Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[yourworld001]

Women are more prone to breast cancer, especially if it's in your family history.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm curious and not having a go at you. Have you ever thought about having your own kids at some point or ever desired it? I know for most guys if they ever wanted kids they would want them to be their own flesh and blood. I'd be afraid that on that kind of regimen I would become permanently infertile or even worse possibly alter my DNA in which it could negatively effect the life of my future child.

Having kids, is TERRIFYING. Maybe even my greatest fear. and for so many reasons.

A few thoughts about kids:

- Even long before my Hrt regimen. I was too afraid of having kids cause I'm worried about birth defects.
2 perfectly normal healthy people sometimes get unlucky, what if I have a twin with conjoined heads or it comes out retarded?! If the baby comes out severely disabled then I would be obligated to take care of them not only for 18 years but for the rest of my life!!

- I started balding as a teenager, is that the genetics I want to be spreading?

-What if my kids don't even like me?

-What if I don't like my kids?!
what if they have a terrible personality? that would be too sad.

-the stress of raising kids can ruin relationships!

"For around 30 years, researchers have studied how having children affects a marriage, and the results are conclusive: the relationship between spouses suffers once kids come along. Comparing couples with and without children, researchers found that the rate of the decline in relationship satisfaction is nearly twice as steep for couples who have children than for childless couples."
https://theconversation.com/have-children-heres-how-kids-ruin-your-romantic-relationship-57944

-they cost alot of money..
I want to travel and have fun and freedom. with a kid i will certainly have to settle at a job and work for the rest of my life. come home exhausted at the end of the day to take care of screaming hyper children and hardly have any time. It's sad to watch ppl struggle for money and miss out on life.

- I like sleeping
waking up in the middle of the night to tend to a crying infant.

- Babies are gross
Like changing poopy diapers, ewwww.

- A new study even suggests that Motherhood Can Make a Woman's Cells 'Older' by as Much as 11 Years!
https://www.sciencealert.com/having...ge-equivalent-11-years-telomeres-mother-birth

Do I really want to do that to somebody I love?!
and

- Is childbirth totally safe?
Sure its much much safer than it was historically. but its still a possible risk. Pregnancy can kill.
hemorrhage, infection, hypertension, embolism, etc.

"conditions ranging from ectopic pregnancy, in which an embryo implants outside the uterus, to preeclampsia, which causes skyrocketing blood pressure and can lead to strokes and seizures, can and do threaten the lives of pregnant women. Preeclampsia and gestational high blood pressure occur in about 6 percent to 8 percent of U.S. pregnancies"

"pregnancy complications can't always be solved by modern technology. Ectopic pregnancy, for example, affects 19.7 out of every 1,000 North American pregnancies, according to a paper published in February 2000 in the journal American Family Physician. In these cases, embryos almost always implant in the fallopian tubes, the connection between the ovaries and the uterus. The fallopian tubes aren't capable of supporting a pregnancy; a growing embryo will rupture them, which can cause uncontrollable bleeding. There is no technology available to save these pregnancies."
https://www.livescience.com/24127-fact-check-walsh-pregnancy-can-kill.html

Even if a girl wants kids with me. is it right morally to grant that?, putting her at risk, aging her, possibly losing her forever by death or a damaged relationship.

- I heard it's possible for women to tear thier clitoris during childbirth and get nerve damage possibly leading to less sensitivity down there..
it's probably rare but that would be horrible!

- There are billions of people on Earth already.
I can "spread my seed" by being an influence to people alive.

- Adoption is an option
It could even be considered noble since there are tons of children in need of homes

- Infertility may not even be permanent.
It's said that we are probably infertile but it's not guaranteed sterility so we are still told to use birth control despite Hrt. Usually I'm dry but sometimes still a small amount of fluid oozes out. There are incidences of people accidentally having kids even on hormones. There are even some who stop HRT for a few months( after taking it for years) and then produce offspring.
So, it's said that Hrt might or might not cause permanent infertility. But it likely causing permanent fertility isn't conclusively proven. What if just like regrowing hair, it may take for some stopping for 1-3 years. Obviously, doctors are better to say better to be safe than sorry because there hasn't been enough research, and it's difficult because how many transpeople are actually willing to stop HRT for several years??
(With this said of course, I am not claiming there's zero individual risk to fertility)

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/7j5tg1/permanent_infertility/?utm_source=reddit-android
http://www.milkjunkies.net/2013/05/trans-women-and-breastfeeding-personal.html

- In the future, scientists may even be able to make sperm and egg cells from skin cells allowing infertile couples and even same-sex couples to have biological children with In Vitro Gametogenesis.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12/18/fertility-treatment-ivg_n_8836470.html?guccounter=1

which may even be better than natural?
"IVG also presents the possibility of ‘perfecting reproduction’, by greatly improving the ability to screen for undesirable diseases or even traits."

- If I don't take an extreme regimen then I am risking my hair, happiness, and life satisfaction for something I'm not even sure I want!


...Is that enough reasons to help understand my life choices?

 

[KSA]

Having kids, is TERRIFYING. Maybe even my greatest fear. and for so many reasons.

A few thoughts about kids:

- Even long before my Hrt regimen. I was too afraid of having kids cause I'm worried about birth defects.
2 perfectly normal healthy people sometimes get unlucky, what if I have a twin with conjoined heads or it comes out retarded?! If the baby comes out severely disabled then I would be obligated to take care of them not only for 18 years but for the rest of my life!!

- I started balding as a teenager, is that the genetics I want to be spreading?

-What if my kids don't even like me?

-What if I don't like my kids?!
what if they have a terrible personality? that would be too sad.

-the stress of raising kids can ruin relationships!

"For around 30 years, researchers have studied how having children affects a marriage, and the results are conclusive: the relationship between spouses suffers once kids come along. Comparing couples with and without children, researchers found that the rate of the decline in relationship satisfaction is nearly twice as steep for couples who have children than for childless couples."
https://theconversation.com/have-children-heres-how-kids-ruin-your-romantic-relationship-57944

-they cost alot of money..
I want to travel and have fun and freedom. with a kid i will certainly have to settle at a job and work for the rest of my life. come home exhausted at the end of the day to take care of screaming hyper children and hardly have any time. It's sad to watch ppl struggle for money and miss out on life.

- I like sleeping
waking up in the middle of the night to tend to a crying infant.

- Babies are gross
Like changing poopy diapers, ewwww.

- A new study even suggests that Motherhood Can Make a Woman's Cells 'Older' by as Much as 11 Years!
https://www.sciencealert.com/having...ge-equivalent-11-years-telomeres-mother-birth

Do I really want to do that to somebody I love?!
and

- Is childbirth totally safe?
Sure its much much safer than it was historically. but its still a possible risk. Pregnancy can kill.
hemorrhage, infection, hypertension, embolism, etc.

"conditions ranging from ectopic pregnancy, in which an embryo implants outside the uterus, to preeclampsia, which causes skyrocketing blood pressure and can lead to strokes and seizures, can and do threaten the lives of pregnant women. Preeclampsia and gestational high blood pressure occur in about 6 percent to 8 percent of U.S. pregnancies"

"pregnancy complications can't always be solved by modern technology. Ectopic pregnancy, for example, affects 19.7 out of every 1,000 North American pregnancies, according to a paper published in February 2000 in the journal American Family Physician. In these cases, embryos almost always implant in the fallopian tubes, the connection between the ovaries and the uterus. The fallopian tubes aren't capable of supporting a pregnancy; a growing embryo will rupture them, which can cause uncontrollable bleeding. There is no technology available to save these pregnancies."
https://www.livescience.com/24127-fact-check-walsh-pregnancy-can-kill.html

Even if a girl wants kids with me. is it right morally to grant that?, putting her at risk, aging her, possibly losing her forever by death or a damaged relationship.

- I heard it's possible for women to tear thier clitoris during childbirth and get nerve damage possibly leading to less sensitivity down there..
it's probably rare but that would be horrible!

- There are billions of people on Earth already.
I can "spread my seed" by being an influence to people alive.

- Adoption is an option
It could even be considered noble since there are tons of children in need of homes

- Infertility may not even be permanent.
It's said that we are probably infertile but it's not guaranteed sterility so we are still told to use birth control despite Hrt. Usually I'm dry but sometimes still a small amount of fluid oozes out. There are incidences of people accidentally having kids even on hormones. There are even some who stop HRT for a few months( after taking it for years) and then produce offspring.
So, it's said that Hrt might or might not cause permanent infertility. But it likely causing permanent fertility isn't conclusively proven. What if just like regrowing hair, it may take for some stopping for 1-3 years. Obviously, doctors are better to say better to be safe than sorry because there hasn't been enough research, and it's difficult because how many transpeople are actually willing to stop HRT for several years??
(With this said of course, I am not claiming there's zero individual risk to fertility)

https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/7j5tg1/permanent_infertility/?utm_source=reddit-android
http://www.milkjunkies.net/2013/05/trans-women-and-breastfeeding-personal.html

- In the future, scientists may even be able to make sperm and egg cells from skin cells allowing infertile couples and even same-sex couples to have biological children with In Vitro Gametogenesis.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12/18/fertility-treatment-ivg_n_8836470.html?guccounter=1

which may even be better than natural?
"IVG also presents the possibility of ‘perfecting reproduction’, by greatly improving the ability to screen for undesirable diseases or even traits."

- If I don't take an extreme regimen then I am risking my hair, happiness, and life satisfaction for something I'm not even sure I want!


...Is that enough reasons to help understand my life choices?

You’re a champ : ) I’m in a similar situation. I had 9 years of complete growth on a controversial antiandrogen called Flutamide (prescribed to me for other medical reasons) however I was recently taken off and put on spironolactone : ( all I’ve done is shed - I added oral minoxidil and I lost even more ground. Would you recommend oral E2? I’m on spironolactone 300mg and I have no gyno so I’m not too worried about sides.

 

[bridgeburn]

You’re a champ : ) I’m in a similar situation. I had 9 years of complete growth on a controversial antiandrogen called Flutamide (prescribed to me for other medical reasons) however I was recently taken off and put on spironolactone : ( all I’ve done is shed - I added oral minoxidil and I lost even more ground. Would you recommend oral E2? I’m on spironolactone 300mg and I have no gyno so I’m not too worried about sides.

how long have you been on spironolactone? minoxidil? it could be an initial shed if recent. Otherwise, if you add in E, I'd def recommend to take estradiol hemihydrate buccally rather than oral E. Why were you taken off flutamide? if it was working then can you take fluta again?

 

[KSA]

how long have you been on spironolactone? minoxidil? it could be an initial shed if recent. Otherwise, if you add in E, I'd def recommend to take estradiol hemihydrate buccally rather than oral E. Why were you taken off flutamide? if it was working then can you take fluta again?

spironolactone in Jan, oral minoxidil a month ago. Because I need antiandrogens for the long term my doctors preferred spironolactone to Flutamide because there are fewer sides (possible liver damage on flut). With that said I have a stash of it ready to go, I’m just hoping things work out soon

 

[Marky]

It's not just about girls!! I want my hair FOR ME. I still look fine in most shirts, they stick out a little but most people do not look for boobs on men or will notice unless they are huge. and you do know that bi sexual girls exist, right? in any case, I want this!!! it's not enough anymore to just have decent hair.. I deserve better than that!! I worked hard for this, I put my soul into this.. how can I possibly accept just being normal, when i know others exist with better hair and didn't even earn it.. I need to at least reach that level. Zero f*****g testosterone and zero f*****g baldness. I've come too far to settle on regular socially acceptable hair, just so i can be normal and boring like every other average person!! NO, I have one life and i want to know what's possible. I will continue until I become a God of hair. f*** other people!! It's not just about them, first and foremost, I want this for myself!!!!!!!!! Hairloss is the same as a disease for me! It bothers me for MULTIPLE reasons on extremely deep levels. In fact I'm making my regimen even stronger.

That was right on man. But do you have a younger pic of yourself when you had the best hair possible? I don't know how much more you can possibly grow, estro doesn't just generate new follicles you know.

 

[bridgeburn]

spironolactone in Jan, oral minoxidil a month ago. Because I need antiandrogens for the long term my doctors preferred spironolactone to Flutamide because there are fewer sides (possible liver damage on flut). With that said I have a stash of it ready to go, I’m just hoping things work out soon

How about bicalutimide? it's a newer version of the same class of drug as flutamide and supposed to be safer.
I don't know of many people who still use flutamide these days.

"The drug has largely been replaced by newer and improved NSAAs, namely bicalutamideand enzalutamide, due to their better efficacy, tolerability, safety, and dosing frequency (once per day), and is now relatively little-used.[5][16]"

 

[bridgeburn]

That was right on man. But do you have a younger pic of yourself when you had the best hair possible? I don't know how much more you can possibly grow, estro doesn't just generate new follicles you know.

I don't have any young pics with my hair pulled back. but Im not at maximum yet cause I still have tiny hairs thickening

 

[KSA]

How about bicalutimide? it's a newer version of the same class of drug as flutamide and supposed to be safer.
I don't know of many people who still use flutamide these days.

"The drug has largely been replaced by newer and improved NSAAs, namely bicalutamideand enzalutamide, due to their better efficacy, tolerability, safety, and dosing frequency (once per day), and is now relatively little-used.[5][16]"

Thank you for your reply.
My doctors considered that, but because of the surge in testosterone caused by non-steroidals, they're not the best drugs for cosmetic use -_- I have a stash of Flutamide by my side because the transition off was pretty awful, but I don't want to play around anymore unless it's a long term program.

 

[bridgeburn]

Thank you for your reply.
My doctors considered that, but because of the surge in testosterone caused by non-steroidals, they're not the best drugs for cosmetic use -_- I have a stash of Flutamide by my side because the transition off was pretty awful, but I don't want to play around anymore unless it's a long term program.

Fluta will also cause that surge. You're only other options besides bica or fluta are spironolactone and cypro, and cypro is also most notorious for heptatotoxicity, Antigonadotrophins like lupron are safer but will definitely cause an initial surge and are expensive. so long term either bica or spironolactone are your only real options.. (unless you want to buy enzalutimide powder from China, which is a pure receptor blocker without effecting HPG axis). or unless you want to take high amounts of estradiol but that will have feminizing consequences.
oh, or you could just get an orchirectomy lol.

 

[KSA]

Fluta will also cause that surge. You're only other options besides bica or fluta are spironolactone and cypro, and cypro is also most notorious for heptatotoxicity, Antigonadotrophins like lupron are safer but will definitely cause an initial surge and are expensive. so long term either bica or spironolactone are your only real options.. (unless you want to buy enzalutimide powder from China, which is a pure receptor blocker without effecting HPG axis). or unless you want to take high amounts of estradiol but that will have feminizing consequences.
oh, or you could just get an orchirectomy lol.

As of last week my doctors were quite thrilled with all my levels for the first time in my life so I feel a small dose of estradiol maybe my bet. That, or back on dexamethasone that can pull it all down in a week but scarier consequences Thanks so much!!

 

[Marky]

Fluta will also cause that surge. You're only other options besides bica or fluta are spironolactone and cypro, and cypro is also most notorious for heptatotoxicity, Antigonadotrophins like lupron are safer but will definitely cause an initial surge and are expensive. so long term either bica or spironolactone are your only real options.. (unless you want to buy enzalutimide powder from China, which is a pure receptor blocker without effecting HPG axis). or unless you want to take high amounts of estradiol but that will have feminizing consequences.
oh, or you could just get an orchirectomy lol.

And you take cypro daily??

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Thank you so much for making this thread thx double that for sticking around.

Incredible results, especially for such a short period of time. This is what extreme androgen suppression along with estrogen supplementation will do.

For whatever reason estrogen when combined with anti androgens seems to really increase hair regrowth.

So what is your end game, are you planning on staying on these drugs forever?

 

[bridgeburn]

And you take cypro daily??

I was. I didn't mention but recently i stopped cypro, I will take a break because i worry about the prolactin. Im trying out spironolactone now.

So what is your end game, are you planning on staying on these drugs forever?

maybe, lol

 

[Jesse Navarro]

Hi, Bridgeburn, do you still aplly oestrogel on your scalp? I was thinking about using 0,70mg of oestrogel, at this low dosage maybe try to avoid gynecomastia and osteoporosis. Do you think i could do that with that dosage? Whats your dosage of loniten, on the days you take it? Do you have more hair on your body now, is it manageable? Sorry to disturb you with so many questions. Take your time to answer, and only if you feel you should.

 

[Kornel]

I was. I didn't mention but recently i stopped cypro, I will take a break because i worry about the prolactin. Im trying out spironolactone now

What's your daily dose of spironolactone?

 

[rclark]

I


maybe, lol

Your'e definitely a Norwood zero, or at least a Norwood one, by now.

Already you are in the same "hair zone" as Antydhor, as proven by your latest
picture.

Why do you want to quit the estrogen?

Could the estrogen be tapered down, possibly?

 

[bridgeburn]

Hi, Bridgeburn, do you still aplly oestrogel on your scalp?

sometimes on scalp, and also on arms, stomach.

I was thinking about using 0,70mg of oestrogel, at this low dosage maybe try to avoid gynecomastia and osteoporosis. Do you think i could do that with that dosage?

thats quite a low dose so Im not sure if you can maintain bone density long term if you don't have testosterone.

Whats your dosage of loniten, on the days you take it?

10mg every other day

Do you have more hair on your body now, is it manageable?

i have less hypertrichosis than when i took loniten everyday.. I have more hair some places like my arms, but Im losing the hair on my chest despite the minoxidil.

What's your daily dose of spironolactone?

200mg, I also am taking 1.5mg oestrogel 6mg estrofem and .5mg dutasteride

 

[furtbr]

You had a cool metallica James Hetfield-like Thor photo and now it is a flower.

Edit: But nice experiment by the way.

 

[bridgeburn]

Your'e definitely a Norwood zero, or at least a Norwood one, by now.

Already you are in the same "hair zone" as Antydhor, as proven by your latest
picture.

Why do you want to quit the estrogen?

Could the estrogen be tapered down, possibly?

No, I still have a longgg way to go! Its not near nw0 yet

I didn't say I wanted to quit estradiol. I gotta keep going hardcore at least another year!