Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[I'mme]

are you sure its tamoxifen? it takes 36 days for tamoxifen to reach stable blood levels man. It may just be placebo.

Why does it need to reach it max to damage hair?

 

[DHTcel]

Why does it need to reach it max to damage hair?

yes, tamoxifen takes 36 days to reach stable blood levels so you using it for 4 days likely reached stable blood levels of 2mg of tamoxifen. Tamoxifen doesnt have antiestrogenic effects at 5mg and below. It doesnt even have an antiestrogenic effect until at least 10mg.

Maybe? But I've had noticeable thinning when I dropped spironolactone (upon developing gyno in a nipple). Shall I continue it? I just woke up with this gland in left nipple and abso-f*****g-lutely nothing in right nipple.

lmao yes u are losing hair because you came off of spironolactone, let me explain what happened.

1. Spironolactone has a half life of 12 hours, so after 2 days, its out of your body (4 half lives=out of body)
2. Spironolactone has two primary factors that contribute to its antiandrogenic activity:

• Androgen receptor partial agonism: Spironolactone binds to the androgen receptor and causes it to express much more weakly than if an androgen such as testosterone or DHT had bound to it.
• 17α-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase inhibition: These two enzymes are key in the production of androgens.

When those 2 enzymes are inhibited, since they are involved in the CYP17A1 pathway production of androgens, luteinizing hormone increases in the body to compensate for the lowered production of androgens.

So now that you are off spironolactone, 1. the increased LH is having a detrimental effect on your hair since you have a higher LH level than you did before you started spironolactone, and the increased levels of LH are freely converting to Testosterone since no spironolactone metabolites are available to inhibit 17α-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase. In addition, partial agonism is still present from when you started spironolactone so a higher level of androgens are flooding the nucleus. This means that you now have higher testosterone levels than you did before starting spironolactone.

You can think of this as AR Upregulation in a sense.

I hope you liked this, I spend like 15 minutes brainstorming this and graphing it on paper lmao

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

How poor of me to take tamoxifen!! It raped my hair in 4 days - I know it is hardly believable. Dropping it now. Let me see what else can I do to reduce this/prevent further gyno.

Tamox wouldn't have done this in just four days. May its male pattern baldness getting aggressive or you haven't lost more hair. Some times our desperation for hair makes us delusional.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Pretty sure that's a bogus guess. People bald at completely different rates. Not sure how he's able to make a prediction with that kind of specificity. Was he trying to push a product or prp?

No.

 

[I'mme]

yes, tamoxifen takes 36 days to reach stable blood levels so you using it for 4 days likely reached stable blood levels of 2mg of tamoxifen. Tamoxifen doesnt have antiestrogenic effects at 5mg and below. It doesnt even have an antiestrogenic effect until at least 10mg.


lmao yes u are losing hair because you came off of spironolactone, let me explain what happened.

1. Spironolactone has a half life of 12 hours, so after 2 days, its out of your body (4 half lives=out of body)
2. Spironolactone has two primary factors that contribute to its antiandrogenic activity:

• Androgen receptor partial agonism: Spironolactone binds to the androgen receptor and causes it to express much more weakly than if an androgen such as testosterone or DHT had bound to it.
• 17α-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase inhibition: These two enzymes are key in the production of androgens.

When those 2 enzymes are inhibited, since they are involved in the CYP17A1 pathway production of androgens, luteinizing hormone increases in the body to compensate for the lowered production of androgens.

So now that you are off spironolactone, 1. the increased LH is having a detrimental effect on your hair since you have a higher LH level than you did before you started spironolactone, and the increased levels of LH are freely converting to Testosterone since no spironolactone metabolites are available to inhibit 17α-hydroxylase and 17,20-lyase. In addition, partial agonism is still present from when you started spironolactone so a higher level of androgens are flooding the nucleus. This means that you now have higher testosterone levels than you did before starting spironolactone.

You can think of this as AR Upregulation in a sense.

I hope you liked this, I spend like 15 minutes brainstorming this and graphing it on paper lmao

Maybe ..or because I changed to liquid minoxidil (consumed orally) oral tablets.

Anyway, any advice on how should I tackle this gyno (only a slight lump -kinda like a small ball in 1 nipple) without harming hair?

 

[DHTcel]

Maybe ..or because I changed to liquid minoxidil (consumed orally) oral tablets.

Anyway, any advice on how should I tackle this gyno (only a slight lump -kinda like a small ball in 1 nipple) without harming hair?

no cause minoxidil hairs are different than scalp dependent hairs.

clomiphene is more hair friendly than tamoxifen

 

[Yar]

I have seen a doctor, and he said, ”based on the miniaturisation of your hair you would be norwood 5-6 in the next five years”. Please believe me when I tell you I am really balding. Spironolactone had only a marginal effect on my hair.

You know that in addition to testosterone or dihydrotestosterone there are 6 more androgens that also affect alopecia. It is strange that this is not considered here! Not only testosterone or its more active metabolite, dihydrotestosterone, are to blame.

 

[Yar]

and each of them can affect the hair itself or transform into more powerful testosterone or dihydrotestosterone

 

[Yar]

and then they complain because I have testosterone at zero and I still do not grow hair, because another androgen needs to be metabolized before testosterone, it can either metabolize to testosterone or testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Either the androstandion acts or is metabolized to dihydrotestosterone through an enzyme hsd17b2

 

[I'mme]

and then they complain because I have testosterone at zero and I still do not grow hair, because another androgen needs to be metabolized before testosterone, it can either metabolize to testosterone or testosterone to dihydrotestosterone. Either the androstandion acts or is metabolized to dihydrotestosterone through an enzyme hsd17b2

Spironolactone reduces both aldosterone and androstenedione.

 

[I'mme]

no cause minoxidil hairs are different than scalp dependent hairs.

clomiphene is more hair friendly than tamoxifen

At this point I wouldn't bother taking such risks. It's either raloxifene or gyno surgery.
As regards gyno surgery, I have found a surgeon who has done such surgeries and is charging only 35k (as per conversation on phone) which roughly equals 500$.

 

[NW3.141592]

At this point I wouldn't bother taking such risks. It's either raloxifene or gyno surgery.
As regards gyno surgery, I have found a surgeon who has done such surgeries and is charging only 35k (as per conversation on phone) which roughly equals 500$.

Guys. Since it's about gyno surgery. Do you think it's better to make it on eartly stage of HRT or it doesn't matter cause surgeons do it perfectly even if it's fully developed?

 

[Yar]

[QUOTE = "Imme, post: 1828715, member: 141627"] Спиронолактон уменьшает как альдостерон, так и андростендион. [/ QUOTE]
dihydroepiandrosterone?

 

[Yar]

Spironolactone reduces both aldosterone and androstenedione.

dihydroepiandrosterone ——- androstendiol ———— testosterone ——- dht

 

[I'mme]

dihydroepiandrosterone ——- androstendiol ———— testosterone ——- dht

Yar I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

[I'mme]

Guys. Since it's about gyno surgery. Do you think it's better to make it on eartly stage of HRT or it doesn't matter cause surgeons do it perfectly even if it's fully developed?

I have the same question, but I suspect no one in this thread has undergo gyno surgery.

 

[Yar]

[QUOTE = "Я, должность: 1828733, участник: 141627"] Яр Я не понимаю, что вы пытаетесь сказать. [/ QUOTE]

Yar I don't understand what you are trying to say.

from dehydroepiandrosterone, 2 branches are obtained, one branch of androstenedione and the other branch of androstenediol

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Maybe ..or because I changed to liquid minoxidil (consumed orally) oral tablets.

Anyway, any advice on how should I tackle this gyno (only a slight lump -kinda like a small ball in 1 nipple) without harming hair?

Let it grow; at a point, it will freeze.

 

[I'mme]

Let it grow; at a point, it will freeze.

I can't afford to have it - I live in an indep flat with other flatmates.
Do you think it is better to get a gyno surgery even before you don't have fully developed gyno? Or I should first let the glands form...

 

[I'mme]

DHTcel has been banned again. Really feel bad for him, although he deserved the ban.