't want to re-read all 20+ something pages.

Do you think this will work for people with DUPA? Or is the reason they lose hair different to someone with standard Androgenetic Alopecia?

Is there a risk they would clone and get all this new hair and then their DUPA just begins destroying it again?

 

[Torin]

These are some questions I would like to ask Dr. Tsuji if I had the possibility.

1. Have they figured out how to influence the direction of new hair shaft growth? Hairs grow in different directions according to its location on the scalp and even better individuals. How will they accomplish this task?

2. Can they treat areas that already have (a lot of) hair?

3. Will the hair germs inherit damage and ageing from their donor hairs or will they literally start from "Day One" as if in a new born baby?