Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

200 aint' good enough! pregnancy is like 2000!! >)

C'est moi, ca!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I've heard people say estriol is too weak, but can't hurt, you could need a good amount though... also I remember seeing some people doing trials in 2018 on here... don't think there was any big progress and the thread fizzled out completely from what I remember.

It did indeed....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I have zero T, or very close to it. I feel I am more than a man. I am a god. The God of Hair.

Sigh. God is a male concept used to oppress other genders. Anywhere where there is a prevailing notion that the Divine is male, we see war and oppression of people who don't conform to male and female stereotypes. At least use Hermes or his child for the divinity. This is somewhat tongue in cheek as Bridge appears to be completely unbiased in action but the concept is similar to using "they" for unknown people.... We will get there!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

we are rebels against nature.. for some reason people find that disturbing.

There we go! @148

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's a dream for me to completely get rid of my facial hair; I have gone through a dozen of laser hair removal treatments for my facial hair and it has reduced the hair by around 70%, which is drastic. But I do believe that spironolactone and estradiol will additionally reduce my facial hair growth, which is inordinately desirable for me.

How much of an increase of scalp hair have you noticed? And what Norwood would you say you are now? (And what were you previously).

This is why MtFs even non-gendered might consider themselves female for oral Min dosages. I similarly have spent loads of beard removal of all three types, IPL, Laser and Electrocution and 'taint cheap. My beard had gotten scratchy again so I halved my oral Min dosage.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Estriol, unlike estradiol, increases my libido, makes me more androgenic, impulsive and so forth.

It does this by displacing estradiol from the estrogen receptor and since estriol is a weaker estrogen (by 100x or something), it will in fact block the strong estrogen from doing its job. The end effect is less estrogenic activity and more androgen dominance. It is basically a natural 'RU' for estrogen.

Think about it. Anything that increases your androgenicity, libido, etc. cannot be good for your hair in the long run.

It won't grow hair even remotely to the extent that most people on here want to my knowledge. It is largely unused by MtF's and requires huge amounts but tell us more about your hair success since we have open minds here...

Estriol is more of an experimental hair growth med in my opinion likely to work far better for cis-females and I see little evidence that it spares breast growth among males using it. Again, this E2/E3 conjecture seems to be a dead-end leading nowhere just like all of the rest the experimental guys keep touting. We do appreciate the research since showing what doesn't work is often more important than showing what does. @150

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Um.. wat?

The USP label means a great deal and validates it's authenticity.

As the practice of pharmacy grew, medicines were increasingly made not only by pharmacists but by commercial providers. Companies like Eli Lily began to include “U.S.P.” on their product labels to indicate to pharmacists, medical practitioners and patients that the product was made in accordance with the quality standards of the United States Pharmacopeia.

These three letters convey a great deal of information to the healthcare practitioner. They let the pharmacist or doctor know that the medicine or product in the bottle meets several key quality attributes that are necessary to ensure the medicine will perform as expected. USP standards for the following quality indicators are based on laboratory testing.

• Identity–is the product what it claims to be
• Potency–is it present in the right amount
• Purity–is it free from impurities, contaminants or other unwanted ingredients
• Performance–will it dissolve and disintegrate in the body so the active ingredient can be absorbed

Thank you for this so much.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

It's weird because ... I saw a lot of before-after MTF HRT pictures and I was sure it was the opposite. With estradiol the skin looks lighter. Women have also lighter skin than men ... at least that what I think. Am I wrong?

This is not in doubt for any race to my knowledge. Male skin is coarser and darker and before and after MtF pics can be astonishing in terms of skin tone change. @152

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

reddit is the cesspool of the internet; why are you using it as some sort of fact checker?

MagicalGirlMarina

Trans Woman | 31 | Straight | HRT 10/06/173 points·1 year ago

Your skin does change due to HRT. Specifically, your skin become thinner, you lose some collagen production, oil production lessens, and you lose some melanin. Thus, your skin becomes softer; lighter in color; your pores shrink; and becomes more prone to tearing, irritation from shaving, bruising, sunburn, moisture loss, and stretch marks.

level 2
mid-brow_undertones

Trans woman - HRT 4/172 points·1 year ago

Doesn't collagen production go up with estrogen?




lol

Now, I have to get off here. The standards on Transfeminine Sciences are in no way anything but the highest. Virtually every single thing that Bridge asserts can be verified there. The advice given by volunteers with several researchers moderating is exceptionally high on AskMtFHRT and Trans DIY which have pretty much overlapping readers and contributors.:-(

 

[Almas]

I want to dispel the myth that Bicalutamide will make you worse if you do not use an AR blocker
If we look at PSA values, then monotherapy with Bicalutamide reduces them by 90 +%, although there is a high concentration of DHT in the prostate. If Bicalutamide did not cope with DHT, the indicators would not fall so much

The addition of the 5AP inhibitor only slightly enhances the effect; Bicalutamide does most of the work by itself. He cannot raise your T or DHT more than he can block.
Ein used 50mg of Bica without finasteride and got results. He hooked up finasteride later

@Pls_NW-1

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Do you mind sharing your explanation?

It raises testosterone by 30-90%. So the DHT concentration will be raised as well, and then you need a MUCH higher dose of bica to block all those androgens. A 5ARi will lessen the competition for the AR.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

This is simply not true although people like to say so. Transfeminine Sciences breaks out the risk factors for the various AA's and bica is worse for the liver than spironolactone and CPA is worse than either but they all work about the same for hair loss and feminization.

Stop quoting me

This is simply not true although people like to say so. Transfeminine Sciences breaks out the risk factors for the various AA's and bica is worse for the liver than spironolactone and CPA is worse than either but they all work about the same for hair loss and feminization.

spirimolactone is litterally a diuretic and will mess up your electrolytes and give you a more dehydrated look. It’s flutamide that’s mildly damaging to the liver not bicalutamide.

Please stop quoting me, especially year old posts... I’m not interested in your opinion not this subject anymore

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I want to dispel the myth that Bicalutamide will make you worse if you do not use an AR blocker
If we look at PSA values, then monotherapy with Bicalutamide reduces them by 90 +%, although there is a high concentration of DHT in the prostate. If Bicalutamide did not cope with DHT, the indicators would not fall so much

The addition of the 5AP inhibitor only slightly enhances the effect; Bicalutamide does most of the work by itself. He cannot raise your T or DHT more than he can block.
Ein used 50mg of Bica without finasteride and got results. He hooked up finasteride later

@Pls_NW-1

Ok. Good to know, thank you very much!

 

[Almas]

I just discussed this with E-Kitten and I have posted every single thing that Bridge has said about this the last two nights specifically with the two of you in mind and none of us agree with either of you. You are on your own. I can't keep going around in circles with you on this because it is dangerous for others to keep seeing this articulated out of the ether. This is not safe even in the short-run and how long are you going to run something that eats up your bones and liver? 3 years? 10? 50? MtF's use their meds for years and years. 90 days is the best that I can indicate that wpath might allow for.

I recommend highly against this. Bica is used as a blocker for puberty aged girls but no MtF's agree with you. None to my knowledge. Goddess bless and I like both of your thoroughly but you are putting forth information that might be selectively true in constrained instances but do you two think you have figured out something that none of us MtF's can understand?

Guys, I went an entire year on only 200 mg spironolactone and a minuscule 1.25 mg of Premarin and it was the worst year physically of my life. Every single stereotype about MtF HRT was true for me. I was weak as a lamb. I sweated constantly. I couldn't sleep without a salt shaker. I had to pee 20 times daily. I couldn't open the damn peanut butter jar. All, all! of my hair fell out. As soon as I stopped spironolactone and upped E2 every single side stopped and my strength and fatigue went away immediately. My hair has grown back maybe not yet like bridge's but most folks cannot believe my feminization or progress. YMMV but I would back a winner and not stake out a claim on this but if you do, you really belong on the experimental threads. I would hate to see you go but I am not a doctor and I disagree with you both. CPA and MPA are both better paths and I have used MPA at 10 mg for two years without a single side except good ones.

Even MTF considers Bicalutamide to be a good choice. You yourself posted the link to Reddit and Bicalutamide is considered a good, if not the best choice
Bicalutamide does not cause osteoporosis, and Bridgburn knew about it. Bicalutamide rarely causes liver problems, if there are no negative reactions in the first half of the year, you can be calm. This is all that can be read in research
All cases of hepatoxicity occurred in the first 1-6 months of admission and in the elderly. It has more to do with individual intolerance.

In the EPC trial, bicalutamide-induced liver changes were usually transient and rarely severe.[8] The medication was discontinued due to liver changes (manifested as hepatitis or marked increases in liver enzymes) in approximately 0.3% to 1% of patients treated with it for prostate cancer in clinical trials.[59][111

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Even MTF considers Bicalutamide to be a good choice. You yourself posted the link to Reddit and Bicalutamide is considered a good, if not the best choice
Bicalutamide does not cause osteoporosis, and Bridgburn knew about it. Bicalutamide rarely causes liver problems, if there are no negative reactions in the first half of the year, you can be calm. This is all that can be read in research
All cases of hepatoxicity occurred in the first 1-6 months of admission and in the elderly. It has more to do with individual intolerance.

In the EPC trial, bicalutamide-induced liver changes were usually transient and rarely severe.[8] The medication was discontinued due to liver changes (manifested as hepatitis or marked increases in liver enzymes) in approximately 0.3% to 1% of patients treated with it for prostate cancer in clinical trials.[59][111

Then what are you waiting for? Are you on any meds at all? Are you even losing your hair? I don't get what your goals are. We are conflating two things here. Is bica safe? It's about as safe as spironolactone and probably safer than CPA in the long-run and short-run. The two people I respect most on the boards say that CPA is the least safe, then Bica or spironolactone, they differ on as safest in the long-run. Most agree that bica appears to have the least substantial sides in terms of different sides alluded too.

MtF's complain about all three constantly with spironolactone, it being mostly the intense immediate life-constraining sides. Nobody agrees which of the three is most efficacious for feminization. I know of no study that differentiates hair effects from feminization effects in terms of efficacy. From what i see again and again and again, people switch constantly between them and here's my joke:

What's the most popular AA among MtF's? It's the one that she hasn't tried yet. I see zero people who complain about E2 only unless they for some reason struggle to hit targets. It's not the bica. Again and again, its the estradiol that mediates the hair growth.

I am going to ask again, do you know why AA's are used by MtF's historically and why this is mostly since 2008 and no, it doesn't have to do with bica being more effective. It is not.
Many more people use CPA and MPA and spironolactone in my estimation.

So why have AA's suddenly become an issue for MtF's after not being used much in the past? Largely since 2008?

What's the reason? Hint. Did estrogen all of a sudden stop working?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Stop quoting me

spirimolactone is litterally a diuretic and will mess up your electrolytes and give you a more dehydrated look. It’s flutamide that’s mildly damaging to the liver not bicalutamide.

Please stop quoting me, especially year old posts... I’m not interested in your opinion not this subject anymore

I agree about spironolactone. I am trying to take the dross and impolite rantings from a massive thread so folks can have some idea about what Bridge actually said. spironolactone is garbage for many but it does grow hair or at least help mediate it's regrowth. I followed your thread with interest when you promised another way forward and it mysteriously stopped. But you seem to often be of ill-temper whenever I see your posts by accident so I do my best to avoid you lest you snap at me and call me stupid. Hair loss can make anyone angry and I understand the disappointment when theories don't pan out.

Good luck.

 

[Almas]

I have aggressive baldness, my temples and hairline have been destroyed, although the follicles are still alive and producing fine, transparent hair. I'm waiting for thickening. The sides above the ears also thin

I didn't understand what you want to say next. I can only say that Bicalutamide is the ideal cure for baldness, this is our last hope. Spironolactone has more side effects than you mentioned yourself. Bicalutamide has only one side effect: breast development, but as you can see, feminization and hair growth are inseparable from each other. I talked about the effects on the liver and refuted the effects on the heart. So I don't know what you want to say

 

[Almas]

Are you appealing to the authority of Bridgeburn? He is not an expert and his regime is not the most reasonable, you should not consider his opinion and regime as the ultimate truth.

 

[Almas]

Our opinions differ greatly. I, Ein, Ikarus, DHTcel - we all have different opinions on how to properly treat baldness. I agree with some statements, but not with some. This fall, we will get closer to solving the problem, because we will find out what my treatment option will give, which repeats Ein's version

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I have aggressive baldness, my temples and hairline have been destroyed, although the follicles are still alive and producing fine, transparent hair. I'm waiting for thickening. The sides above the ears also thin

I didn't understand what you want to say next. I can only say that Bicalutamide is the ideal cure for baldness, this is our last hope. Spironolactone has more side effects than you mentioned yourself. Bicalutamide has only one side effect: breast development, but as you can see, feminization and hair growth are inseparable from each other. I talked about the effects on the liver and refuted the effects on the heart. So I don't know what you want to say

But are you actually taking bica or just trying to promote it? That's what I don't get. It seems like you are wanting approval.

Here's the answer. Prior to 2008, most MtF's used either CEE's (Premarin) or (ethinyl estradiol). Many still state or at least some, that these two meds work better than the bio-identical estrogens especially for breast growth which is what MtF's seek. Hair loss is not a focus of MtF medication and I don't believe that bica is marketed for hair loss except for cis-females.

However, there begin to be two movements at once. First was a movement against synthetic meds that are used daily hence doctors began to switch to bio-identical estrogens. However the doctors did not understand the distinction between parenteral estradiol and oral swallowed bio-identical estradiol. Instead they simply began prescribing less estrogen in general. What then happened is that MtF's began struggling with feminization because they were not meeting adult female targets on the weaker bio-identical pills. So then as a band-aid, they started to prescribe several anti-androgens to help MtF's meet targets. People began believing that estradiol was incapable of inducing adult female target levels at these lower strengths and then/now, it reached a point where still, many MtF's don't believe that complete feminization is possible without AA's. So now MtF's are on at least two meds instead of just one and they are still being forced to take a synthetic med essentially forever.

Then the re-action came when many MtF's realized that this was ill-thought out medicine that had become inertial when many of the MtF's using syringes found that they were feminizing quickly and without issue with only injected estradiol. Of course, then many of us were like what the heck. These doctors are holding us hostage because they won't prescribe correctly. Even bio-identical E2 is harder on the liver than parenteral or SL estradiol in the long run. The goal is not to process things via the liver. Why would we want a synthetic cancer med when estradiol only worked better for many of us.

Because of this reaction, and for dubious breast-growth purposes, Dr. Will Powers starting touting bica as better and safer than spironolactone, CPA and MPA. It might be safer than those slightly but it is definitely less safe than processing bica when E2 is an endogenous hormone. Then there was this counter-reaction cause the Powers people started ridiculing all of wpath as a bunch of gatekeepers and the non-binary movement, at least in the U.S. opened the gates to folks like me. Before you had to agree to SRS before they would take you as a patient. With the internet, offshore vendors moved in and the the more radical began finding their own solutions.

To my knowledge there is no one who believes that bica plus estradiol is safer than estradiol only. How could it be? Because of Powers another cohort began singing the praises of bica as better, not just safer. It is not better for feminization. If you have a link indication that bica is better for feminization, then I will look at it. Somehow, you seem to believe that because some believe that bica is better for boobs that it's also better for hair. There's little evidence that it's better or worse for either to my knowledge but of course estradiol only is safer for the liver than using two things with one of them synthetic and processed through the liver. Furthermore many of us or most use far less than the hair proponents are using. 5-10 mg of CPA is fine. Bridge to my knowledge was using far too much of the AA's but it was only three years. I don't know what he's doing know. 12.5mg of Bica, I believe is the amount that most MtF's use of bica.

So I am still trying to understand why you think bica is a hair med somehow. It's used because it is far safer than flutamide, not spironolactone. We are all individuals and for some one works better but none of them work better than estradiol only under most circumstances. So I just don't get what you are driving at.

Are you going to use bica? I just can't follow you guy. Maybe it's the translator.

Maybe you think that using bica for hair loss for men is less feminizing to men but what leads you to believe that? Or are you anti-RI? I just don't have any idea what the purposes of your posts are.




So the usage of bica has little to nothing to do with it working better for feminization.