Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Solxama]

I haven’t disappeared anywhere. I'll be back in a few months
Exactly 2 months of HRT, no dynamics. I have a terrible feeling, but I will wait 6 months for final conclusions.
I banned myself to get rid of the addiction to write here. From now on, I will only write on the case.

@Solxama ,You are on the right track. Удачи.

I read your whole story while lurking this thread, Almas. I hope you manage to save your hair.

And thank you for your words of support. Спасибо брат

Anyway, another small update for everyone, I got a years supply of Estrogel being shipped to me, and a 3 month supply of Bica. It should arrive at my place sometime next week. When I get it I will be very active, posting pictures and updates. I will also start my own thread soon, so everybody is welcome to comment there too.

I can't wait to take my first Bica pill and rub the first dose of Estrogel into my skin. I feel a bit like some kind of mad scientist, about to push the boundaries of my body, about to take a stand against what others consider to be inevitable and about to end the destructive effects of Androgens on my youth and happiness.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I read your whole story while lurking this thread, Almas. I hope you manage to save your hair.

And thank you for your words of support. Спасибо брат

Anyway, another small update for everyone, I got a years supply of Estrogel being shipped to me, and a 3 month supply of Bica. It should arrive at my place sometime next week. When I get it I will be very active, posting pictures and updates. I will also start my own thread soon, so everybody is welcome to comment there too.

I can't wait to take my first Bica pill and rub the first dose of Estrogel into my skin. I feel a bit like some kind of mad scientist, about to push the boundaries of my body, about to take a stand against what others consider to be inevitable and about to end the destructive effects of Androgens on my youth and happiness.

Lol. Year's supply of Estrogel? That's 52 tubes for me! Well. It was just that one time that I used an entire tube in one day, just to see if that would make me Rapunzel overnight and it didn't but the trend was my friend. How tubes did you order?

 

[Solxama]

Lol. Year's supply of Estrogel? That's 52 tubes for me! Well. It was just that one time that I used an entire tube in one day, just to see if that would make me Rapunzel overnight and it didn't but the trend was my friend. How tubes did you order?

I found somebody online who makes 110ml tubes, with 2mg Estradiol per pump. She buys the raw stuff and then compounds it herself. So 2x110 ml, at 6mg a day should last me 332 days, so nearly a year. Can't really disclose much more then that, she wants to remain anonymous. Another person who does the same thing has a site called Otokonoko Pharmaceuticals, its on hrt.cafe, she does 55ml tubes, so still lasts quite some time.

Also I was doing some more introspection lately, in the context of what I'm about to do, and it looks like I was still too afraid to admit some things to myself. I might not have a problem with being referred to as male and having male organs, but it seems I do have some kind of repressed dysphoria over my secondary sexual characteristics, that was dragged out of repression by balding. Since I made the first steps to start HRT it's got a whole lot worse so it's not just a strong preference like I thought before. The most important thing for me is to fix my hair, but I also can't wait to get rid of body and facial hair ASAP, and even a small thought of further masculinization makes me even more sick then before. I don't want to fully become a girl , that has not changed, but it does seem I am dysphoric not only over my hairloss, but about some masculine body characteristics too.

Well at least I found out the cause of why hair loss is such a big pain for me, it's more then just a aesthetic or body type thing, I simply cannot live without my hair.

 

[Die_before_me]

Did you guys think E monotherapy with largely amount is same as AA+E? And how much E needed?

 

[Solxama]

Did you guys think E monotherapy with largely amount is same as AA+E? And how much E needed?

I think it should, E does have antiandrogenic properties on it's own, but large doses are required. For monotherapy injections are the best as they give high levels for quite some time, I can't really do them due to living with my family, so I'm going down the E+AA route. But maybe in the future I will switch to them when I live alone, AAs are not healthy in the long run and with my aggressive balding and other issues I might need to stay on HRT for life.

 

[Almas_NW0]

I think it should, E does have antiandrogenic properties on it's own, but large doses are required. For monotherapy injections are the best as they give high levels for quite some time, I can't really do them due to living with my family, so I'm going down the E+AA route. But maybe in the future I will switch to them when I live alone, AAs are not healthy in the long run and with my aggressive balding and other issues I might need to stay on HRT for life.

First, I don't think gel monotherapy is a good idea. Secondly, at the moment I live with my parents, and this does not prevent me from giving injections. My solution bottle and syringes are kept in a box that they won't open. I give the injection when they go to bed. No problem. Soon I will generally live with three people in a university dormitory, and I will be injecting in the toilet.

If you are afraid that they will discover it, then I have a life hack: things that need to be hidden can be hidden in the computer system unit. Nobody will open it.

 

[Die_before_me]

First, I don't think gel monotherapy is a good idea. Secondly, at the moment I live with my parents, and this does not prevent me from giving injections. My solution bottle and syringes are kept in a box that they won't open. I give the injection when they go to bed. No problem. Soon I will generally live with three people in a university dormitory, and I will be injecting in the toilet.

If you are afraid that they will discover it, then I have a life hack: things that need to be hidden can be hidden in the computer system unit. Nobody will open it.

How about using pill? Its easy to hidden from anybody

 

[Solxama]

First, I don't think gel monotherapy is a good idea. Secondly, at the moment I live with my parents, and this does not prevent me from giving injections. My solution bottle and syringes are kept in a box that they won't open. I give the injection when they go to bed. No problem. Soon I will generally live with three people in a university dormitory, and I will be injecting in the toilet.

If you are afraid that they will discover it, then I have a life hack: things that need to be hidden can be hidden in the computer system unit. Nobody will open it.

Thank you for your suggestion, will think about it if I decide to go off Gel and AAs in the future and go injections. But on the other hand I might get my own house in a few months, so then I won't have to hide anything. For now I'll do Bica+Gel for the first 6-12 months, will see how things go later.

Also, I will tell them sooner or later that I'm on HRT, my family in the UK is pretty tolerant so that's not that big of a problem. The biggest issue is they are very anti-drug, and they might mistake injectable E for drugs. And I don't feel like explaining myself or having any arguments lol.

 

[Solxama]

How about using pill? Its easy to hidden from anybody

I think gel is better for hair, it can be rubbed into the scalp and temples.

 

[Almas_NW0]

How about using pill? Its easy to hidden from anybody

Even if my neighbors see me pouring the solution into a syringe, I don't care. How do they know what exactly I am typing? It's none of their business. I can say that I am ill with something. The pills can improve breast growth, they have to be used at least 2 times a day, they are less effective and more expensive. Injections are the best option

I think gel is better for hair, it can be rubbed into the scalp and temples.

The gel has no local effects. Experimentality was the one who spoke about this better.

 

[Solxama]

Even if my neighbors see me pouring the solution into a syringe, I don't care. How do they know what exactly I am typing? It's none of their business. I can say that I am ill with something. The pills can improve breast growth, they have to be used at least 2 times a day, they are less effective and more expensive. Injections are the best option


The gel has no local effects. Experimentality was the one who spoke about this better.

Well I already got gel, so for now I'm going with that. I also don't want much breast growth so definitely avioding pills lol.

About the local effects, some people like Bridge used it with success on their head, so I'm not so sure with the not having local effects thing. And besides Estrogen is Estrogen so it should do the job regardless where I put it.

To wrap things up, I will be probably going with injections in the future, as I will most likely be staying on HRT for life. But for now to start off I'm going the Bridge route, that is Gel+AAs.

 

[Solxama]

I got my Estrogel today! It came very fast, I am pleasantly surprised at the speed of the delivery

I'm still waiting for my Bica, but that does not mean I will delay starting Estrogen. As I'm typing this, an hour has passed since I applied my first dose
of Estrogel, 2mg on my temples, and another 2mg on my thigh. In the evening I will apply another 2mg, thereby reaching my daily planned dose of 6mg.

Later I will take some pictures of my hair, and I aim to share them here and also start my own thread by the evening.

OMG, I feel so happy and warm inside, like I've been waiting for this moment my whole life! I will never forget this day, the day in which I took a very big step to save my hair, and to fully embrace the real me.

Edit : Well here are some pics of my hair on day 1 of HRT.

Edit 2: I am so eager to start documenting my journey, I have started my thread now :

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/solxamas-great-experiment-hrt-vs-aggressive-androgenic-alopecia.134182/

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I got my Estrogel today! It came very fast, I am pleasantly surprised at the speed of the delivery

I'm still waiting for my Bica, but that does not mean I will delay starting Estrogen. As I'm typing this, an hour has passed since I applied my first dose
of Estrogel, 2mg on my temples, and another 2mg on my thigh. In the evening I will apply another 2mg, thereby reaching my daily planned dose of 6mg.

Later I will take some pictures of my hair, and I aim to share them here and also start my own thread by the evening.

OMG, I feel so happy and warm inside, like I've been waiting for this moment my whole life! I will never forget this day, the day in which I took a very big step to save my hair, and to fully embrace the real me.

Edit : Well here are some pics of my hair on day 1 of HRT.

Edit 2: I am so eager to start documenting my journey, I have started my thread now :

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/solxamas-great-experiment-hrt-vs-aggressive-androgenic-alopecia.134182/

Good luck!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I got my Estrogel today! It came very fast, I am pleasantly surprised at the speed of the delivery

I'm still waiting for my Bica, but that does not mean I will delay starting Estrogen. As I'm typing this, an hour has passed since I applied my first dose
of Estrogel, 2mg on my temples, and another 2mg on my thigh. In the evening I will apply another 2mg, thereby reaching my daily planned dose of 6mg.

Later I will take some pictures of my hair, and I aim to share them here and also start my own thread by the evening.

OMG, I feel so happy and warm inside, like I've been waiting for this moment my whole life! I will never forget this day, the day in which I took a very big step to save my hair, and to fully embrace the real me.

Edit : Well here are some pics of my hair on day 1 of HRT.

Edit 2: I am so eager to start documenting my journey, I have started my thread now :

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/solxamas-great-experiment-hrt-vs-aggressive-androgenic-alopecia.134182/

My hero. That makes two balding XY's and Bridge willing to put their pics where they money lies or something like that. KCMB knew enough never to lose anything but texture formerly and she's pretty gorgeous but eh, gorgeous MtF's are usually into guys and that's the only thing holding me back. Chicks don't dig sissies only dudes do and I remember a line from a prison movie: All of that long pretty blond hair, dude, expect to be very ahem popular in the joint. I need to hurry and get SRS lest they put me in the wrong institution and if I am in with the XY's, it's better for me to shave all of my hair and do the 13 years and then just decide to have hair again after.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

My hero. That makes two balding XY's and Bridge willing to put their pics where they money lies or something like that. KCMB knew enough never to lose anything but texture formerly and she's pretty gorgeous but eh, gorgeous MtF's are usually into guys and that's the only thing holding me back. Chicks don't dig sissies only dudes do and I remember a line from a prison movie: All of that long pretty blond hair, dude, expect to be very ahem popular in the joint. I need to hurry and get SRS lest they put me in the wrong institution and if I am in with the XY's, it's better for me to shave all of my hair and do the 13 years and then just decide to have hair again after.

Thx. Nearly 3 years on hrt. And yeah I'm def way more into guys

 

[Solxama]

Good luck!

Thank you! And HRT really did wonders for your hair, it looks great

And to @JaneyElizabeth , thank you for your words of encouragement, I hope you are right and no shedding will happen for me. To be honest when I signed up here a month ago, I already knew what has to be done to save my hair, but I was still scared of some potential effects of HRT, mainly breast growth. But thanks to your kindness and words, and of all the others who interacted with me, I overcame these fears and have taken the plunge into what I hope will be a better life, with a head full of hair and a body that feels more in tune with my soul.

 

[Experimentality]

Even if my neighbors see me pouring the solution into a syringe, I don't care. How do they know what exactly I am typing? It's none of their business. I can say that I am ill with something. The pills can improve breast growth, they have to be used at least 2 times a day, they are less effective and more expensive. Injections are the best option


The gel has no local effects. Experimentality was the one who spoke about this better.

The gel is meant to go systemic, but that does not mean it does not work locally. Because of the extremely high (E2 is extremely potent since it circulates in picomolar concentrations) concentrations of the gel, it is not suitable to be used by "guys who wish to stay guys". In a previous post of mine I demonstrated that using E2 topically in concentrations of around 1mcg/mL (micrograms per mL) saturates the receptors. Any more than that cannot bind to receptors in the scalp, and so it will either be bound by albumin, SHBG or diffuse into the bloodstream. For people on HRT that is of course desirable to achieve the necessary serum concentrations. However, for males experimenting with topical E2 trying to eliminate sides this is not a good thing. That is also why certain vehicles are "better": they promote localization by limiting diffusion into the bloodstream, which reduces the needed concentration of E2. And that is a good thing, because with increasing concentrations the probability of systemic effects will increase as well (as more will enter the bloodstream). In fact, any medication is able to work locally, provided it is not a prodrug, (preferably) has not an extremely high molecular weight and the skin/scalp contains the particular receptors associated with the medication. Reducing systemic effects is then all about minimizing the concentration (and application area, but that does not really apply for male pattern baldness) and selecting a vehicle that limits diffusion while still providing passage through the stratum corneum. I hope this clarifies things a bit.

 

[MrOscar]

The gel is meant to go systemic, but that does not mean it does not work locally. Because of the extremely high (E2 is extremely potent since it circulates in picomolar concentrations) concentrations of the gel, it is not suitable to be used by "guys who wish to stay guys". In a previous post of mine I demonstrated that using E2 topically in concentrations of around 1mcg/mL (micrograms per mL) saturates the receptors. Any more than that cannot bind to receptors in the scalp, and so it will either be bound by albumin, SHBG or diffuse into the bloodstream. For people on HRT that is of course desirable to achieve the necessary serum concentrations. However, for males experimenting with topical E2 trying to eliminate sides this is not a good thing. That is also why certain vehicles are "better": they promote localization by limiting diffusion into the bloodstream, which reduces the needed concentration of E2. And that is a good thing, because with increasing concentrations the probability of systemic effects will increase as well (as more will enter the bloodstream). In fact, any medication is able to work locally, provided it is not a prodrug, (preferably) has not an extremely high molecular weight and the skin/scalp contains the particular receptors associated with the medication. Reducing systemic effects is then all about minimizing the concentration (and application area, but that does not really apply for male pattern baldness) and selecting a vehicle that limits diffusion while still providing passage through the stratum corneum. I hope this clarifies things a bit.

High local concentration of beta-estradiol might actually hurt, as in vitro estradiol optimal working range is in the nanomolar range (often tested in vitro at 10 nanoM and not more than 100 nanoM).
A 0.05%, 2 ml, full head topical is going to deliver estradiol at dermis in the order of 10 microM. Unfortunately there are no references for some "hair-specific" test of estradiol at microM. Found a dose-respinse test on eye lens epithelial cells, showing cell proliferation stimulation at nanoM, vs loss o viability and induction of apoptosis at 10 microM.

Effects of 17β-estradiol on proliferation, cell viability and intracellular redox status in native human lens epithelial cells

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 17β-estradiol on proliferation, cell death and redox status in cultured human lens epithelial cells (HLECs).HLECs were exposed to 17β-estradiol after which cell viability was measured ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attached a graph showing the concentration response of hair growth model of estradiol.
Optimal concentration was 10 nanoM...and not 100 nanoM

 

[Swarleyd]

Thx. Nearly 3 years on hrt. And yeah I'm def way more into guys
View attachment 168084

Just an odd question, can you still erect and have “normal” sex functions ?

 

[Experimentality]

High local concentration of beta-estradiol might actually hurt, as in vitro estradiol optimal working range is in the nanomolar range (often tested in vitro at 10 nanoM and not more than 100 nanoM).
A 0.05%, 2 ml, full head topical is going to deliver estradiol at dermis in the order of 10 microM. Unfortunately there are no references for some "hair-specific" test of estradiol at microM. Found a dose-respinse test on eye lens epithelial cells, showing cell proliferation stimulation at nanoM, vs loss o viability and induction of apoptosis at 10 microM.

Effects of 17β-estradiol on proliferation, cell viability and intracellular redox status in native human lens epithelial cells

The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of 17β-estradiol on proliferation, cell death and redox status in cultured human lens epithelial cells (HLECs).HLECs were exposed to 17β-estradiol after which cell viability was measured ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attached a graph showing the concentration response of hair growth model of estradiol.
Optimal concentration was 10 nanoM...and not 100 nanoM

Estrogen does not cause hair loss in humans and is hair protective. The study you linked is on epithelal lens cells, which have entirely different morphology than hair follicles. For example, estrogen causes proliferation in mammary cells but causes apoptosis in prostate cells. I have yet to read the first study that demonstrates a catagenic effect of E2 in human hair follicles. There have been reports of the anagen promoting effect of E2 being dependent on the scalp region in absence of androgens. In presence of androgens, E2 induces AR downregulation and thus makes androgens less "effective" (this is actually becoming a big problem for males with all traces of birth control pills floating around in tap water).