Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

bridgeburn

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ok guys. @bridgeburn gave me good advice. i Have 2 options: adding 2 mg estrogen OR 10 mg oral min. i already have good regrowth on 0'5 dutas and 200 mg spironolactone but i Want little more so thats why i Post on this extreme thread. oral min 10 mg or 2 mg estrogen?? what do you guys think is best?
if you want maximum results, use both. if
you want results without extreme feminization, only add oral min..

If you're ok with feminizing. but not ok with possible sides from minoxidil, ie. heart palpitations, bad effect on skin. then add only estradiol

keep in mind: (my skin is better even with minoxidil but minoxidil decreases collagen and estrogen increases collagen)

minoxidil gives faster results than estradiol, spironolactone, etc. but hormonal treatments are better for the longer term.
 

bridgeburn

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do u think 8mg is too high for a eunuch, because most mtf go back on 4mg after their surgery
its very high. But try first 6mg which is 2mg 3 times a day. or stay with what you're using but add some gel or patches. the pills cause a spike, it hits you faster but leaves you faster while the topicals soak into the fat and leeches out. Its the difference between taking a shot and drinking a beer. combining them is like taking a shot then maintaining the alcohol buzz with a beer.
 

bridgeburn

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Bridgey, Thanks for the gameplan. So appreciated! Do you think adding dutasteride without concurrent T suppression is risky? So many anecdotes around here about dutasteride exacerbating frontal loss (the amount of estrogel im using hasn't given me boobs yet, so it's likely that T may not be lowered much).
its a bad sign if its not giving you gyno. I got gyno and increased emotionall-ness right after I started and the more sides I got the more regrowth I got.. that can only mean either that its not getting absorbed, or your androgens are overpowering it, or both.

I don't think its risky to take just dutasteride. its been clinically tested and some maintain their hair for a decade on it, Ashton Kutcher for example. Its possible that the people who saw it sped up thier hairloss wouldve had the same thing happen even if they didn't take dutasteride in the first place. And there are so many people on HairLossTalk.com who make themselves sound so bald, then they finally post pics and they aren't even balding.

sure, i believe upregulation is possible. tolerance and resistance applies to a certain extant to pretty much Everything in life. coffee, alcohol, spicy food.
But if we do nothing then thats a guaranteed ticket to the barren scalp desert.
Try dutasteride, hopefully it works out. and maybeit will, or would at least buy you more time. and if you start losing ground someday then go harder andoutrun this process
 

Marky

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I agree transplants are always an illusion.

But doing nothing is technically the most authentic option...and if all of us did nothing here, we (most of us) would be slick bald.

So I take the finasteride and minoxidil even though I know it's a "fake" version of myself, and I'm actually supposed to be bald.

My advice is only for relatively low norwoods to perhaps reconsider other avenues before going to a full extreme regimen, because modern day transplants can achieve quite impressive illusions nowadays.

However, of course for any trans people this need not apply.
Extreme is more dependent on the dose rather than the big 4 here (oral minoxidil, E, cypro, dutasteride). If you can take in low dose with no side affects, or very little, then that's a win. NW3 to a NW1 would be a successful result.

Then figure out how to maintain on an even lower dose. I wish bridgeburn would take the experiment challenge, drop to 2mg E and maybe a couple other things on low dose and see how maintenance is working out. Perhaps even a little shoot back in T might be beneficial.

In sport there is talk about permanent banning of athletes caught using performance enhancing drugs, the belief is it's becoming know that once those drugs leave your system they cause permanent changes giving you the upper hand. Now apply that to hairloss and HRT. Maybe there is a way to keep mostly what you grow, why can't we all age like this:

upload_2019-2-13_7-51-3.png
 
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Sonolmn98

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And there are so many people on HairLossTalk.com who make themselves sound so bald, then they finally post pics and they aren't even balding.
Omg, I know these people and they piss me off, they do not know how it feel to be really balding, and they are just here killing time, and getting depressed for no real reason
 

whatintheworld

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Extreme is more dependent on the dose rather than the big 4 here (oral minoxidil, E, cypro, dutasteride). If you can take in low dose with no side affects, or very little, then that's a win. NW3 to a NW1 would be a successful result.

Then figure out how to maintain on an even lower dose. I wish bridgeburn would take the experiment challenge, drop to 2mg E and maybe a couple other things on low dose and see how maintenance is working out. Perhaps even a little shoot back in T might be beneficial.

In sport there is talk about permanent banning of athletes caught using performance enhancing drugs, the belief is it's becoming know that once those drugs leave your system they cause permanent changes giving you the upper hand. Now apply that to hairloss and HRT. Maybe there is a way to keep mostly what you grow, why can't we all age like this:

View attachment 112505

That's interesting, I didn't know that taking these drugs in a low enough dose was an option. Since what I've seen here, people get extreme feminizing changes that to me would seem completely insane (if my intention was to stay a man).

Dutasteride and oral minoxidil, at least, can be taken in theory without side effects, but I've seen that eventually dutasteride use catches up to you because it inhibits type I DHT which has many more purposes than type II. Oral minoxidil is more effective because the dosage is essentially more direct into the bloodstream, but again, for long term use I am skeptical about it's safety, even at 5 mg.

As for the other ones, well, taking estrogen I haven't explored because it seems like a preposterous thing to do. My point is, if your goal is to minimize side effects while keeping a somewhat acceptable head of hair, then there are much safer routes to take.

For me at least, heading pretty much to Norwood 5 by the age of 24, I'm happy with just not being slick bald. If I have some sort of hairline and can at least rock a buzz cut, albeit somewhat diffuse, that's a huge win rather than being a cueball. A few years later, the big 3 have somewhat slowed this down, and I'll get a transplant down the road if need be. But it's all risk v. reward in the end and having realistic expectations.
 

Jonny Craig

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Hi bridgeburn, first off thank you for your contributions to the community. I read through this entire thread. You're a very smart guy and we are lucky to have you.

I just started using bi-estrocream a day ago.

I will be dosing twice a day, 1 pump 2x a day.

2mg estriol + 0.50mg estradiol, on hairline only, per day.

I had a FUT in 2016 that basically fixed me, but I ran clomid (SERM) at 12.5mg/daily for a few weeks, Sep/Oct 2019, and it started eating at my hairline. Stupid mistake, although the loss is very fresh, I am confident I can turn it around.

Hoping this estrogen can fix me right up.
 

RuTom

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Please help me! I'm very depressed about my hair. I want to die! I'm 21 years old.

If the level of DHT in the blood does not decrease? I take 0.5 mg Avodart and 5 mg finasteride every day.
The level of total testosterone increased 2 times. Prior to beginning therapy.

I use Minoxidil 5%. Hair density does not increase. Hair thin and sparse. Hair also falls out.

1/6 bicalutamide + raloxifen (to avoid Gyno) will help restore my hair?? Do I need to continue taking Avodart and finasteride after the start of bicalutamide?
 

Marky

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That's interesting, I didn't know that taking these drugs in a low enough dose was an option. Since what I've seen here, people get extreme feminizing changes that to me would seem completely insane (if my intention was to stay a man).

Dutasteride and oral minoxidil, at least, can be taken in theory without side effects, but I've seen that eventually dutasteride use catches up to you because it inhibits type I DHT which has many more purposes than type II. Oral minoxidil is more effective because the dosage is essentially more direct into the bloodstream, but again, for long term use I am skeptical about it's safety, even at 5 mg.

As for the other ones, well, taking estrogen I haven't explored because it seems like a preposterous thing to do. My point is, if your goal is to minimize side effects while keeping a somewhat acceptable head of hair, then there are much safer routes to take.

For me at least, heading pretty much to Norwood 5 by the age of 24, I'm happy with just not being slick bald. If I have some sort of hairline and can at least rock a buzz cut, albeit somewhat diffuse, that's a huge win rather than being a cueball. A few years later, the big 3 have somewhat slowed this down, and I'll get a transplant down the road if need be. But it's all risk v. reward in the end and having realistic expectations.
So far on low dose my over all hair looks healthier and fuller, temples still stubborn and slow though. Plus it's filled in the cheeks on my otherwise triangular face giving it a more masculine square jawed look. Fingers crossed for some butt cheek fill in on my flat ***, that would be perfect.

At 42 I guess I'm doing ok for hair at my age, but you know I want hair like the king

Elvis%20hair%20Iconic%20Photo.jpg
 

Father_of_Shiseido

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So far on low dose my over all hair looks healthier and fuller, temples still stubborn and slow though. Plus it's filled in the cheeks on my otherwise triangular face giving it a more masculine square jawed look. Fingers crossed for some butt cheek fill in on my flat ***, that would be perfect.

At 42 I guess I'm doing ok for hair at my age, but you know I want hair like the king

View attachment 112588
What medications are you taking?
 

Marky

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What medications are you taking?
dutasteride 3 x week
E gel 3 x week 1mg
E bucally 2 x week 1mg
10mg minoxidil 3 x week
Cypro 2 x 25mg week

Topical:
Rogaine foam 1-2 x week
Scalp Elixir 1 x week
Apple Cider Vinegar 1 x week

Derma roll/stamp 1 x week

Scalp pump at gym 2 x week


No that's not me. But I don't come up as high to keep blood in scalp.
 

RuTom

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dutasteride 3 x week
E gel 3 x week 1mg
E bucally 2 x week 1mg
10mg minoxidil 3 x week
Cypro 2 x 25mg week

Topical:
Rogaine foam 1-2 x week
Scalp Elixir 1 x week
Apple Cider Vinegar 1 x week

Derma roll/stamp 1 x week

Scalp pump at gym 2 x week


No that's not me. But I don't come up as high to keep blood in scalp.
Do you have a Gyno?
 
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