Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Nghtly]

I tried a bunch of things before deciding to go on HRT. Nothing seems to have a lasting impact. Before HRT the last year I was on 12% topical minoxidil (had some effect in thickening thinner hairs), dutasteride 0,25mg ED, dermarolling 1,5mm ED.

dermarolling 1,5m

Being on duta or finasteride did it give you more hair loss? or increase acne libido or oilyskin? Or even Burning sensation on your scalp?

 

[Henkgrim777]

do the treatment for at least 3 months because hair follows hormones after 2-3 months (my endo said so) And save for gyno surgery! Once the gland is out no gyno ever again!

Great advice thanks! I will definitely stick to it. This progress which looks like a shed gave me a bit of a shock but once i have my E and T test i'm sure it will make me feel more at ease with this journey.

 

[Henkgrim777]

Being on duta or finasteride did it give you more hair loss? or increase acne libido or oilyskin? Or even Burning sensation on your scalp?

I used fina a few years, i maintained on fina but after a few years my hair loss seemed to continue. On duta i'm maintaining for over 2/3 years now, but then after a month into HRT this happened... No acne on fina/duta. Libido on duta is like 70% of what it used to be. No oilyskin at all. No signs of a T spike in my treatment. That's why i really hope this is a shed which is a good thing as i notice other slightly feminising patterns since starting HRT. But never really had one that's why this came as a shock to me as HRT is my last resort.

 

[Nghtly]

I used fina a few years, i maintained on fina but after a few years my hair loss seemed to continue. On duta i'm maintaining for over 2/3 years now, but then after a month into HRT this happened... No acne on fina/duta. Libido on duta is like 70% of what it used to be. No oilyskin at all. No signs of a T spike in my treatment. That's why i really hope this is a shed which is a good thing as i notice other slightly feminising patterns since starting HRT. But never really had one that's why this came as a shock to me as HRT is my last resort.

Hmm Then all you have to do is get your hormone levels checked and give it more time. Best of luck !

 

[Henkgrim777]

Hmm Then all you have to do is get your hormone levels checked and give it more time. Best of luck !

Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.

 

[Almas_NW0]

Flutamide 250 mg daily had been previously used in 13 patients (81%), with 2 patients presenting a marked elevation of liver enzymes (10 times the upper reference limit) that led to withdrawal of flutamide. Of the patients with stabilized FPHL receiving other therapies for more than 12 months (n = 5) or receiveing bicalutamide in monotherapy (n = 2), 57% presented a great improvement and 43% had no change. Source

So no, it did not stop progression, it reversed it in 50+% and stopped in other 40-50% who already got stabilized hairloss and not as starting treatment (which would arguably yield much better outcomes). And also beforehand flutamide was used in most patients (81%) and we know flutamide is much stronger than cpa,spironolactone and finasteride. [1],[2],[3]

Not trying to attack you but dont downplay bicalutamides efficacy just because you have “severe nw1 hairloss”. Also look at this post from
Itsnoahkennedy. He said himself he saw major results 6 months after HRT. If you look at that post he states that he added bicalutamide in july (after 3months of starting hrt) and at end of september (another 3 months with bica) he reported nw0 regrowth in this post.
I had the same experience.

It is important to note that this study is in women whose baldness is more treatable, i.e. less aggressive. Therefore, I regard the phrase "no change" as "they continued to go bald," but the length of the study did not cover that. Even if baldness stops, at least a minimal effect should be visible. Otherwise, you just have a plateau that will last for some time and is not associated with taking medications.
If we talk about statistics on this forum, then we will get isolated cases of the effectiveness of Bicalutamide, while the aggressiveness of baldness is also in doubt. If HRT has a close to 100% chance of success, then Bicalutamide is far from even 50%. When it comes to turning into a bald freak, that's not a very encouraging percentage, right?

just because you have “severe nw1 hairloss”.

The aggressiveness of baldness and its stage have nothing in common. Even the most aggressive baldness was once at the Norwood 1 or Norwood 0 stage, with a decrease in hair density and thickness. Even the most aggressive cancer starts at grade 0 and 1, progressing to grade 4 and killing you.

he reported nw0 regrowth in this post.

Damn, this photo made my heart beat faster ...
The improvement in his hairline is not associated with a switch to Bicalutamide, it is associated with an increase in the duration of estradiol use. Noah said that he could not assess the effectiveness of Bicalutamide, because he received results on both AAs. He also said that CPA is better for hair growth.

 

[BetaBoy]

RU is extremely weak in comparison with Bica

From Pan, H J et al. “Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques.” the following is said when comparing Bicalutamide (Casodex) with RU58841:

A common feature of pure anti-androgens, such as hydroxyflutamide and Casodex, is their relatively weak binding affinity for the AR, 50–100 times less than that of testosterone. In contrast to these two anti-androgens, RU58841 exhibits a high and specific binding for the AR, equivalent to or higher than that of testosterone.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Experimentality has already pointed this out: bica’s half life makes it superior to RU. There is absolutely ZERO accumulation of RU. Sure, good for avoiding side effects, but that still leaves several hours a day where the tissues are flooded with androgens. RU is like having one tank that is quickly blown up in battle. Bica is like having a thousand foot soldiers who are stationed for a few weeks at a time.

 

[BetaBoy]

Experimentality has already pointed this out: bica’s half life makes it superior to RU. There is absolutely ZERO accumulation of RU. Sure, good for avoiding side effects, but that still leaves several hours a day where the tissues are flooded with androgens. RU is like having one tank that is quickly blown up in battle. Bica is like having a thousand foot soldiers who are stationed for a few weeks at a time.

No from the post he is heavily implying Bica is superior to RU without consideration for it's half-life. He proposes a topical that would be applied once weekly, this would obviously negate Bica from effectively accumulating there by placing it on equal footing with RU once/twice daily. With accumulation no longer a factor of significance comparative assessment of the two chemicals can be done by affinity for the AR in which case RU's RBA vs Bica is 10+ fold higher.

 

[cetm-419]

The aggressiveness of baldness and its stage have nothing in common. Even the most aggressive baldness was once at the Norwood 1 or Norwood 0 stage, with a decrease in hair density and thickness. Even the most aggressive cancer starts at grade 0 and 1, progressing to grade 4 and killing you.

I'm sorry but you have no idea of what you're talking about...

the aggressiveness of balding is dependent on 2 things: at what age did Androgenetic Alopecia begin and the stage of hairloss.

that's why the more advanced your state is, the more aggressive you should be with your treatment.

also, cancer and Androgenetic Alopecia are very different things.. there are many different types of cancer (malignant neoplasm), that vary greatly one from the other.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

No from the post he is heavily implying Bica is superior to RU without consideration for it's half-life. He proposes a topical that would be applied once weekly, this would obviously negate Bica from effectively accumulating there by placing it on equal footing with RU once/twice daily. With accumulation no longer a factor of significance comparative assessment of the two chemicals can be done by affinity for the AR in which case RU's RBA vs Bica is 10+ fold higher.

He made the point in previous posts a long time ago.

It is well documented that although bica has a weak affinity for the AR, it is astounding at how it outnumbers the concentration of androgens with ratios into the thousands, which is effective enough to prevent significant binding to the receptor.

 

[BetaBoy]

He made the point in previous posts a long time ago.

It is well documented that although bica has a weak affinity for the AR, it is astounding at how it outnumbers the concentration of androgens with ratios into the thousands, which is effective enough to prevent significant binding to the receptor.

Ok that's cool but I'm referring to the quoted post that discusses a topical formulation.

 

[Almas_NW0]

I'm sorry but you have no idea of what you're talking about...

the aggressiveness of balding is dependent on 2 things: at what age did Androgenetic Alopecia begin and the stage of hairloss.

that's why the more advanced you'r state is, the more aggressive you should be with your treatment.

also, cancer and Androgenetic Alopecia are very different things.. there are many different types of cancer (malignant neoplasm), that vary greatly one from the other.

In medicine, aggressive forms of the disease are those that do not respond well or cannot be treated. The stage does not play a role or is not so important, any progressive disease begins with the first degree and ends with the last.

Thus, stage of baldness is how far it has come from the beginning, and aggressiveness is a measure of how well it responds to treatment. Therefore, there is no contradiction between having Norwood 1 and aggressive baldness - without radical treatment, this person is doomed.

 

[cetm-419]

In medicine, aggressive forms of the disease are those that do not respond well or cannot be treated. The stage does not play a role or is not so important, any progressive disease begins with the first degree and ends with the last.

Thus, stage of baldness is how far it has come from the beginning, and aggressiveness is a measure of how well it responds to treatment. Therefore, there is no contradiction between having Norwood 1 and aggressive baldness - without radical treatment, this person is doomed.

talking specifically about Androgenetic Alopecia, advanced stages of the Norwood scale respond worse to treatment. that's why if you act early on, 5ARI's may be enough. ¿what is aggressive baldness? someone with a strong genetic sensibility to androgens at a follicular level. Someone who will: 1) present signs of Androgenetic Alopecia in his teenage years, and 2) progress significantly in a short period of time.

if he started taking finasteride before any signs of miniaturization, it's likely that he wouldn't need a hair transplant or more aggressive medical therapy for decades; if he waited until presenting a NW1-2 stage, probably oral minoxidil and dutasteride would get him back to baseline; but if he reached a NW6-7 stage, there is basically nothing (besides hrt) that can bring him back to baseline.

if aggressiveness was indeed independent from the level of progression, then why bother to "act early on"... Teenagers with Androgenetic Alopecia wouldn't benefit at all from 5ARI's, and this is not what the evidence shows.

progressive diseases at the final stages are generally harder to treat.

 

[Almas_NW0]

talking specifically about Androgenetic Alopecia, advanced stages of the Norwood scale respond worse to treatment

Again, this does not contradict in any way what I said. Yes, the late stages are less responsive to treatment than the early ones, moreover, after some progress, follicle death occurs. Aggressiveness is a measure of how easy it will be to stop baldness.

progress significantly in a short period of time.

if he started taking finasteride before any signs of miniaturization, it's likely that he wouldn't need a hair transplant or more aggressive medical therapy for decades; if he waited until presenting a NW1 stage, probably oral minoxidil and dutasteride would get him back to baseline; but if he reached a NW6-7 stage, there is basically nothing (besides hrt) that can bring him back to baseline.

Aggressive baldness cannot be stopped, no matter how early you start treatment. For example, after a course of HRT, Noah had 0 Norwood, but Dutasteride did not prevent baldness from returning after stopping estradiol. This is aggressive baldness. Tellingly, it began in his adolescence.

if aggressiveness was indeed independent from the level of progression, then why bother to "act early on"... Teenagers with Androgenetic Alopecia wouldn't benefit at all from 5ARI's, and this is not what the evidence shows.

Because with the deterioration of the appearance of the head of hair, the psychological state of its owner worsens. In addition, to restore even Norwood 1 and hair quality, you need at least a year of HRT, and people like me strive to use it for as little time as possible in order to avoid unwanted side effects.
Aggressive stage 6 hair loss will be more difficult to treat than non-aggressive stage 6 hair loss.
The complexity of treatment is characterized not only by the duration, but also by the choice of medications. The peculiarity of aggressive baldness is that Finasteride and Duta do not have any effect on it at all. It's like you're not doing anything.

 

[Guru0007]

Unfortunately my regimen is failing me. Currently on 150mg bicalutamide, 0.5mg dutasteride, 2mg estradiol, and 10mg oral minoxidil. Not really sure where to go from here.

How is ur hair... Hope u r doing well

 

[MylovelyHair]

Again, this does not contradict in any way what I said. Yes, the late stages are less responsive to treatment than the early ones, moreover, after some progress, follicle death occurs. Aggressiveness is a measure of how easy it will be to stop baldness.

Aggressive baldness cannot be stopped, no matter how early you start treatment. For example, after a course of HRT, Noah had 0 Norwood, but Dutasteride did not prevent baldness from returning after stopping estradiol. This is aggressive baldness. Tellingly, it began in his adolescence.

Because with the deterioration of the appearance of the head of hair, the psychological state of its owner worsens. In addition, to restore even Norwood 1 and hair quality, you need at least a year of HRT, and people like me strive to use it for as little time as possible in order to avoid unwanted side effects.
Aggressive stage 6 hair loss will be more difficult to treat than non-aggressive stage 6 hair loss.
The complexity of treatment is characterized not only by the duration, but also by the choice of medications. The peculiarity of aggressive baldness is that Finasteride and Duta do not have any effect on it at all. It's like you're not doing anything.

How much E2 a day do you take? I know you are on injection but how much equivalent is 15 mg /14 days?TIA

 

[Almas_NW0]

Forum bros want you to be minimum a miserable NW3 who has given up on life before they can register you as having hairloss.

In fact, I don't care about their stupidity, because they themselves pay for it. Maybe I'm a fool in someone's eyes, but the fact that I beat the aggressive baldness that started at 16 and become Norwood 0 makes you wonder who's making the right decisions here, bitchеs

 

[Gergely]

Exactly. It has no effects in our lives, although it can be considered immoral as for sure there have been naive and uninformed individuals who regretted listening to advices with such a lack of proactivity.

My current regimen is nothing crazy. But I am willing to go down town at any point - I should have already, but finances aren't good. That's something that I will always have in common with you... started balding 15/16 too.

So what's your current regimen? besides vitamins

 

[Almas_NW0]

No he is norwood 7 right now as you can see here from his last post. Its obvious just like with many of you here that he is balding and bicalutamide is failing. I will pray for him.

Another person who thinks that baldness should only be treated at 3+ stages?
In this case, I always say: I hope that you will treat cancer according to the same principle.
Here is his photo. Any baldness, even Norwood 0, needs treatment. The sooner the better.