Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Pls_NW-1]

Do you have any blood works done? LH, testosteron, estradiol, SHBG, thyroid values?
PS: btw, how do you feel on finasteride? Any ED issues?

All alright. Just T a bit too low, almost at the lowest range possible and E on the higher numbers (serum).

The problem is DHEA-S. Mine is extremly high, abnormally.

I did bloodwork again ago 4 weeks. Reulsts will come in 2-4 weeks, will update here everyone.

I am doing great on Finasteride! It's like eating some candies n' sweets. Lol

 

[Fuchsilein]

Guys, you are unlikely to get around gyno since none of you seem to use SERMs. I don't get why you waste money on bica. Use high dosages of estrogen, 6mg or higher, which actually does regrow hair and suppresses testosterone anyway. Initial high dosages of estrogen seem also to be related with poor breast development according to various studies, although there is dispute, it seems to be the case. You are doing yourself a disservice with your low-dose + expensive blocker approach. You're wasting time and money.

 

[Fuchsilein]

Bica > tits
E2 > tits + castration + clit

I dont know what you mean with E2 > clit. Do you think you grow a vagina when you use E? Look, the choice is on you. Use E for a period of time and regain your hair or waste your money on bica and stay where you are and grow tits anyway.

 

[Almas]

Guys, you are unlikely to get around gyno since none of you seem to use SERMs. I don't get why you waste money on bica. Use high dosages of estrogen, 6mg or higher, which actually does regrow hair and suppresses testosterone anyway. Initial high dosages of estrogen seem also to be related with poor breast development according to various studies, although there is dispute, it seems to be the case. You are doing yourself a disservice with your low-dose + expensive blocker approach. You're wasting time and money.

Are you offering us HRT for life? Destroy the production of T and make E the main hormone? This is madness. I'm pretty fearless, but even it scares me

Studies in mice, go with human clinical studies mate. Avodart stops dhts effects. There is clinical studies to prove that. Bic will stop T’s effects by blocking the receptor, the dht is blocked if u use 5ar?! Im I wrong here? I don’t think bic can even compete with dht mate, it’s affinity is too high.

how long have u been on bic, any results? Regrowth?

Avodart blocks only 55% of DHT in the scalp. The remaining 45% continues to destroy your hair. Bicalutamide blocks both T and DHT. That is why it lowers PSA by 90%, although DHT is the main hormone in the prostate area
I am using too little Bicalutamide to see results. I wait for them in the summer

 

[Almas]

I dont know what you mean with E2 > clit. Do you think you grow a vagina when you use E? Look, the choice is on you. Use E for a period of time and regain your hair or waste your money on bica and stay where you are and grow tits anyway.

On Bicalutamide, you will only have gynecomastia. Personally, I have no signs of breast growth even at a high dose.

 

[CrushG]

On Bicalutamide, you will only have gynecomastia. Personally, I have no signs of breast growth even at a high dose.

Do you expirience any sort of ED on bica? Morning wood is still present?

 

[Derelict]

50mg bica has pretty much the same rate of gyno as 200mg spironolactone. If you are going to use it the gyno shouldn't be all that bad i would imagine. Guess it depends on your definition of bad i guess.

 

[Almas]

Do you expirience any sort of ED on bica? Morning wood is still present?

All perfectly. I have not noticed any new side effects on Bicalutamide, I do not see a difference between Bicalutamide + Finasteride and just Finasteride
The only thing that has changed is less ejaculate. Orgasms haven't changed

On the positive side, my skin is no longer oily, it is very comfortable, I no longer suffer from a layer of fat on my face

 

[Almas]

My skin has never been so smooth and beautiful

 

[Reciprocity]

Guys, you are unlikely to get around gyno since none of you seem to use SERMs. I don't get why you waste money on bica. Use high dosages of estrogen, 6mg or higher, which actually does regrow hair and suppresses testosterone anyway. Initial high dosages of estrogen seem also to be related with poor breast development according to various studies, although there is dispute, it seems to be the case. You are doing yourself a disservice with your low-dose + expensive blocker approach. You're wasting time and money.

I can see where you are coming from but from what I understand the effects of supplementing estrogen may not be reversible for males whereas the effects of surpressing your testosterone levels are.

 

[CrushG]

@Almas , btw, what was your estradiol level, before you started the therapy?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Any thoughts on using cyclodextrins as a topical E2 delivery mechanism to avoid systemic effects?

Drug Targeting to the Hair Follicles: A Cyclodextrin-Based Drug Delivery - PMC

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I couldn't make heads or tails out of this. Generally, estrogen appears to need to go systemic to work although there could be localized estrogenic effects as well. I tend to believe in a blunt force attack, meaning a protocol that lifts estrogen levels even higher than with an adult cisgender female, and then you have to maintain those levels for 9 to 24 months. If you can do that, like bridgeburn or me, and if a person ignores sheds, then all but complete restoration is possible. @bridgeburn and I both had extensive breast growth however so such high persistent levels to be great for hair might also feminize much more completely.

 

[Almas]

@Almas , btw, what was your estradiol level, before you started the therapy?

I don't know my levels

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Fuchsilein said:


Guys, you are unlikely to get around gyno since none of you seem to use SERMs. I don't get why you waste money on bica. Use high dosages of estrogen, 6mg or higher, which actually does regrow hair and suppresses testosterone anyway. Initial high dosages of estrogen seem also to be related with poor breast development according to various studies, although there is dispute, it seems to be the case. You are doing yourself a disservice with your low-dose + expensive blocker approach. You're wasting time and money.

This is an excellent comment and is basically what I have arrived at. If you want success via the HRT route, then be prepared to shoot for very high estrogen levels for at least a year. A person needs a shed strategy because people who drop out because of sheds never get any where. Many people on this thread in the past have dropped out due to shedding, which was often correlated with the use of CPA or spironolactone. I have basically huge knockers and I did exactly what Mr. Fuchsilein (or Ms.) indicated. Several years of low-dose CEE's followed by ten months now of pregnancy levels of estrogen and it you truly fear breasts (which are very rare, I swear) then start on something like 6mg to 8 mg SL and that should put most people far above ~200 pg/ml to ~300 pg/ml that is often shot for. The psychological effects of estrogen can be so soothing that people might be addicted to the feelings from the higher estrogen levels. Estrogen is like weed while T is like Ritalin, creating a very charged mindset. I like to joke that people who try HRT can check out any time that they want, but they can never leave.....

 

[Almas]

Fuchsilein said:


Guys, you are unlikely to get around gyno since none of you seem to use SERMs. I don't get why you waste money on bica. Use high dosages of estrogen, 6mg or higher, which actually does regrow hair and suppresses testosterone anyway. Initial high dosages of estrogen seem also to be related with poor breast development according to various studies, although there is dispute, it seems to be the case. You are doing yourself a disservice with your low-dose + expensive blocker approach. You're wasting time and money.

This is an excellent comment and is basically what I have arrived at. If you want success via the HRT route, then be prepared to shoot for very high estrogen levels for at least a year. A person needs a shed strategy because people who drop out because of sheds never get any where. Many people on this thread in the past have dropped out due to shedding, which was often correlated with the use of CPA or spironolactone. I have basically huge knockers and I did exactly what Mr. Fuchsilein (or Ms.) indicated. Several years of low-dose CEE's followed by ten months now of pregnancy levels of estrogen and it you truly fear breasts (which are very rare, I swear) then start on something like 6mg to 8 mg SL and that should put most people far above ~200 pg/ml to ~300 pg/ml that is often shot for. The psychological effects of estrogen can be so soothing that people might be addicted to the feelings from the higher estrogen levels. Estrogen is like weed while T is like Ritalin, creating a very charged mindset. I like to joke that people who try HRT can check out any time that they want, but they can never leave.....

You are not considering that:
1) Many people want to keep or slightly thicken their hair, and not grow it out. People need to stop baldness
2) None of the cis guys want to use E all their lives. Therefore, we return to the first point: we need support.

I want to try high doses of estrogen in the future with breast removal surgery, but since I don't want to use this all my life, I need supportive therapy anyway. And Bicalutamide is the best option for support

 

[Almas]

What levels of E do I need to achieve, how can I get them to grow without injections?
I was thinking about using 2-4mg E per day in pill form sublingually, is that not enough? I don't have bald areas, I just want to lengthen the vellus hair and make it thick terminal, so maybe I don't need too high doses? I'm afraid to destroy my T production forever with high doses

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

You are not considering that:
1) Many people want to keep or slightly thicken their hair, and not grow it out. People need to stop baldness
2) None of the cis guys want to use E all their lives. Therefore, we return to the first point: we need support.

I want to try high doses of estrogen in the future with breast removal surgery, but since I don't want to use this all my life, I need supportive therapy anyway. And Bicalutamide is the best option for support

There are a lot of things that people want but we have very little articulation of outcomes involving sub-adult female cis-gender estrogen levels. I think that Estrogel can be protective perhaps for maintenance more so than restoration but you pays your money and you takes your chances. Now you are considering estradiol when before you were not but you really won't know until your meds kick in significantly and have a chance within a few months to manifest themselves. We know that the @bridgeburn method works but we don't know about what middling levels are likely to work without feedback on here. Still, you have so little hair loss that people aren't going to be impressed by your results via pics and your results are unlikely necessarily to translate for others. There's a limit to where conjecture can lead us and then things will either pan out or not.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I somehow can't send pictures anymore. Anyone else?

 

[Almas]

There are a lot of things that people want but we have very little articulation of outcomes involving sub-adult female cis-gender estrogen levels. I think that Estrogel can be protective perhaps for maintenance more so than restoration but you pays your money and you takes your chances. Now you are considering estradiol when before you were not but you really won't know until your meds kick in significantly and have a chance within a few months to manifest themselves. We know that the @bridgeburn method works but we don't know about what middling levels are likely to work without feedback on here. Still, you have so little hair loss that people aren't going to be impressed by your results via pics and your results are unlikely necessarily to translate for others. There's a limit to where conjecture can lead us and then things will either pan out or not.

Yes, my results will not be as visually impressive anyway, but that will not diminish their relevance to this forum.
I think we need 200-300 pg/ml E.

 

[CrushG]

Does it make sense to keep axis "alive" while on high doses of estrogen with hCG (250 IU eod for example)?