I Am 18. Ashamed To Leave The House. 1 Year Since I Noticed Severe Balding.

[Arrade]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

You must be insanely f*****g dumb posting sh*t like this
I bet you're one of these guys from pfs fundation who didnt even tried finasteride

sMalLeR pEnIs
hIgHeR pItChEd VoIcE
lOw TeStoStErOnE - HAHAHAHA
bLa BlA bLa

Oh jesus f*****g christ, you even believe in brotzu lotion.

And ofcourse, people who trashtalking about finasteride didn't even took it once...

Jesus get the f*** out, you know nothing. LOL

No I took it topically. I can tell you're mentally stable, and I'm sure your continued use of finasteride is the cause of such mental fortitude

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

You must supremely stupid.

Yes a drug that castrates him. Let me what sides he could expect:
Smaller penis
Higher pitched voice
Narrower shoulder blades
Mental effects - depression, etc
Nervous system damage
Perpetually low DHT or androgen receptors in the body
Low Testosterone

Retard.

 

[Timii]

You must supremely stupid.

Yes a drug that castrates him. Let me what sides he could expect:
Smaller penis
Higher pitched voice
Narrower shoulder blades
Mental effects - depression, etc
Nervous system damage
Perpetually low DHT or androgen receptors in the body
Low Testosterone

Autistic broscience at its finest

 

[Arrade]

Autistic broscience at its finest

Ok... I basically stated the roles for the hormone dht, which finasteride removes 65% off.
So no broscience, just biological fact.

 

[Arrade]

Yes if you want to castrate yourself and cause mental damage please inhibit your 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DIsliking my comments on it is basically hurting yourself. So tired of your stupidity, a doctor or PHd in endcrinology would tell you same things about DHT! SO @ScaredOfBalding like a coward you pretend finasteride does not have side effect.

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

Ok... I basically stated the roles for the hormone dht, which finasteride removes 65% off.
So no broscience, just biological fact.

 

[inmyhead]

ha ha his protocol is decalcification

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

ha ha his protocol is decalcification

 

[bboy]

Yes if you want to castrate yourself and cause mental damage please inhibit your 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DIsliking my comments on it is basically hurting yourself. So tired of your stupidity, a doctor or PHd in endcrinology would tell you same things about DHT! SO @ScaredOfBalding like a coward you pretend finasteride does not have side effect.

Not that I want to get involved in a flame war, but given the data and studies we have, you're making some very shaky claims.

Given we have over 20 years of data on finasteride use, there is no good evidence to support what you're claiming is true. Putting your own personal experience aside, you have to look at the information we have in a dispassionate and objective manner. All the data we have suggest that finasteride sides are virtually statistically insignificant when compared to placebo.

You have to bear in mind that nearly all DHT is creaated in the tissue it is used, serum DHT seems to have no real use at all.

You are entitled to you own opinion, but making claims like you are, which files in the face of all the data we have, and stating it as fact is utterly irrational.

Finasteride is, for better of worse, the most rational and effective first step for anyone wanting to treat Androgenetic Alopecia.

 

[Arrade]

Not that I want to get involved in a flame war, but given the data and studies we have, you're making some very shaky claims.

Given we have over 20 years of data on finasteride use, there is no good evidence to support what you're claiming is true. Putting your own personal experience aside, you have to look at the information we have in a dispassionate and objective manner. All the data we have suggest that finasteride sides are virtually statistically insignificant when compared to placebo.

You have to bear in mind that nearly all DHT is creaated in the tissue it is used, serum DHT seems to have no real use at all.

You are entitled to you own opinion, but making claims like you are, which files in the face of all the data we have, and stating it as fact is utterly irrational.

Finasteride is, for better of worse, the most rational and effective first step for anyone wanting to treat Androgenetic Alopecia.

The studies done that said finasteride sides were minimal was done by the companies making and selling it.
They used to hide the fact it caused ED until enough people complained and research proved it immutable, so eventually it had to be listed as a side effect but not after many years of hiding it.

Please show me where serum DHT has no use, you have not presented any data about that.
Are you aware there is a class action lawsuit against finasteride for causing over 60+ suicides?
"
Depressive symptoms and suicidal thoughts among former users of finasteride with persistent sexual side effects"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22939118

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/43bm3m/i-need-to-quit-hair-loss-drugs-before-they-kill-me

As for the tissue action vs blood levels, I'll have to look into that more.

 

[bboy]

From Wikipedia

DHT signals mainly in an intracrine and paracrine manner in the tissues in which it is produced, playing only a minor role, if any, as a circulating endocrine hormone.[3][4][5]

The studies were paid for my the companies making them, of course, but they had to go through the FDA. The FDA are a lot of things, but risk takers is not one of them. And drug companies will throw away a drug that has even a whiff of potential lawsuit about it. Look at what happend to SHH a potential billion dollar treatment was dropped by Procter & Gamble at the fist suggestion of potential cancer.

The study you posted literally took 61 men suffering from sexual dysfunction and found they were more depressed than those without sexual dysfunction. It didn't even attempt in anyway to show this was caused by finasteride, that's just pure conjecture.

 

[Arrade]

Also from wikipedia:
Metabolites of DHT have been found to act as neurosteroids with their own AR-independent biological activity.[17] 3α-Androstanediol is a potent positive allosteric modulator of the GABAA receptor, while 3β-androstanediol is a potent and selective agonist of the estrogen receptor (ER) subtype ERβ.[17] These metabolites may play important roles in the central effects of DHT and by extension testosterone, including their antidepressant, anxiolytic, rewarding/hedonic, anti-stress, and pro-cognitive effects.[17][18]

 

[Arrade]

Sexual dysfunction, including erectile dysfunction, loss of libido, and reduced ejaculate volume, may occur in 3.4 to 15.8% of men treated with finasteride or dutasteride.[34][35] A small increase in the risk of affective symptoms including depression, anxiety, and self-harm may be seen.[36][37][38] Both the sexual dysfunction and affective symptoms may be due partially or fully to prevention of the synthesis of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone rather necessarily than due to inhibition of DHT production.[36]

 

[Arrade]

I think the whole effort by proponents of finasteride is to pretend that DHT simply doesn't exist, and thus removing it won't in fact be a detriment to all the functions DHT plays in the body.

I don't necessarily expect to win an argument with men who are willing to castrate themselves, that goes beyond sound reasoning.

 

[bboy]

I think the whole effort by proponents of finasteride is to pretend that DHT simply doesn't exist, and thus removing it won't in fact be a detriment to all the functions DHT plays in the body.

I don't necessarily expect to win an argument with men who are willing to castrate themselves, that goes beyond sound reasoning.

But you are simple cherry picking studies that suit your bias and dismissing those that don't as corrupt.

All the large and complete studies, involving thousands show a very low side effects profile. The studies that point the other way are tiny, not even always controlled and inconclusive. For instance from a review you cited as evidence

A direct link between sexual dysfunction and 5ARIs can be difficult to completely establish. Mondaini et al found that sexual adverse events were higher in patients taking finasteride who had been counseled about potential sexual side effects compared to a group where the counseling was omitted.34,41 The difference in groups was thought due to a “nocebo” effect where the reported adverse event was not directly related to the pharmacologic action of the drug.34,41 Additionally, Tosti et al in two different studies found no differences in the International Index of Erectile Function score in patients treated with finasteride versus placebo.49,50

There could be issues, but there's simply no good evidence to support this at this point, and plenty to suggest the opposite.

Stating people are "castrating" themselves is complete hyperbole and shows how emotionally distorted your opinion is on the matter.

You're simply the equivalent of an anti vaxxer. Your conclusions are driven by paranoia and are untethered from reality.

I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but so far you've shown very little knowledge, given very little evidence and appear too emotionally involved in the question to form a rational conclusion.

 

[Arrade]

But you are simple cherry picking studies that suit your bias and dismissing those that don't as corrupt.

All the large and complete studies, involving thousands show a very low side effects profile. The studies that point the other way are tiny, not even always controlled and inconclusive. For instance from a review you cited as evidence

A direct link between sexual dysfunction and 5ARIs can be difficult to completely establish. Mondaini et al found that sexual adverse events were higher in patients taking finasteride who had been counseled about potential sexual side effects compared to a group where the counseling was omitted.34,41 The difference in groups was thought due to a “nocebo” effect where the reported adverse event was not directly related to the pharmacologic action of the drug.34,41 Additionally, Tosti et al in two different studies found no differences in the International Index of Erectile Function score in patients treated with finasteride versus placebo.49,50

There could be issues, but there's simply no good evidence to support this at this point, and plenty to suggest the opposite.

Stating people are "castrating" themselves is complete hyperbole and shows how emotionally distorted your opinion is on the matter.

You're simply the equivalent of an anti vaxxer. Your conclusions are driven by paranoia and are untethered from reality.

I'm more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but so far you've shown very little knowledge, given very little evidence and appear too emotionally involved in the question to form a rational conclusion.

In regards to the Tosti et al study #49:
"a brief, reliable questionnaire, was self-administered to 236 patients taking Propecia and 236 age-matched males attending the Department of Dermatology of the University of Bologna."
So you asked men to tattle on themselves if they Have ED. Not sure that could be entirely reliable.

Your link listed #34:
"Sexual AEs are reported in clinical trials at rates of 2.1% to 38%. The most common sexual AE is ED, followed by EjD and decreased libido. These effects occur early in therapy and attenuate over time. A proposed mechanism for sexual dysfunction involves decreased nitric oxide synthase activity due to decreased dihydrotestosterone."
- I'm sorry but looking at that link I see no mention of a placebo effect or anything about counseling in the use of finasteride, #34 discusses literature review

In study #41:
"One hundred seven patients completed the study. Group 2 patients (N = 55) reported a significant higher proportion of one or more sexual side effects as compared to group 1 (N = 52) (43.6% vs. 15.3%) (P = 0.03)."
-Now this is the study that discusses that almost double the number of reported sexual side effects from those who were counseled about those side effects.
However, you still have 15% of users mentioning sexual side effects who could not have been betrayed to a nocebo effect; they received no counseling.

#50 is your strongest study, another self administered questionnaire. I am impressed they had so low numbers in negative side effects in this one.

"We did not evaluate changes in the ejaculate volume in this study because this subject is not assessed by the questionnaire, although decrease in ejaculate volume is not rare in our experience." from study #50.

 

[Arrade]

I think you are "cherrypicking" studies as much as me. I simply pulled them from wikipedia, not some pfs foundation site.
If you want to address the neurochemical metabolite issue I posted above go ahead
@bboy

 

[HairSuit]

That anyone believes that the FDA is in anyway shape or form a fair and unbiased governmental agency is simply dillusional. Castration is a bit far. But when the sides from finasteride hit you it’s very real. Everyone should try finasteride. It does work wonderfully. But, when the sides hit you, if they hit you, all the “studies” go out the window and sh*t gets real. Watch a documentary called “The Bleeding Edge”. Is it full proof science? No, and In this instance, it’s good that it’s not. It’s shocking what they condone and let their “buddies” get away with.

 

[Frankthetank]

I've used finasteride since 20 (23 now), have 0 sides, and have my hair. just my experience.

 

[Arrade]

I've used finasteride since 20 (23 now), have 0 sides, and have my hair. just my experience.

Fair enough. I won’t fear monger against finasteride.
Frankly I don’t see any reason someone couldn’t try finasteride for a week and see how they feel.

My only issue in this situation is that DHT is responsible for secondary sexual characteristics so a growing young man is at more risk.