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Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
- Start date
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Good progress
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I saw yours too these days ago, more volume, more color , your hair is so beautiful, congratulations.
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Well said friend!! I am thinking suicide everyday how do you know?
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How could I not know? I've been there, and this hole still scares me, I understand your feeling and I'm trying to help you get out of this torture with the information I can, I don't expect anything in return, just help as you (fórum)helped me.
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You reminded me of my own baldness when it just started at the age of 16, but I did not understand what was happening and was sure that it was not baldness. In the first 2 years, my hair just got thinner, which was difficult to notice in the photos, but it was obvious to me and the hairdressers, who could no longer give me a voluminous styling. Hair has become dry, thin.
And the bad news is that the most difficult thing is to restore their hydration, thickness, shine, which would allow them to have volume and look good, not letting in light to the scalp.
Another piece of news was announced by you: within 40 days after HRT, the hair again loses its quality and thickness. So the only way to have perfect hair is to use HRT all the time, which can be problematic in terms of long-term side effects. I don’t know yet how long it will take to get the perfect moisturized hair on E if you start therapy on Norwood 0 like in these photos. If this is a long time (and I'm sure it is), then I will have difficulties in obtaining perfect hair without the constant use of E
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Your hair is still great, you were smart and started early.
Regarding quality and hydration, from what I remember this also happened to that user noahKennedy, he said he lost quality and started to go back a little after he stopped HRT, he keeps the result today with dutasteride, but surely he should already have passed through some sheds and its volume and quality must be inferior to the peak of TRH.
Just like me, if I stopped everything now and stayed with finasteride I doubt very much that I would be nw3-4-5, but I would lose my hairline, volume and quality that's for sure, and with time I would return to milestone 0.
I would like to hear a report from him to see how much hair he has today compared to the time of HRT.
And I said that, like it might seem bizarre, it might be an association, I know the hair physiology, the phases the cycles from birth to shedding, but E2 certainly improves hair quality it makes sense it's much more common if you see women with hair Long, few men even without baldness can have this quality and quantity of anagen phase that women have, even men who were born with perfect hair if he has a sister is likely to have hair that is inferior to hers.
Based on the principle that the hair is part of the integumentary system and prostagens and estrogens increase the synthesis of various collagen substances, the intercellular matrix makes sense for the hair to accompany the improvement of the skin it is part of the same system.
For me it's already real, tested by me and other users, evidence-based medicine and I have some here, we don't have study groups on this within medicine, I've said it here several times, all of this here is a prototype we don't have research disclosed on such matters in our human medical literature but is real estrogens protagens is real f*****g good for hair.( REMEMBER SIDE EFFECTS, it's a sword with two sharp sides)
I think it's perfectly possible to have an adequate testosterone level and still have hair, but here we're talking about quality and volume.
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In Noah's case, I was disappointed that he kept us in the dark about hair quality, which was the most interesting thing for me. He made a short haircut and dyed his hair, so it was not clear from the photo. And he reported deterioration when the growth line began to recede rather than deteriorate in thickness and quality. Unfortunately, he did not pay attention to this issue, so I am the first to check it after HRT.
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When you advise against the use of minoxidil, are you referring to its oral or topical form? If so why? In any case you are one of the few people I know of who would make such a suggestion. Most hair loss gurus on YouTube reccommend the use of topical (and sometime oral) minoxidil without reservation.
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Well, what I meant is that your topical dosage is actually a transdermal dosage, and thus ends up in the bloodstream either way. Hence, it wouldn't matter if you were to use the same (or a dose-equivalent adjusted) dosage sublingually, because that will also go straight to the bloodstream. The effects are indistinguisable. When purely targeting local estrogen receptors in the scalp, single micrograms will suffice to saturate every single receptor (regardless whether the receptor density is up/downregulated by some mechanism). E2 is one hell of a strong hormone. Probably the strongest (although it would compete for that "title" with the thyroid hormones).
By the way I never asked for your pictures and never would, I totally understand that people don't want their faces on here (or any website for that matter).
Both. multiple reasons:
- It doesn't address the root cause of balding, which stems purely from the androgen receptor. Although there are some recent studies suggesting Minoxidil can bind and antagonize the AR lightly, it's not the main effect and it's not strong enough. Hence, it's a bandaid solution.
- Minoxidil mimics the effects of nitric oxide (NO), link (i.e. it binds the same receptors, particularly Sgc). NO is a molecule that can best be described as pro-aging. More info on NO and why to avoid it at all costs here. All deleterious effects on health of NO also apply to Minoxidil. Apart from this, Minoxidil has an additional array of side effects on its own:
-Minoxidil has fibriotic effects on heart tissue, as per this study. (there are more available).
-Minoxidil has deleterious effects on collagen, here and here (interestingly, minoxidil is even suggested as treatment for skin conditions associated with increased collagen. Hence, will make your skin look worse (at best).
-Minoxidil induces deleterious changes to heart ECG, by flattening T wave and decreasing QRS voltage currents (see here).
Yes, topical minoxidil can avoid some of the effects mentioned above. However, anecdotal evidence supports the findings stated here, in which users of topical minoxidil report skin sagging, palpitations, water retention and a general diminished sense of well-being. A significant portion of minoxidil goes systemic. Yes, it can be very effective for hairloss, but it's a dirty drug with many off-target effects. I have no desire to age pre-maturely and think the balding cascade can effectively be stopped with topical AA's and possibly a microdose of topical E2. Hence, enough reasons for me to refrain from recommending Minoxidil.
I am aware that such a list can possibly be made for AA's or 5ARI's as well. And it is true that none of the compounds we use are good for us. But, I believe that AA's and 5ARI's effectively counteract the balding cascade by interfering with the root cause of Androgenetic Alopecia, which is androgens. Thus, there is a strong case to be made in favor of using those, as opposed to Minoxidil. I would still use the least amount of different compounds and the lowest concentration/frequency to achieve beneficial effects.
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I've already been on dutasteride for probably 3 months now which is crazy for me to think about.
I am still finalizing my regimen, people say dutasteride takes 5 weeks to build up or is that the half life?
Regardless, I should have been on it long enough to start taking it every other day apposed to everyday.
I've seen people who have had better luck with 0.5mg duta once a week than finasteride at 1mg everyday.
So by taking it every other day I should have a middle ground between the two, 0.5mg is probably overkill considering I don't have cancer since that is the intended use for the drug in the first place. And for hair loss, its off-label, like how oral minoxidil is as well.
Still, Dutasteride every other day should be a cost effective solution compared to using other services to get hold of over priced finasteride.
I am planning on taking it every other day, at 0.5mg on the same days I take cyproterone as that too has a relatively long half life.
And I plan on injecting 4mg of estradiol every five since the lady who supplied me with estradiol (lenas bathwater estrogen) essentially made me overdose on it at like 8mg as an injection. I remember experimenting with injections a year ago and had my bloods done and while my testosterone was suppressed in the castrate ranges, at the end of the five days when I was tested; I got back results that gave me an inordinate amount of e2.
I think it was around 1200pg/ml which if I recall is pregnancy levels of estrogen. I think that was august of last year, I literally stopped taking injections because it was effecting my mental health. I.e, I was overtly aggressive like a stubborn old b**ch ad would get frustrated over seemingly nothing and my prolactin shot up which wasn't pleasant for reasons. Makes me wonder how much of that was in my piss.
I am scared of starting injections again because of this, but its either that or I lose my hair.
I still have the old vials from a year ago, but I wouldn't think they would be good to use.
I'm going to be buying fresh vials and employ hygeine to make sure they stay clean.
The final cost of everything works out to be about £5/week or under £280/year.
To be honest from all the sh*t I have wasted money before on, this is more affordable.
Draft of final regimen.
25mg Cyproterone Acetate/once every two days
0.5mg Dutasteride/once every two days
4mg Estradiol Valerate (injections)/once every five days.
I have a feeling I am going to have better luck this time around.
Here is to a healthy head of hair.
Cheers.
I am still finalizing my regimen, people say dutasteride takes 5 weeks to build up or is that the half life?
Regardless, I should have been on it long enough to start taking it every other day apposed to everyday.
I've seen people who have had better luck with 0.5mg duta once a week than finasteride at 1mg everyday.
So by taking it every other day I should have a middle ground between the two, 0.5mg is probably overkill considering I don't have cancer since that is the intended use for the drug in the first place. And for hair loss, its off-label, like how oral minoxidil is as well.
Still, Dutasteride every other day should be a cost effective solution compared to using other services to get hold of over priced finasteride.
I am planning on taking it every other day, at 0.5mg on the same days I take cyproterone as that too has a relatively long half life.
And I plan on injecting 4mg of estradiol every five since the lady who supplied me with estradiol (lenas bathwater estrogen) essentially made me overdose on it at like 8mg as an injection. I remember experimenting with injections a year ago and had my bloods done and while my testosterone was suppressed in the castrate ranges, at the end of the five days when I was tested; I got back results that gave me an inordinate amount of e2.
I think it was around 1200pg/ml which if I recall is pregnancy levels of estrogen. I think that was august of last year, I literally stopped taking injections because it was effecting my mental health. I.e, I was overtly aggressive like a stubborn old b**ch ad would get frustrated over seemingly nothing and my prolactin shot up which wasn't pleasant for reasons. Makes me wonder how much of that was in my piss.
I am scared of starting injections again because of this, but its either that or I lose my hair.
I still have the old vials from a year ago, but I wouldn't think they would be good to use.
I'm going to be buying fresh vials and employ hygeine to make sure they stay clean.
The final cost of everything works out to be about £5/week or under £280/year.
To be honest from all the sh*t I have wasted money before on, this is more affordable.
Draft of final regimen.
25mg Cyproterone Acetate/once every two days
0.5mg Dutasteride/once every two days
4mg Estradiol Valerate (injections)/once every five days.
I have a feeling I am going to have better luck this time around.
Here is to a healthy head of hair.
Cheers.
How is ur hair now?
That regimen sounds really good, I wish you great success.
You'll save your hair, I believe in you
If you’re on CPA and E, why worry so much about limiting dutasteride? Lol. Might as well bump up your E to 6mg and get rid of the CPA. You can take as much dutasteride as you want if you’re on HRT.
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Hello, I posted about shaving my head about a month ago and now that a month has passed, I believe I can accurately survey the damage. So far, things look "good", with the exception of the early hairline loss, I've grown back the majority of my hair. Even with the hairline miniaturization my head is completely covered in hair. I see a significant amount of miniaturization on the top of my head and a bit in the crown. It's not noticeable to anyone else but me or someone who'd know what to look for. Even my hairline losses aren't enough for people to notice.
Of course, over time, all of this will become much more noticeable as my hair grows. Before I shaved my head, I could notice that the hair in those areas wasn't really growing in sync with my donor area and I could see my scalp more easily when I parted it or when it was wet. So, my findings aren't too surprising. Though I do not like the way the top of my head looks or my hairline, I take comfort in the fact that the hair in those areas is just thinning. I have no real bald spots, and the hairline recession can either be easily concealed by my hair's natural curl pattern and/or recovered with an effective HRT regimen.
For now, I'll continue with 1 mg finasteride and introduce microneedling and Black Castor Oil as a scalp treatment. Black people use Black Castor Oil as a scalp treatment all the time. Also, oiling and moisturization are common in Black hair care, as afro-textured hair needs constant moisture for it's health. At one point, I moisturized and oiled my hair three times a day.
I'm not completely sure if the finasteride is to thank for what I've maintained so far, so I'll keep taking it for preservation. When I start on HRT I'll either up it to 2.5 mg or switch to Duta. Since I still have most of my hair, I will start with 4 mg E2 sublingual for the first 3-6 months before going upwards to 6 mg.
For now, I'm planning a health and fitness regimen. I want be in good enough physical shape and have a healthy enough diet to counteract the sapping of muscle mass and any potential weight gain. Essentially, I'd be preparing my body for HRT.
While I don't like the state my hair is in, I am grateful that it isn't as bad as it could be. From what I can tell, everything is completely recoverable, including much of my hairline. It looks like I caught onto things quite early.
Of course, over time, all of this will become much more noticeable as my hair grows. Before I shaved my head, I could notice that the hair in those areas wasn't really growing in sync with my donor area and I could see my scalp more easily when I parted it or when it was wet. So, my findings aren't too surprising. Though I do not like the way the top of my head looks or my hairline, I take comfort in the fact that the hair in those areas is just thinning. I have no real bald spots, and the hairline recession can either be easily concealed by my hair's natural curl pattern and/or recovered with an effective HRT regimen.
For now, I'll continue with 1 mg finasteride and introduce microneedling and Black Castor Oil as a scalp treatment. Black people use Black Castor Oil as a scalp treatment all the time. Also, oiling and moisturization are common in Black hair care, as afro-textured hair needs constant moisture for it's health. At one point, I moisturized and oiled my hair three times a day.
I'm not completely sure if the finasteride is to thank for what I've maintained so far, so I'll keep taking it for preservation. When I start on HRT I'll either up it to 2.5 mg or switch to Duta. Since I still have most of my hair, I will start with 4 mg E2 sublingual for the first 3-6 months before going upwards to 6 mg.
For now, I'm planning a health and fitness regimen. I want be in good enough physical shape and have a healthy enough diet to counteract the sapping of muscle mass and any potential weight gain. Essentially, I'd be preparing my body for HRT.
While I don't like the state my hair is in, I am grateful that it isn't as bad as it could be. From what I can tell, everything is completely recoverable, including much of my hairline. It looks like I caught onto things quite early.
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?
What are the real causes of baldness?
How can you say that if you don't know the pathophysiology of baldness and don't know the mechanism of action of minoxidil?
What is the mechanism of minoxidil that helps hair? Vasodilation? Increase in PGE2? Opening of potassium channels? Anti androgen? Nobody knows until today!
So tell me what is the pathophysiology of hair loss? DHT? so why DHT stimulates the follicles in the rest of the body, but in scalp in the frontal region of the head f*** everything. So how do you say you don't act on the root of the problem? What is the root of the problem?
Why do patients who undergo full transition treatment for females still fail to regrow? This thing have A lot more details than we think.
How can you make such a statement without fully understanding the pathophysiology involved?
I've seen complete recovery with minoxidil only, and with CPA only, and I've seen no results with minoxidil and with CPA too, I've seen people taking pounds of CPA and e2 and not having regrowth and then what is the mechanism of action?
?
You graduated in what? do you really know the mechanism of action of NO?
You make it sound like nitric oxide is bad!
It keeps getting worse.
Minoxidil is toxic to dogs and other life forms as are thousands of other medications.
We are humans man, this DRUG IS USED FOR 50 YEARS DUDE!!!!!!!! 50 YEARS! I AM A DOCTOR AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY REPORT OF IT IN THE HISTORY OF MEDICINE!
Look how you're basing your claim!
We have thousands of types of collagen fibers
Type 1 collagen fiber
type 2 collagen fiber
collagen fiber type 3 and so on too many
Minoxidil inhibits some collagens not all, but without deleterious effects!!!!!!!!!!
I always say that here, everything is poison, everyone chooses their own, I have a medical degree and I came to this conclusion, I better use a vasodilator.
If you think that having AR blockade is safer than taking minoxidil then feel free, it's your choice but I could make a giant post here about REAL side effects of AR blockers from anemia to seizures, I won't keep saying that here I don't want to Be boring.
But to say that blocking RA is safer than using minoxidil a well-established drug used for decades to treat not only hypertension with thousands and thousands of medical reports on an adequate dose of course,
and say I prefer to take AR blocker because of the side effects my eyes even bleed.
And I tell you more, it may seem that this is the secret but it is not.
It seems to work right? block AR but no, I've tried souls already tried, and several other users, if you don't put a good dose of E2 forget it.
Everyone does what they want, takes what they want, and we're just expressing opinions here.
I'm a intern Doctor, in my opinion there's no comparison between a vasodilator and an AR block, it's absurd.
You say minoxidil is a dirty drug its a joke right?, so AR blockers is clean? hahahahahahaha it only has effects on the scalp. (joke)
Which hair care drug doesn't have this dirty effect tell me.
So You who are reading do what you want, but as I always say choose your medication and prepare for the side effects.
The only thing I can confirm in your post is that in HIGH DOSES! HIGH DOSES! I also presented the Elotrocardiogram dysfunction, but in a massive dosage! 40 mg, 30mg AND YOU CAN TAKE A ATENOLOL OR OTHER BETA BLOCKER! That's not completely "bad", it's an expected effect.
Spare me, minoxidil has been used for decades for hair loss, decades, and there's still this silly discussion.
I don't want to sound boring, but there are statements that come out here that only Jesus to have mercy
Do you know what is not used for hair loss? AR blockers. its totally off label, DIFFERENT FOR finasteride and dutasteride THAT ARE 5ar enzyme blockers.
AR BLOCKERS THEY ARE DESIGNED TO TREAT CANCER, THEY ARE NOT CREATED TO BE GENTLE WITH THEIR BODY PHYSIOLOGY!.
Get your head together.
Now if you say that an AR blocker can cause a much greater regrowth effect than minoxidil! Oh I agree maybe in some users. But the side effects will be quadrupled that's obvious!
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Okay, lots to unpack here.
My degree is irrelevant, as is yours. I linked many papers (through Georgi Dinkov/haidut) that demonstrate the deleterious effects of NO. Could you link some research that states the beneficial effects of Nitric Oxide?
Could you explain why inhibition of certain collagen subtypes of Minoxidil is not deleterious?
I prefer compounds that are highly selective in their binding and have little to none off-target effects. This makes the drug more predictable, and easier to intervene when things go south. Minoxidil is not selective and it has many off-target effects, which make it a 'dirty' drug. To fight pure Androgenetic Alopecia, AR antagonists are superior for that very reason. Note that this statement is quite subtle: it doesn't mean AR antagonists will yield higher hair counts that Minoxidil. In fact, I believe the contrary is true. However, I believe that other causes of alopecia should be addressed seperately to Androgenetic Alopecia and not by using a shotgun approach á la Minoxidil. That just masks the underlying problems, which could again be due to thyroid, prolactin, histamine, endotoxin etc. In a healthy individual, most of those parameters should be fine, eliminating the need for Minoxidil.
Correct, we don't know the full pathophysiology of baldness. However, we do know that there are several kinds of alopecia, i.e. non-scarring (like in thyroid disease) or scarring (like in actual Androgenetic Alopecia or traction alopecia). We know that the cause of pure Androgenetic Alopecia is androgens. You could argue with that, but that is really built within the definition of Androgenetic Alopecia. Of course, many people (likely) don't have 'just' Androgenetic Alopecia but rather a combination of several mechanisms that contribute to hair follicle miniaturization or pure premature catagen (in the case of thyroid disease). Recently histamines are suspected to play an important role as well, and many companies are focusing their research on the prolactin angle. Androgenetic Alopecia is defined to be triggered by androgens, and so actual antiandrogens, estrogens or 5ARI's are going to be key here. The effects of Minoxidil on Androgenetic Alopecia are by definition weak, since it's a very weak AR antagonist. Of course, the effects of Minoxidil on many other forms of alopecia I just mentioned may be more substantial. I never said Minoxidil was a weak stimulator of hair growth, I only stated it doesn't address the root case of Androgenetic Alopecia, which is true.
My degree is irrelevant, as is yours. I linked many papers (through Georgi Dinkov/haidut) that demonstrate the deleterious effects of NO. Could you link some research that states the beneficial effects of Nitric Oxide?
Fair enough. I still wouldn't take the risk though, but that's just me. There are other cases known where Minoxidil induced cardiac tamponade, although that's at higher doses then usually administered to individuals with Androgenetic Alopecia.
Could you explain why inhibition of certain collagen subtypes of Minoxidil is not deleterious?
I didn't say anything about regrowth potential. I also didn't compare Minoxidil to AR antagonists in terms of safety or regrowth potential. I just stated that AR antagonists address the root cause of pure Androgenetic Alopecia, whereas Minoxidil does not. I discussed the safety of Minoxidil as a standalone, not in comparison to anything else.
I prefer compounds that are highly selective in their binding and have little to none off-target effects. This makes the drug more predictable, and easier to intervene when things go south. Minoxidil is not selective and it has many off-target effects, which make it a 'dirty' drug. To fight pure Androgenetic Alopecia, AR antagonists are superior for that very reason. Note that this statement is quite subtle: it doesn't mean AR antagonists will yield higher hair counts that Minoxidil. In fact, I believe the contrary is true. However, I believe that other causes of alopecia should be addressed seperately to Androgenetic Alopecia and not by using a shotgun approach á la Minoxidil. That just masks the underlying problems, which could again be due to thyroid, prolactin, histamine, endotoxin etc. In a healthy individual, most of those parameters should be fine, eliminating the need for Minoxidil.
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Do you have a guide of what to use if i wanne start HRT. And if i need to prepare myself before starting. Thankyou