Follica - Good News!

[harold]

Dont know how common knowledge this is but over on hairsite some guy gleaned this about the "scalp stimulation" that seemed to help Intercytex's hair multiplication results go from ordinary to less ordinary.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 045906.ece

Quote from that article:

The latest results of the Phase II trial, presented at a conference of leading hair replacement surgeons in Rome, suggest that the technique can increase hair count in at least two thirds of patients after six months, and four out of five if the scalp is stimulated beforehand through gentle abrasions that encourage hair growth.

Seems like its not just people here trying a bit of DIY Follica
hh

 

[harold]

Here is just a little more detail about the difference made by scalp stimulation

Clinical development
We have now completed the treatment phase of our Phase II
study being conducted by Dr Bessam Farjo in Manchester
to optimise the delivery of the DP cells.
In this study, hair counts are obtained by shaving and
photographing a small section of scalp, injecting it and then
applying a specialised image analysis system to provide a total hair
count. All 19 subjects in the trial have now been treated using
a range of injection and scalp pre?stimulation techniques; the first
six subjects were injected without stimulation of the scalp. In the
remaining thirteen the resident hair producing (epithelial) cells
were stimulated at the time of delivery of the DP cells.
Eleven subjects have now passed the 24?week time point
since treatment and specialised image analysis at this time
point showed:
// of the group of six patients without stimulation of the scalp,
three had an increased hair count and two had a reduced hair
count; one has been lost to follow?up.
// of the five subjects with pre?treatment scalp stimulation,
all had increased hair count at twelve weeks and the three
who were evaluated at 24-weeks all had an increased hair
count at that time point.
These data are consistent with the earlier data reported last
September and the hypothesis that new hair production is improved
by pre?stimulation of the scalp, leading to an interaction between
the injected cells and the resident hair producing cells.

Well....does this mean that Intercytex have just shown that HM as is is relatively ineffective and that follica's procedure works? Is it possible that most of those results were in fact due to the scalp stimulation? Its not a large group of people at any rate that they are following...
hh

 

[masculineyourheart]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

I've pretty well given up on Intercytex's HM procedure coming through before 2309 anyway.

 

[harold]

2309? Since I have a good feeling that time travel will be commercialised within the next 5 years we should be fine.
hh

 

[first]

Now give us a natural wnt inhibitor so the hair doesn't turn out white.

 

[harold]

Now give us a natural wnt inhibitor so the hair doesn't turn out white.

Well if some studies are to be believed we churn out plently of natural wnt inhibitors such as DKK1. I think we have to more worry about stimulating wnt and getting the hair there in the first place.
hh

 

[jakeb]

I'll take white hair. You can dye white hair a lot easier than you can dye no hair.

 

[first]

Now give us a natural wnt inhibitor so the hair doesn't turn out white.

Well if some studies are to be believed we churn out plently of natural wnt inhibitors such as DKK1. I think we have to more worry about stimulating wnt and getting the hair there in the first place.
hh

We'll see. I did a very small scale test on myself where I only have small languo hair and will apply a combination of minoxidil, green tea extract, ethanol, caffeine, finasteride and MSM twice per day and see if anything happens, as I cannot needle it in later, I'm applying it from day one. minoxidil and caffeine may cancel each other out to some degree though but those two are not major factors in the testing so it shouldn't matter too much.

It was very difficult to know if I went deep enough however, filing your skin off is not at pleasant as one might think. I went on until the skin felt thinner and turned red (but without any blood). As studies seems to indicate, doing it several times over may be much more beneficial, so if it doesn't work the first time I'll do it at least once more, possibly at a better spot if at least my languo hair have regrown, as then it isn't bad for your hair at any rate (the languo hair were filed off in the procedure). This is quite close to the hairline, so hopefully finasteride has a positive effect instead of negative.

If anyone has any ideas on how to cheaply improve this, you are very welcome to add them. I am also looking forward to seeing the results from jakeb.

 

[chancer]

Kudos First !!

Goodluck mate... where all behind you...

 

[first]

Kudos First !!

Goodluck mate... where all behind you...

Well, there are so many uncertainties, so even if it does work it may not work in this experiment. However, if some hair did pop up, then it most definitely works on most places.

The uncertainties:
- Too small area, a wider area should trigger more neogenesis even per inch
- Not deep enough, difficult to know if it was deep enough but it did leave a bit of a scar (as you can see on the picture) so it may actually have been the correct depth
- Ethanol, will applying alcohol (which is disinfective) from day one have a negative effect?
- Finasteride, as I don't know if I ever had hair on this spot, will it have a negative effect?
- Terminal hair at a no terminal place, since I do not know if this place ever had terminal hair, will it grow there?
- WnT, too much or too little at this age?
- Enough EGCG to inhibit EGF(r)?
- Sleeping on it, it was mentioned that you should not bandage or sleep on the area in question but I do that regardless, it cannot be helped at this point. If I did a larger scale test, I could possible set it up differently.

Much of these could be reduced if I tried it on a known balding area, however I'm not willing to do that until I see the actual effect on hair, otherwise it would be quite annoying if it did permanent damage.

Here is a picture of how it looks like (after one day), as you can see, the area is very small. It is the scar that looks like an A.

Unfortunately the cam is too poor to actually spot any details. But as I only have languo hair around that spot it should be very easy for me to spot if I at least get some vellus hair, as the area is so tiny, even a couple would be a success.

 

[chancer]

great post...

I'll be prepared to try it on a larger scale when i have my holiday leave from work in september.... if there is still a mark when i go back to work i can always blame it as a bump on the head....

 

[joemadrid]

This is my arsenal. I am going to make a minoxidil shampoo or DSM instead of alcohol solution because of I do not want alcohol do something rare in the skin. Do not know if I am going to purchase a topical EGF inhibitor and mix it with DSM

Arava comes only 3 pills of 100mg, but I can divide it.

 

[goata007]

first, wouldn't it be better to try it on your temple, where hair used to be? seems like a better place to test for rejuvenation and neogenesis

 

[first]

first, wouldn't it be better to try it on your temple, where hair used to be? seems like a better place to test for rejuvenation and neogenesis

Yes, it would be better but I do not want to do it until I see that it at least doesn't hurt my hair. If this proves to be successful to neutral, I will move up to do a test on my temples at a larger scale.

 

[joemadrid]

first, wouldn't it be better to try it on your temple, where hair used to be? seems like a better place to test for rejuvenation and neogenesis

Yes, it would be better but I do not want to do it until I see that it at least doesn't hurt my hair. If this proves to be successful to neutral, I will move up to do a test on my temples at a larger scale.

The cool thing of this is ,theoretically, that your current hair cannot be damaged by abrasion. So we can apply it in all of our head.

Also the patent said that pulling out hair and wait 3 days prior to abrasion could increase hair count.

And I believe that our current hair is going to increase size and diameter using this method.

 

[first]

first, wouldn't it be better to try it on your temple, where hair used to be? seems like a better place to test for rejuvenation and neogenesis

Yes, it would be better but I do not want to do it until I see that it at least doesn't hurt my hair. If this proves to be successful to neutral, I will move up to do a test on my temples at a larger scale.

The cool thing of this is ,theoretically, that your current hair cannot be damaged by abrasion. So we can apply it in all of our head.

Also the patent said that pulling out hair and wait 3 days prior to abrasion could increase hair count.

And I believe that our current hair is going to increase size and diameter using this method.

Well, it definitely hurts the hair temporarily. I've tried it on a few places now and after filing all hair on that spot is ripped away. It should grow back though, hopefully in abundance and be more terminal. I've decided to go for it, I tried it on my temples now in a slightly larger area than before, in a place I only had hairs somewhere inbetween the vellus and languo range. So in a month we'll see some results hopefully.

It doesn't really hurt doing it. It just feels a bit odd damaging yourself, kinda like the experience you get when you try to hit yourself. Applying the solution stings a bit, as if applying ethanol to a wound (which is exactly what is happening). Hopefully that is an indicator that I went deep enough.

Having these two different test areas should be a good indicator of how well it works. If it doesn't work after the third month (and third filing session) on the temple test area, it is unlikely to ever work with this setup, I'll need some stronger EGF(r) inhibitor then most likely.

Anyone with a good picture of how the skin should look like after peeling procedure? Mine looks completely red, almost like you'd think it was bloody.

 

[Orin]

Just make sure that the abraded area is equal, or larger than, 0.5 cm in diameter, as that is (as far as I can tell) the understood size where regeneration is activated over reparation.

Seems you all went a few steps ahead of me, which is great. Good to see so many experimenting. A couple of days ago I did a small dermbrasion on my other temple, this time with lithium and caffeine. Won't hold my breath on it, but could be good.

I'm particularly interested in the arava-experiment, as that is one of the few compounds from the patent that is affordable. Keep us posted. I remember someone posted some data that suggested that you need DMSO to get arava anywhere, but I'm absolutely not sure about that one. Just a fragment of a memory I have.

Also; I've said it before, but I'm thinking that maybe needling can substitute in some way the prerequisite need to pluck the hair a few days prior to dermabrasion. I think my results were due to pretty intense needling a couple of days prior to the actual dermabrasion.

Just an idea. If anything it's much more convenient than plucking it off - especially now when we're in "experiment-mode". Better than not doing anything at all prior to dermabrasion.

Oh one other thing - does extract of green tea contain the "active ingredient" that works as a EGFR-inhibitor? There's been talks about using natural substitutes (due to low cost), but on further examination they've turned out to have stability problems (the sought after effect comes from an ingredient that must be fresh, or otherwise hard to handle).
And does green tea have any of the double-edginess that licorice seem to have? Granted, it's only to be applied for a week or so, but still.


first: skin takes some time to fully express the damage you've done. I learned that after doing a few test-runs on other body parts. Very easy to go too deep. In the end it will heal up. It's just a question of how long it will take; you'd have to gouge pretty wildly to get permanent marks. After 3 days you'll probably develop a hard, coarse scab that itself will wither very quickly - like 2-3 days. Underneath that you'll have very reddish-pink new skin that's usually quite soft, kinda like eye-lid skin.

I made a dermabrasion tool that consisted of straight pins lined up on a piece of cardboard and then carefully taped. I put another piece of cardboard on top of that, and taped it all together. You basically have a comb of tightly put-together needles.

With that you can dermabrade by slowly, but methodically combing the area. This works pretty well for dermabrading areas that have hair, as relatively little, if any hair, is damaged. At worst you'd pull a few loose ones but it's better than using sandpaper - or in your case a file -as that pretty much guarantees that you'll file off existing hairs.

Just something to think about if you're going to do several experiments.

 

[first]

Oh one other thing - does extract of green tea contain the "active ingredient" that works as a EGFR-inhibitor? There's been talks about using natural substitutes (due to low cost), but on further examination they've turned out to have stability problems (the sought after effect comes from an ingredient that must be fresh, or otherwise hard to handle).
And does green tea have any of the double-edginess that licorice seem to have? Granted, it's only to be applied for a week or so, but still.

Aye, it has 30% Catechins, which should be (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG), (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC), (-)-epicatechin-3-gallate (ECG) and (-)-epicatechin (EC), with 60% Polyphenol all in all. Some of those are known to inhibit EGF. It is likely better to buy pure EGCG but this is what I have at home. Green tea extract should not have a negative effect on hair, it should be quite the opposite.

Taken from a study:
A (experimental) and B (control). Group A received 50% fraction of polyphenol extract from dehydrated green tea in their drinking water for six months. Group B received regular drinking water. Both groups were fed regular rodent diets (Purina Rodent Chow 5001) and housed individually in polycarbonate cages. The results showed that 33% of the mice in experimental Group A, who received polyphenol extract in their drinking water, had significant hair regrowth during six months of treatment (p = 0.014). No hair growth was observed among mice in the control group, which received regular water.

 

[first]

With that you can dermabrade by slowly, but methodically combing the area. This works pretty well for dermabrading areas that have hair, as relatively little, if any hair, is damaged. At worst you'd pull a few loose ones but it's better than using sandpaper - or in your case a file -as that pretty much guarantees that you'll file off existing hairs.

Just something to think about if you're going to do several experiments.

Aye, any hair on the spot being filed will be completely filed off. Your method could prevent that to some extent, but it also has the drawback of not being perfectly even on the area in question.

I think it is great that a few people are trying this now, or are about to try it, as we all seem to be using very different methods and chemicals. Hopefully at least one of us will nail it down to something that is practical and efficient on a larger scale.

If I do this on a fully blown out scale, I will still just do one side at a time however. As then it is easier to not sleep on the affected side, it also makes it easier to do a comb over to cover the markings. Though a full procedure is very far off, I've already been thinking about excuses to use if I did do it and someone spotted the bruises

 

[jakeb]

As a small test, last night I needled and applied blended potato (remember, I'm trying PCI, a potato enzyme mentioned in the first patent). After about 5 minutes, I noticed that I began to feel slightly dizzy and the muscles in my neck started to feel stiff.

I looked online and found that the skin of raw potatoes can contain a neurotoxin called solanine. Normally this is no big deal if you eat potatoes, but essentially injecting them though your skin may be another story.

I washed my hair and today felt no ill effects! It would have been embarrassing to die from potatoes on my scalp.

Anyhow, a word of caution to anyone else giving it a try. I'm going to try again, peeling the potatoes first this time.