Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Almas

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I usually think of AA's as inducing marginal hair improvement but not so much as for maintenance. That's an interesting question. Some MtF's still have issues even after castration. It appears that DHT never wants to go "gently into the night" and it can be amazingly persistent. I had to have my beard removed before my dermatitis relented even with estrogen and spironolactone being used at the time. It appears that DHT can also come from the adrenals as well as synthesizing itself in hair and beard follicles.

I am uncertain that using just an AA is any better either at avoiding breast growth since very little estrogen will result in breast growth as seen in pubertal cis-females. Do they have less effect on spermatogenesis? I don't know because I never used only an AA but regardless using bica at those levels is something that the body cannot sustain without losing bone mass. Some of you folks do more dangerous things just to avoid using or admitting you use estrogen because estrogen is for girls while apparently AA's are seen as less oriented to femaleness.
You should use as little zestrogen as possible because it causes muscle loss and some unwanted effects. It is better to use 50mg Bica + 2mg estro than 8mg estro and more and continue to go bald, because nothing prevents T and DHT residues from binding to receptors. Unless the dosage of Bica can be reduced to 25 mg, because the T is very low

We have two options:
1) Bica + 2mg estro
2) Large doses of estro
Let's compare the side effects of the two options:
1) Gynecomastia, moderate or absent feminization
2) Loss of muscle mass, severe feminization, virtually complete HRT

I hope this question is closed. Monotherapy with estradiol is irrational
 

JaneyElizabeth

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You should use as little zestrogen as possible because it causes muscle loss and some unwanted effects. It is better to use 50mg Bica + 2mg estro than 8mg estro and more and continue to go bald, because nothing prevents T and DHT residues from binding to receptors. Unless the dosage of Bica can be reduced to 25 mg, because the T is very low

We have two options:
1) Bica + 2mg estro
2) Large doses of estro
Let's compare the side effects of the two options:
1) Gynecomastia, moderate or absent feminization
2) Loss of muscle mass, severe feminization, virtually complete HRT

I hope this question is closed. Monotherapy with estradiol is irrational
Now, now. I might re-open it as I think that you are asserting a thesis perhaps without enough data to support it.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Now, now. I might re-open it as I think that you are asserting a thesis perhaps without enough data to support it.
Even 2mg of estradiol without an AA can reset the axis and lead to complete feminization it appears. Folks might want to bookmark Transfeminine Science at reddit as they post and often comment on the most recent studies. That's why I continue to reiterate that even tiny amounts like my .30mg of Premarin can induce incipient feminization without being substantial enough to help hair much at all, if any. This is a maze that is not easily exited. I am going to educate myself more about Serms because I don't believe otherwise, this is possible without feminizing. And even then, Serms might prevent breast growth but that isn't particularly even part of feminization.
 

Almas

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Even 2mg of estradiol without an AA can reset the axis and lead to complete feminization it appears. Folks might want to bookmark Transfeminine Science at reddit as they post and often comment on the most recent studies. That's why I continue to reiterate that even tiny amounts like my .30mg of Premarin can induce incipient feminization without being substantial enough to help hair much at all, if any. This is a maze that is not easily exited. I am going to educate myself more about Serms because I don't believe otherwise, this is possibly without feminizing. And even then, Serms might prevent breast growth but that isn't particularly even part of feminization.
Are you suggesting throwing all AAs in the trash and just injecting yourself with estrogen? Low dose monotherapy will not stop hair loss, and high doses will have powerful effects. We cis guys are looking for an intermediate option. This implies maximum androgen blockade and minimum estradiol dosages.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Are you suggesting throwing all AAs in the trash and just injecting yourself with estrogen? Low dose monotherapy will not stop hair loss, and high doses will have powerful effects. We cis guys are looking for an intermediate option. This implies maximum androgen blockade and minimum estradiol dosages.
I am suggesting you look at the studies. Anecdotally, I have tried this from many different angles and flooding the system with E2 and then using oral minoxidil on top of that is by far the thing that has worked and it has worked impressively. I have been trying to figure out why MtF hair regrowth is so variable and I think it is because we can easily feminize from the neck down with middling levels of T and E2. That's why I say, there is often a reason why a certain approach is not a "thing" among cis-males. I am sure that people have been trying this since 1930, largely without success except for "transsexuals", now mostly called transgender females with SRS. Rob Winter mentions eunuchs treated with estrogen have often regrown copious amounts of hair but that mere castration didn't work to regrow hair.

Furthermore, the body "doesn't care" whether one uses 2mg or 20 mg daily provided that adult female targets are met as those will induce complete feminization.

I am all in favor of you trying different things as that increases our overall knowledge and provides additional anecdotal data points. At the same time, you are not obligated to do research when your goal is more hair. I am just as happy either way but if you read through this massive thread (you need several hours to do so) we have seen people usually meeting success using both an AA and estrogen. I am using MPA but otherwise, I am attempting to show that AA's are not necessary as this is what all of the "cool kids" in the MtF world are doing, called estradiol-only HRT. It definitely works. The other thing that I regret to inform folks of is that sheds even massive ones, seem to be part of the full regeneration process and my feeling already and validated by the article on my thread, is that stopping treatment due to a shed simply sets a person back to zero.

That's why I am recommending people have a hair system or a wig in place as a back-up should a shed happen. I wish I were more sanguine. I was obviously previously but I just never got anywhere on low-dose estradiol in a context where I was not hitting adult female targets. I started wearing two Climara 100's in June, plus 1.25mg of Premarin plus liberal use of estrogel taking me to adult female first trimester pregnancy levels and I posted my test to indicate this--and boom! Profusive hair growth began and then after adding oral min, explosive hair growth commenced. That's when I started regular posting of pics so people could follow along to see if it worked and what it looked like as it came in. The other thing that you might notice is that 2mg at least in the short-run appears to be the minimum used by those with excellent regrowth but most were using above 2mg plus an AA.

Unfortunately the two folks who have written most about this, @bridgeburn and I, both experienced breast growth far more than is typical of MtF's on HRT so it probably appears that substantial breast growth is often part of this when in fact, it rarely is. But as I quote my favorite line from a forgotten play, "you pays your money and you takes your chances".

Goddess bless.
 
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Nimos0651

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Are you suggesting throwing all AAs in the trash and just injecting yourself with estrogen? Low dose monotherapy will not stop hair loss, and high doses will have powerful effects. We cis guys are looking for an intermediate option. This implies maximum androgen blockade and minimum estradiol dosages.
This is what I am trying to figure out as well. 3 weeks on 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel topically to scalp.
 

nicoandgello

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This is what I am trying to figure out as well. 3 weeks on 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel topically to scalp.
50mg is really small dose. Do you think it could help someone that only takes finasteride and oral min?
 

Pls_NW-1

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Spironolactone has more anectodal evidence, while bicalutamide in theory should work better, but the tits man, the tits.
Yes the jiggle wiggles lol. Some people get crazy hair effects from bica on here... seems like. But yeah, take bica and forget about hair loss. Lol and think about new problems :(
 

nicoandgello

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Yes the jiggle wiggles lol. Some people get crazy hair effects from bica on here... seems like. But yeah, take bica and forget about hair loss. Lol and think about new problems :(
Who used bicalutamide? I think Ein and Ikarus. Ikarus used E2 so its hard to say if bica worked for him. Ein on the other hand never had any male pattern baldness(at least from what I have seen)
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Spironolactone has more anectodal evidence, while bicalutamide in theory should work better, but the tits man, the tits.
No. There has been a misunderstanding. I am not stating that AA's not be used or discarded. I am speaking towards the idea that AA's are no less feminizing when used with estrogen or when used in large amounts by themselves. Many state that AA's alone can induce breast development. I also note that very low amounts of estrogen can reset the axis. The person who mentioned estradiol plus estrogel and spironolactone has a reasonable protocol although you might want to use 1mg of Estrogel. 50 mg of spironolactone is a perfect amount for starting off. Remember we titrate upwards as we go forward but the less spironolactone the better. Estrogen is an endogenous hormone that we all produce. AA's are all synthetic.

My point is that many permutations are likely to be feminizing. In terms of spironolactone v. bica, I mean we don't know. Many, like me, find spironolactone plus estrogen to be more feminizing than estrogen alone and extremely so. Bica at one time had a reputation for being good for hair growth but I haven't seen much evidence of this. It does seem to have fewer sides in the short-run. For MtF's, essentially none of the AA's promote breast growth and many folks blame CPA or spironolactone for fusing their breast ducts.
 
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nicoandgello

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No. There has been a misunderstanding. I am not stating that AA's not be used or discarded. I am speaking towards the idea that AA's are no less feminizing when used with estrogen or when used in large amounts by themselves. Many state that AA's alone can induce breast development. I also note that very low amounts of estrogen can reset the axis. The person who mentioned estradiol plus estrogel and spironolactone has a reasonable protocol although you might want to use 1mg of Estrogel. 50 mg of spironolactone is a perfect amount for starting off. Remember we titrate upwards as we go forward but the less spironolactone the better. Estrogen is an endogenous hormone that we all produce. AA's are all synthetic.

My point is that many permutations are likely to be feminizing. In terms of spironolactone v. bica, I mean we don't know. Many, like me, find spironolactone plus estrogen to be more feminizing than estrogen alone and extremely so. Bica at one time had a reputation for being good for hair growth but I haven't seen much evidence of this. It does seem to have fewer sides in the short-run. For MtF's, essentially none of the AA's promote breast growth and many folks blame CPA or spironolactone for fusing their breast ducts.
I was thinking about low dose spironolactone to help my SebDerm. My hairloss stopped like 2 years ago, and it's not worth it for me to risk using estrogens. I'd rather get 2 FUTs to fix my hairline and lower it by 1 cm.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I was thinking about low dose spironolactone to help my SebDerm. My hairloss stopped like 2 years ago, and it's not worth it for me to risk using estrogens. I'd rather get 2 FUTs to fix my hairline and lower it by 1 cm.
spironolactone and estrogen didn't even curtail my dermatitis. Only beard removal did but I mean, it might for you. I had debilitating dermatitis as shown in the blog with several pics.
 
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