Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

JaneyElizabeth

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Proof that @jamesbooker1975 is an idiot lol
I have found him to be short-tempered and rude and I have tried to make sure that when I answer questions or someone disagrees with me, that I don't call them "stupid" or act as though they are bothering me. There's another unsuccessful guy from the @bridgeburn site who rarely posts there anymore who was similar. He started a thread that ended abruptly without any of the promised pics. That's why I am adamant about pics being taking over time which lessens the tendency of people to use unfair lighting or to use hairspray or other things that cling to and thicken hair. Most of us are too scarred to post though and I get that. Pictures of our heads can be like being naked to many of us. I still don't want to post my crown much because that was where I first noticed hair loss.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I have already answered many times why estrogen is counterproductive and disadvantageous in terms of results and side effects. Estrogen either doesn't help at all, or it completely destroys your T and causes severe feminization. We need an intermediate option, not this
Progesterone ... I don't know much about it, but it seems to block E, badly blocks T and DHT
Yes but currently your intermediate option if it's not provera is the null set. Everything you tout increases estrogen levels and/or lowers T levels. Bica is often touted as best for breast growth and AA's can start incipient breast growth just like estrogen.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Posted by
u/Ambrosia25

3 years ago


A ranking of AAs in terms of Safety, Effectiveness, Tolerability and Cost (inexpensiveness)​

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The safest way? That would be transdermal estradiol. The former is an [estrogen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen_(medication)) and will cause feminization (e.g., breast development, feminine fat distribution, mental changes, etc.) while the latter is essentially an antiandrogen and will turn off sex hormone production by your gonads and reduce your testosterone levels by about 95%. This combination is about as safe as you can get (not really differing much from what cisgender women have from a safety standpoint) and wouldn't really have any risks. It would also probably be the best regimen you could be on in terms of effectiveness and side effects.
That regimen might be pretty expensive though. The risks with hormones for transgender people overall are actually pretty low in general. There are other things that you could take that technically would be more "risky" but that would still have very low absolute risk and that might be much less expensive. Examples include oral or sublingual estradiol and other antiandrogens like spironolactone, cyproterone acetate, and bicalutamide.
Of these antiandrogens, spironolactone and bicalutamide are reasonably safe (although potassium monitoring is recommended with the former and liver monitoring is recommended with the latter) whereas cyproterone acetate has higher risks. Here is how I'd roughly rank the antiandrogens in terms of safety, effectiveness, tolerability (side effects), and cost (all in combination with an estrogen):
  • Safety: GnRH analogues > Spironolactone ≥ Bicalutamide >> Cyproterone acetate.
  • Effectiveness: GnRH analogues > Cyproterone acetate > Bicalutamide > Spironolactone.
  • Tolerability: GnRH analogues = Bicalutamide > Spironolactone > Cyproterone acetate.
  • Cost (inexpensiveness): Cyproterone acetate > Spironolactone > Bicalutamide >> GnRH analogues.
As an alternative, you could do higher-dose estrogen without an antiandrogen or with only a low dose of bicalutamide. Estrogens are actually antiandrogens themselves and can suppress testosterone levels by 95% similarly to GnRH analogues (link. However, you need higher estradiol levels than usual to achieve that. These higher levels may come with some safety risks like an increased risk of blood clots. However, the absolute risk would still be very low and that is particularly true for someone your age. [Note: the age of the OP which this comment was replying to is 17/18. The thread this post first appeared in can be read here.]
The pages linked above plus [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone_replacement_therapy_(male-to-female)) article would be good places to start reading up on hormones.
 

Almas

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Yes but currently your intermediate option if it's not provera is the null set. Everything you tout increases estrogen levels and/or lowers T levels. Bica is often touted as best for breast growth and AA's can start incipient breast growth just like estrogen.
Bicalutamide does not raise E too much to induce significant breast growth. But even if you take a dose of 75mg at which it is possible, it still does not feminize as much as the destruction of T by estrogen. Bicalutamide leads to demasculinization, but not feminization. You do not lose muscle mass, your fat is not redistributed. Don't equate this with estrogen therapy, because Bica doesn't destroy your T like estrogen does.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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This person is the head of Transfeminine Science and Kay also writes a lot there. They will answer specific question you want to pose, Almas but I am just posting studies and excerpts of studies so people can decide for themselves. I have no horse in this race but you seem to feel as though you understand all of this better than others and perhaps you do but the proof at least anecdotally for you is in the pudding. Instead you are conjecturing about endocrine factors that often don't make sense in terms of conjecture. A lot of this field is lightly tested and studied so often anecdotal reports are all that we have.

Anything by this gal is worth taking a look at. I don't encounter many folks that I necessarily defer to but I do defer to her and Kay generally as they read and write research papers with alacrity and precision.

 

JaneyElizabeth

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Posted by
u/JaneyElizabeth

just now


Is the use of an AA only a suitable form of HRT for feminization or hair loss?​

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Maybe Aly or Kay or Pawops have an opinion on this but this is to any of you esteemed intellects and students of the the entire nuts and bolts of HRT for all uses.

I keep running into guys who want to use say 150mg of Bica daily to regrow hair. The idea of going single shot with an AA for MtF purposes (directionally, not in terms of gender) has often been presented on here as dangerous past say 90 days. I think Wpath allows 90 days to re-set the axis although not many do this in practice.

These XY's want the hair growth benefits but claim that Bica does not interfere with anabolic muscle growth or retention, nor does it impact libido, erectile capacity or breast growth.

It all sounds specious to me but mine is more so to present studies to others since my protocol is working like a dream and as always, I attribute this to Goddess and Goddess bless.
 
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Almas

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These XY's want the hair growth benefits but claim that Bica does not interfere with anabolic muscle growth or retention, nor does it impact libido, erectile capacity or breast growth.
Bicalutamide affects libido and breast growth, I have never argued otherwise. I just said that this is not as strong an effect as estrogen monotherapy
 

Gergely

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Bicalutamide affects libido and breast growth, I have never argued otherwise. I just said that this is not as strong an effect as estrogen monotherapy
I don't think estrogen monotherapy without dht blockers would cause gyno, although as everything it depends on the person in question.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Bicalutamide affects libido and breast growth, I have never argued otherwise. I just said that this is not as strong an effect as estrogen monotherapy
And your anecdotal results will be important to the community but I tried to find an intermediate path and after 6.5 years, I gave up and let copious E2 and then oral min from topical do their thing. Maybe you will be more successful but I am trying to find protocols that I know have worked at least for someone, for both XX's and XY's. It's even harder finding a protocol with the females who PM me for help strangely enough and not much research is done on female hair loss. Let's see if Kay or Aly chime in as I aim to serve and posted a question that I believe incorporates your beliefs or hopes related to single shot use of Bica.

We just seem to lack absolutes in HRT. Some get all hair back; some get none; some get large breasts; most get little to none. I don't hear many complaints about daily sides regarding Bica or Provera or Progesterone or Estrogen but essentially, my belief is that if a person raises their E2 levels high enough, full restoration is possible for all but the largest balding scalps which often lack even any fringe to speak of, which is often seen close to lands closest to the Mediterranean Sea which means Middle of the Earth Sea so it's also the center of the baldness gene apparently and the gene gets weaker the farther away that one goes. But in general, it is hard-wired as I call it in Europeans, Arabs and Jews or folks with genes partially deriving therefrom.
 
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Pls_NW-1

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I wonder how @Ein is able to run Bicalutamide+Spironolactone+Finasteride all together just for hair, and it works. He says that he plans to stay on it for ever... and he see's no problem there.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I wonder how @Ein is able to run Bicalutamide+Spironolactone+Finasteride all together just for hair, and it works. He says that he plans to stay on it for ever... and he see's no problem there.
I am just as curious. But one thing might be relevant risk related to cost/benefit analysis. Is this person testing? Has his face feminized? So there is both a safety issue and a feminization issue. We all know that increasing E2 has stereotypical facial and body effects and less so hair effects but yeah. Pretty much anyone okay with being "pretty" has a great shot at significant improvement hair-wise. @bridgeburn continued to go by male pronouns but he had far more breast growth than normal and his face got more and more female. He didn't even need beard removal as his beard started getting light and patchy on its own without removal which is rare. I highly doubt that he can pass as male now without losing those locks. I don't believe that HRT necessary turns a person female but anecdotally and not from me but from the boards, some claim increasing attraction to males as a side effect but this is probably just repressed feelings in my opinion. MtF on here indicates direction more so than identity, at least for me and my writings.

Anyone bald at first glance we take as male. It's an efficient system for making decisions about who might be dangerous in life and who isn't. White females instinctively, if not overtly, use height, beard growth and hair length to make snap decisions from a distance about gender. They are not trying to misgender anyone and it is silly when MtF's who are very tall or have stubble or short hair get upset if they are misgendered. Put on a dress or skirt and I promise such folks that they won't be misgendered. A boob job helps here too. As I often say, there's a reason why HRT for baldness for guys hasn't been a thing until hormones became widely available because it has been deemed impossible to use HRT for hair purposes without feminization and this has pretty much always been known. So maybe this is another situation where people need to try Serms or await other meds.
 
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Pls_NW-1

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I am just as curious. But one thing might be relevant risk related to cost/benefit analysis. Is this person testing? Has his face feminized? So there is both a safety issue and a feminization issue. We all know that increasing E2 has stereotypical facial and body effects and less so hair effects but yeah. Pretty much anyone okay with being "pretty" has a great shot at significant improvement hair-wise. @bridgeburn continued to go by male pronouns but he had far more breast growth than normal and his face got more and more female. I highly doubt that he can pass as male now without losing those locks. I don't believe that HRT necessary turns a person female but anecdotally and not from me but from the boards, some claim increasing attraction to males as a side effect but this is probably just repressed feelings in my opinion. MtF on here indicates direction more so than identity, at least for me and my writings.

Anyone bald at first glance we take as male. It's an efficient system for making decisions about who might be dangerous in life and who isn't. White females instinctively, if not overtly, use height, beard growth and hair length to make snap decisions from a distance about gender. There are not trying to misgender anyone and it is silly when MtF's who are very tall or have stubble or short hair to get upset if they are misgendered. Put on a dress or skirt and I promise such folks that they won't be misgendered. A boob job helps here too. As I often say, there's a reason why HRT for baldness for guys hasn't been a thing until hormones became widely available because it has been deemed impossible to use HRT for hair purposes without feminization and this has pretty much always been known. So maybe this is another situation where people need to try Serms or await other meds.
He says that he "reversed" his puberty or well... "freezed" it altogether. He has a neotenic look now and he is happy. He also stated once that Bicalutamide was his best choice in his life and that he got his dad convinced to take it as well.

Fuc*in amazing lol
 

Almas

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I am just as curious. But one thing might be relevant risk related to cost/benefit analysis. Is this person testing? Has his face feminized? So there is both a safety issue and a feminization issue. We all know that increasing E2 has stereotypical facial and body effects and less so hair effects but yeah. Pretty much anyone okay with being "pretty" has a great shot at significant improvement hair-wise. @bridgeburn continued to go by male pronouns but he had far more breast growth than normal and his face got more and more female. I highly doubt that he can pass as male now without losing those locks. I don't believe that HRT necessary turns a person female but anecdotally and not from me but from the boards, some claim increasing attraction to males as a side effect but this is probably just repressed feelings in my opinion. MtF on here indicates direction more so than identity, at least for me and my writings.

Anyone bald at first glance we take as male. It's an efficient system for making decisions about who might be dangerous in life and who isn't. White females instinctively, if not overtly, use height, beard growth and hair length to make snap decisions from a distance about gender. They are not trying to misgender anyone and it is silly when MtF's who are very tall or have stubble or short hair get upset if they are misgendered. Put on a dress or skirt and I promise such folks that they won't be misgendered. A boob job helps here too. As I often say, there's a reason why HRT for baldness for guys hasn't been a thing until hormones became widely available because it has been deemed impossible to use HRT for hair purposes without feminization and this has pretty much always been known. So maybe this is another situation where people need to try Serms or await other meds.
Ein wrote to me that the face became more puffy. Also, users of Bicalutamide report that the cheeks become more feminine. I assume that facial features become softer
 

JaneyElizabeth

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He says that he "reversed" his puberty or well... "freezed" it altogether. He has a neotenic look now and he is happy. He also stated once that Bicalutamide was his best choice in his life and that he got his dad convinced to take it as well.

Fuc*in amazing lol
Okay. So we are talking about someone just emerging from male puberty. Yes, there can be differences but surprisingly few for older gals except our 2nd puberty can be far more revolutionary. And yes, neotenic looks are deemed by men and women often to greatly increase facial attractiveness with a dip related to women in estrus actually preferring smelly, virile men with more masculine face shapes as they might be associated with higher T, higher fertility, larger phalluses and fun frolicking in bed. For regular partners, they prefer childish/feminine face shapes with features relatively large as per mouths and eyes and smaller noses, lack of all beard growth and full heads of hair.

Bica seems to be especially good as a replacement for puberty blockers which are outlandishly expensive and often unavailable without prescription and the folks at reddit mention their productive use in place of Gnrh's.
 

Pls_NW-1

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Okay. So we are talking about someone just emerging from male puberty. Yes, there can be differences but surprisingly few for older gals except our 2nd puberty can be far more revolutionary. And yes, neotenic looks are deemed by men and women often to greatly increase facial attractiveness with a dip related to women in estrus actually preferring smelly, virile men with more masculine face shapes as they might be associated with higher T, higher fertility, larger phalluses and fun frolicking in bed. For regular partners, they prefer childish/feminine face shapes with features relatively large as per mouths and eyes and smaller noses, lack of all beard growth and full heads of hair.

Bica seems to be especially good as a replacement for puberty blockers which are outlandishly expensive and often unavailable without prescription and the folks at reddit mention their productive use in place of Grnh's.
I prefer the neotenic look personally. I want to keep my look lol >being a manga character lmao
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I prefer the neotenic look personally. I want to keep my look lol >being a manga character lmao
Manga is the epitome of the look and Asians appear to lack as much sexual dimorphism compared to whites related to hair, beards and face.

Bambi is a cherished MtF name and the character embodies neotenic features:

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As did Rudolph originally but then he androgenized and eh....
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Bambi, our hero :D
I have several that live in my backyard. They are amazingly quick and graceful and love to eat your sun-grown weed. They can bound over fences with ease but they are far from exotic any longer and many live close to DC and Pittsburgh. I always laugh at the hunters who don't bag any prey as i could easily have great eating with a bow and arrow permit for residential deer.

My ex and I have both had deer run into our cars and it's actually a different insurance category from other accidents.
 
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