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Letter to the Editor, Perfect Hair Health:
Jane Loeffler
May 8, 2018 at 3:01 am
Rob,
I really admire your intellect and web site. The article on transgender individuals regaining hair matched the non-conclusive, cataloging research that I had done. I feel as though I have insight that could be helpful. Like many on your site, I have tried various and sundry ways to maintain my hair, from vitamins to minoxidil to surgery, then to Proscar but stopping to have a family and then going on Dutasteride after my children were born. Polysorbate actually seemed beneficial which was the infomercial rage in the mid-80s. Most people would say that I have a normal head of hair for a 53 year old. I can part my hair but I have some recession in the front and a bald spot that is visible depending on the light but that sometimes looks decently full. My side-patterns (fringe regions) remain intact and high. Many balding men go deep into the fringe area, so I hope that I am not complaining too much. When you start balding young, you think of yourself that way, even if hair loss stabilizes. I am still trying for more and better hair and research upon oneself is a tradition going way back.
Estrogen is not regulated in any serious way. This completely differs from testosterone for which one can serve serious time for possession without a prescription. Estrogen may grow hair but it does not make you good at sports so the powers that be largely ignore it.
Amazon sells a pretty potent estradiol/estriol blend for $19 that I have used since about 2013 when I became disappointed when it was evident that not even dutasteride was growing any hair back, as opposed to maintaining it. You can do the math but because it is a three quarters estriol/one quarter estradiol lotion, my calculations based upon the ratios and relative strengths of estriol and estradiol indicated that, roughly, one four ounce pump canister if used equally for seven days, would be equivalent to 6 to 8 mg of estradiol orally. Many transgender patients take 2 to 4 mg of estradiol orally each day, so you actually can get a big dose from transdermals.
When I could get my hands on it, I opted for Estrogel, which is pure estradiol, but which can require a prescription but mg for mg, there probably is not a lot of difference in terms of price/mgs of estradiol. Here is the Amazon version. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LYDBCG
/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have bought it on eBay as well. Sometimes Estrogel has been available on eBay. The Indian connection for obtaining prescription drugs has gotten more difficult and Amazon has the Bi-estro to my door in two days. I wish that it were solely estradiol but it is still at my door in two days so it is hard to complain.
So, without wasting too much of your time, does the Bi-estro work to grow hair? My answer is that it is still not clear to me whether it helps regrow hair or not. I firmly believe that it does/will but I am still taking dutasteride and I believe that most people (or scientists) would say that I am losing my hair extremely slowly rather than regaining it. I started balding at 18 in 1983 but minoxidil came out soon after that so I have had help that previous generations have not. My father is 80 and has Ronald Reagan hair and my mother has impossibly good hair for an 80 year old so the genetics is complicated. Both of my siblings, one male and one female have similar struggles with hair loss to mine, not overt baldness but more generalized thinning.
So I have kept pushing the estrogen. I feel as though there has to be a connection. I had terrible dermatitis, which would erupt into sores all over my head and estrogen cleared it up. I started using estrogen on my face which was blotchy, oily and difficult to shave without bleeding and irritation and all of that has cleared up. Estrogen does great things to skin in general.
So I have insight into the side effects of topical estrogen both on the head, face and two other control areas. Honestly, in my opinion, the side effects of estrogen, if someone is not actively trying to transition to the female sex, are pretty mild. I have never had any side effects from Proscar or dutasteride and I firmly believe that neither of those drugs have significant sides for many or most people.
First of all, yes, topical estrogen goes systemic. It seems to improve hair quality, which is often overlooked by the balding population, immediately. Let’s face it. There are millions of people with full heads of hair of frizzy hair that is difficult to style or comb and that does not look good or blow in the breeze well. For people like me, a significant increase in hair quality, even if the numbers don’t increase makes a big difference. I believe that the vast majority of men could benefit from topical estrogen at low risk. You start slow and you don’t push the dosage if gyno is a big deal to you and you monitor your erections and that is about it, at least in my case.
Your penis will not shrink and unless you push the dosage, you may still get erections without trouble and if not, v**** works for people in this situation. The testicle definitely shrink but can rebound if hormones are stopped.
Yes. I have gyno which does not matter that much to me, but even to those who fear it, gyno is far, far better than the scalp and facial conditions that I had due to dermatitis. On many, if not most men, the breast tissue will not be particularly prominent because men have fairly wide chests which flattens the tissue out. This is why most transgender women who want to be passable get breast implants. Otherwise the breast growth can be managed. If I had to choose between the head of hair that I had at 17 but with gyno, then that is an easy choice for me. Sexual side-effects are reversible. Yes, if you hit the estrogen heavy, you won’t want sex for a few days but is that such a tragedy?
The topicals also tie in to the massage idea. It takes quite a few pumps and many minutes of massage to consume several mgs of estrogen lotion. Thus, in a sense, it forces scalp massage. Since I just came across your transgender article, I recommitted to the attempt with estrogen by using more and combining it with increased massage. I do think that topical administration may take larger amounts than does oral administration.
A lot of things are happening now with respect to gender. Many of us are ashamed to admit that our attachment to our past hair might be indicative of binary or non-binary transgender issues. These concepts barely existed prior to Jenner in the public eye. Thus, now one can use estrogen to attempt to get the hairline that one wants. There is no need to become female or to want to become female. In my experience, most, if not all of the effects of estrogen, even after being used together with dutasteride off and on for years, are reversible and fairly quickly reversible. Yes, the testicles rebound and fast. The breasts decrease and with weight loss decrease even more, although there is an unalterable change in some of the core breast tissue. That change is a positive to me regardless of whether I identify as male or female. When I went off estrogen, I began fighting dermatitis again.
I read a lot about depression and estrogen, and estrogen changing one’s though processes. I don’t believe that it is true, except that it clinically makes a person less aggressive but this effect is subtle, if true.
In the past, the powers that be, refused to prescribe hormones to non-binary transsexuals. You had to sign something saying that you intended to change your sex in order to receive prescribed hormones. This appears much less true now. People should do some research and speak to their doctors and evaluate the risks of therapies using flutamide or spironolactone or estrogen.
Having finally upped the topical dosage of the Bi-estro products to one seventh of the canister per seven days, I think that I am seeing effects but people also have to realize that hair regrowth is not like grass growing on a lawn. We all look at our temples for little hairs. Maybe, but what is really happening is that the longer hairs are staying put longer and shaft diameters are increasing. I feel so bad for these guys desperately looking for little vellus hairs in the mirror and complaining about sheds. Every single guy on the various hair loss forums says the same thing: “Just started Treatment X yesterday but I am worried because I am doing an immediate shed.” Sorry, it is not a shed. You are still going bald. I know that there is some basis for the notion of shedding after some period of time when using certain remedies but I am firmly convinced that a “shed” is for the vast majority of us, a simple euphemism for “damn, it isn’t working.” The companies all love pushing the “shed” idea. Keep using it. Maybe it will work later if you buy more.
So, as you have indicated in your article, we know that many transgender and non-binary transgender people using female hormones and androgen blockers experience great improvements in their hair. I am going to try adding oral estrogen, flutamide or spironolactone to the estrogen and 1 mg of dutasteride mix. It takes a lot of effort to massage the topical estrogen daily. Luckily, due to your site, I don’t mind massaging for minutes and minutes and minutes to attempt to validate the massage idea.
As an aside, I believe in Nizoral and Dutasteride and I find pretty much the rest of the male-oriented hair loss mixtures to be either ineffective or not worth the trouble. Most are costly For what it costs and having to use it everyday, I don’t believe that minoxidil is worth the trouble. I think that the piece of the puzzle that differentiates me from the transgender people that you highlighted in your article is that my testosterone levels continue high and that might be hindering break-out growth. The literature on female baldness remedies references this need to move testosterone levels down to help regrowth.
By adding something to lower testosterone, that may be the last puzzle piece. It may also be that by upping the topical estrogen to the max, more or less, that that will lower the testosterone. Even though I have decided to be/become non-binary transgender, I still worry about libido and strength so I don’t want to lower my testosterone levels more than I have to. I hope to provide some input to anyone with questions. A lot of these guys seem to think that they are going to spontaneously combust if they touch estrogen. I think that the so-called side effects of estrogen are generally mild, unless the dosage is pushed and that what side effects do occur, for many people are an improvement, such as a decrease in acne, dandruff or oily skin or less body hair or much more sensitive skin and breasts and an improvement in hair quality. The soles of my feet used to be like tough leather they were so cross-linked and rough. Now they are smooth and pliable. That is all estrogen.
I really appreciate your site and your approach and I sincerely hope (and think) that you are right about most of your contentions and I share many of them.
Yours truly,
Jane Loeffler
Reply
Jane Loeffler
May 8, 2018 at 3:01 am
Rob,
I really admire your intellect and web site. The article on transgender individuals regaining hair matched the non-conclusive, cataloging research that I had done. I feel as though I have insight that could be helpful. Like many on your site, I have tried various and sundry ways to maintain my hair, from vitamins to minoxidil to surgery, then to Proscar but stopping to have a family and then going on Dutasteride after my children were born. Polysorbate actually seemed beneficial which was the infomercial rage in the mid-80s. Most people would say that I have a normal head of hair for a 53 year old. I can part my hair but I have some recession in the front and a bald spot that is visible depending on the light but that sometimes looks decently full. My side-patterns (fringe regions) remain intact and high. Many balding men go deep into the fringe area, so I hope that I am not complaining too much. When you start balding young, you think of yourself that way, even if hair loss stabilizes. I am still trying for more and better hair and research upon oneself is a tradition going way back.
Estrogen is not regulated in any serious way. This completely differs from testosterone for which one can serve serious time for possession without a prescription. Estrogen may grow hair but it does not make you good at sports so the powers that be largely ignore it.
Amazon sells a pretty potent estradiol/estriol blend for $19 that I have used since about 2013 when I became disappointed when it was evident that not even dutasteride was growing any hair back, as opposed to maintaining it. You can do the math but because it is a three quarters estriol/one quarter estradiol lotion, my calculations based upon the ratios and relative strengths of estriol and estradiol indicated that, roughly, one four ounce pump canister if used equally for seven days, would be equivalent to 6 to 8 mg of estradiol orally. Many transgender patients take 2 to 4 mg of estradiol orally each day, so you actually can get a big dose from transdermals.
When I could get my hands on it, I opted for Estrogel, which is pure estradiol, but which can require a prescription but mg for mg, there probably is not a lot of difference in terms of price/mgs of estradiol. Here is the Amazon version. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LYDBCG
/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have bought it on eBay as well. Sometimes Estrogel has been available on eBay. The Indian connection for obtaining prescription drugs has gotten more difficult and Amazon has the Bi-estro to my door in two days. I wish that it were solely estradiol but it is still at my door in two days so it is hard to complain.
So, without wasting too much of your time, does the Bi-estro work to grow hair? My answer is that it is still not clear to me whether it helps regrow hair or not. I firmly believe that it does/will but I am still taking dutasteride and I believe that most people (or scientists) would say that I am losing my hair extremely slowly rather than regaining it. I started balding at 18 in 1983 but minoxidil came out soon after that so I have had help that previous generations have not. My father is 80 and has Ronald Reagan hair and my mother has impossibly good hair for an 80 year old so the genetics is complicated. Both of my siblings, one male and one female have similar struggles with hair loss to mine, not overt baldness but more generalized thinning.
So I have kept pushing the estrogen. I feel as though there has to be a connection. I had terrible dermatitis, which would erupt into sores all over my head and estrogen cleared it up. I started using estrogen on my face which was blotchy, oily and difficult to shave without bleeding and irritation and all of that has cleared up. Estrogen does great things to skin in general.
So I have insight into the side effects of topical estrogen both on the head, face and two other control areas. Honestly, in my opinion, the side effects of estrogen, if someone is not actively trying to transition to the female sex, are pretty mild. I have never had any side effects from Proscar or dutasteride and I firmly believe that neither of those drugs have significant sides for many or most people.
First of all, yes, topical estrogen goes systemic. It seems to improve hair quality, which is often overlooked by the balding population, immediately. Let’s face it. There are millions of people with full heads of hair of frizzy hair that is difficult to style or comb and that does not look good or blow in the breeze well. For people like me, a significant increase in hair quality, even if the numbers don’t increase makes a big difference. I believe that the vast majority of men could benefit from topical estrogen at low risk. You start slow and you don’t push the dosage if gyno is a big deal to you and you monitor your erections and that is about it, at least in my case.
Your penis will not shrink and unless you push the dosage, you may still get erections without trouble and if not, v**** works for people in this situation. The testicle definitely shrink but can rebound if hormones are stopped.
Yes. I have gyno which does not matter that much to me, but even to those who fear it, gyno is far, far better than the scalp and facial conditions that I had due to dermatitis. On many, if not most men, the breast tissue will not be particularly prominent because men have fairly wide chests which flattens the tissue out. This is why most transgender women who want to be passable get breast implants. Otherwise the breast growth can be managed. If I had to choose between the head of hair that I had at 17 but with gyno, then that is an easy choice for me. Sexual side-effects are reversible. Yes, if you hit the estrogen heavy, you won’t want sex for a few days but is that such a tragedy?
The topicals also tie in to the massage idea. It takes quite a few pumps and many minutes of massage to consume several mgs of estrogen lotion. Thus, in a sense, it forces scalp massage. Since I just came across your transgender article, I recommitted to the attempt with estrogen by using more and combining it with increased massage. I do think that topical administration may take larger amounts than does oral administration.
A lot of things are happening now with respect to gender. Many of us are ashamed to admit that our attachment to our past hair might be indicative of binary or non-binary transgender issues. These concepts barely existed prior to Jenner in the public eye. Thus, now one can use estrogen to attempt to get the hairline that one wants. There is no need to become female or to want to become female. In my experience, most, if not all of the effects of estrogen, even after being used together with dutasteride off and on for years, are reversible and fairly quickly reversible. Yes, the testicles rebound and fast. The breasts decrease and with weight loss decrease even more, although there is an unalterable change in some of the core breast tissue. That change is a positive to me regardless of whether I identify as male or female. When I went off estrogen, I began fighting dermatitis again.
I read a lot about depression and estrogen, and estrogen changing one’s though processes. I don’t believe that it is true, except that it clinically makes a person less aggressive but this effect is subtle, if true.
In the past, the powers that be, refused to prescribe hormones to non-binary transsexuals. You had to sign something saying that you intended to change your sex in order to receive prescribed hormones. This appears much less true now. People should do some research and speak to their doctors and evaluate the risks of therapies using flutamide or spironolactone or estrogen.
Having finally upped the topical dosage of the Bi-estro products to one seventh of the canister per seven days, I think that I am seeing effects but people also have to realize that hair regrowth is not like grass growing on a lawn. We all look at our temples for little hairs. Maybe, but what is really happening is that the longer hairs are staying put longer and shaft diameters are increasing. I feel so bad for these guys desperately looking for little vellus hairs in the mirror and complaining about sheds. Every single guy on the various hair loss forums says the same thing: “Just started Treatment X yesterday but I am worried because I am doing an immediate shed.” Sorry, it is not a shed. You are still going bald. I know that there is some basis for the notion of shedding after some period of time when using certain remedies but I am firmly convinced that a “shed” is for the vast majority of us, a simple euphemism for “damn, it isn’t working.” The companies all love pushing the “shed” idea. Keep using it. Maybe it will work later if you buy more.
So, as you have indicated in your article, we know that many transgender and non-binary transgender people using female hormones and androgen blockers experience great improvements in their hair. I am going to try adding oral estrogen, flutamide or spironolactone to the estrogen and 1 mg of dutasteride mix. It takes a lot of effort to massage the topical estrogen daily. Luckily, due to your site, I don’t mind massaging for minutes and minutes and minutes to attempt to validate the massage idea.
As an aside, I believe in Nizoral and Dutasteride and I find pretty much the rest of the male-oriented hair loss mixtures to be either ineffective or not worth the trouble. Most are costly For what it costs and having to use it everyday, I don’t believe that minoxidil is worth the trouble. I think that the piece of the puzzle that differentiates me from the transgender people that you highlighted in your article is that my testosterone levels continue high and that might be hindering break-out growth. The literature on female baldness remedies references this need to move testosterone levels down to help regrowth.
By adding something to lower testosterone, that may be the last puzzle piece. It may also be that by upping the topical estrogen to the max, more or less, that that will lower the testosterone. Even though I have decided to be/become non-binary transgender, I still worry about libido and strength so I don’t want to lower my testosterone levels more than I have to. I hope to provide some input to anyone with questions. A lot of these guys seem to think that they are going to spontaneously combust if they touch estrogen. I think that the so-called side effects of estrogen are generally mild, unless the dosage is pushed and that what side effects do occur, for many people are an improvement, such as a decrease in acne, dandruff or oily skin or less body hair or much more sensitive skin and breasts and an improvement in hair quality. The soles of my feet used to be like tough leather they were so cross-linked and rough. Now they are smooth and pliable. That is all estrogen.
I really appreciate your site and your approach and I sincerely hope (and think) that you are right about most of your contentions and I share many of them.
Yours truly,
Jane Loeffler
Reply
- View attachment 157106
Rob
May 22, 2018 at 10:49 pm
Hey Jane,
Thanks for taking the time to read the content on this site, and for taking the time to write out your comments. I really appreciate it.
I’m still researching whether, for most binary men, how drastic of an effect topical estrogens could have from transdermal systemic absorption. The evidence suggests that estrogen (less so serum estrogen, and more so estrogen in skin tissues) appears to be pro-hair for both genders, and is involved in the stimulation of secondary hair for men and women (even without DHT). The exception is estrogen dominance in younger men (high serum estrogen / elevated estrogen metabolites — which is linked to inflammation). The questions that remain: what’s the mechanism of action? Is it estrogen specifically, or something further downstream? And what are the risks / side effects at each potential dosage / delivery?
Since I don’t yet have answers to the above, I can’t give you a concrete opinion on using Bi-estro for the treatment of male pattern baldness in the general population of men. But your perspective helps tremendously. It seems like it’s helping you, and if you’re comfortable with its related effects, then I hope it continues to help. Please keep me updated with your progress. I look forward to hearing more!
Best,
Rob
