I am scared because of post finasteride syndrome…

BetaBoy

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So According to you DHT is an useless hormone, the only useless hormone that human simple don't need it and neither the 5-alpha reductase eznyme, lol .
Yes absolutely, post puberty I don't see why a selectively androgenic hormone is necessary when Testosterone is abundantly produced.
By the way Genius, the study you posted is 14 years old !
Yep it was published in 2007, so that would indeed mean it is 14 years old by my calculations.
What it worst, it don't even mention the average age of the subjects
I can assure you it's all in there.
they used a questionnarie !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm thrilled by your enthusiasm for questionnaires! Specifically they use the MSF-4, a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility, clinical validity, when assessing male sexual function in a clinical setting
Not hormonal check ( estradiol, progesterone, allopregnolone, etc ) . This is why questionnarie only studies are useless.
Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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And I can be with that all the day. But, hey, it is your Finasterides brain fog that don't let you think . So don't worry.
Just an abstract with no way to compare with people balding who don't take finasteride and who experience sexual and suicidal sides.

But wow, just think how smart I would be if I hadn't been on finasteride for 23 years and the last six, on finasteride and duta both!
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Yes absolutely, post puberty I don't see why a selectively androgenic hormone is necessary when Testosterone is abundantly produced.

Yep it was published in 2007, so that would indeed mean it is 14 years old by my calculations.

I can assure you it's all in there.

I'm thrilled by your enthusiasm for questionnaires! Specifically they use the MSF-4, a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility, clinical validity, when assessing male sexual function in a clinical setting

Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
My understanding is that DHT differentiates the sexes after conception and then it initiates post-puberty hair growth of everything below the eye lashes and that, that is pretty much its main function aside from causing acne, dandruff, bacterial rashes, dermatitis and baldness. That's a lot to overcome in life, Comrade Booker.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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One thing that I believe makes male pattern baldness extremely difficult to eradicate in caucasians is that male hair growth appears to be finely calibrated among body hair, beard hair and scalp hair in that many males who are bald might have approximately the same amount of hair overall, considering head to toe, as females. I have seen beards as abundant as long female tresses on bald guys. So far, beard growth appears only mildly influenced by estrogen and elimination of DHT but how many guys would treat having no beard growth at all accompanied by a full juvenile head of hair? <raises hand>

Do minoxidil beards hinder scalp hair growth or is it just the T being taken by FtM's that causes this? Many FtM's appear to be able to de-transition though to regain hair although it might still be tricky. I saw elimination of all of my rampant dermatitis only after beard removal. When oral minoxidil made my beard grow some again, I again saw small traces of dermatitis next to my nose. These flare-ups are painful if you wear glasses. They eventually crust over and you can peel them off. I used to have dermatitis on face and all over scalp but beard removal, Duta and estrogen appear to finally have halted my painful and ugly dermatitis which was an equal cause in my decision to use HRT.
 

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JaneyElizabeth

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One thing that I believe makes male pattern baldness extremely difficult to eradicate in caucasians is that male hair growth appears to be finely calibrated among body hair, beard hair and scalp hair in that many males who are bald might have approximately the same amount of hair overall, considering head to toe, as females. I have seen beards as abundant as long female tresses on bald guys. So far, beard growth appears only mildly influenced by estrogen and elimination of DHT but how many guys would trade having no beard growth at all accompanied by a full juvenile head of hair? <raises hand>

Do minoxidil beards hinder scalp hair growth or is it just the T being taken by FtM's that causes this? Many FtM's appear to be able to de-transition though to regain hair although it might still be tricky. I saw elimination of all of my rampant dermatitis only after beard removal. When oral minoxidil made my beard grow some again, I again saw small traces of dermatitis next to my nose. These flare-ups are painful if you wear glasses. They eventually crust over and you can peel them off. I used to have dermatitis on face and all over scalp but beard removal, Duta and estrogen appear to finally have halted my painful and ugly dermatitis which was an equal cause in my decision to use HRT. Just for the facial changes, I would continue with this but beard removal accomplishes a great deal on its own. The last pic is before I went on high-dose estradiol but just after beard removal had been substantially been completed for the first time. Oral min has increased beard growth so I have gone down from 12.5mg twice daily to only 6.25mg in the morning which gives one's under-eye areas 24 hours to recover to avoid the "alien eyes" look as I call it.
 

jamesbooker1975

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Yes absolutely, post puberty I don't see why a selectively androgenic hormone is necessary when Testosterone is abundantly produced.

Yep it was published in 2007, so that would indeed mean it is 14 years old by my calculations.

I can assure you it's all in there.

I'm thrilled by your enthusiasm for questionnaires! Specifically they use the MSF-4, a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility, clinical validity, when assessing male sexual function in a clinical setting

Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
Dude, really, read some endocrinology book . Think that DHT is useless is propaganda form the 90s from Merck.
Plus, do you understand that is not just DHT what you are inhibiting !?
The following reactions are known to be catalyzed by 5α-reductase

It is really that hard to understand ? Besides DHT you are blocking all this other reactions .
 

jamesbooker1975

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Yes absolutely, post puberty I don't see why a selectively androgenic hormone is necessary when Testosterone is abundantly produced.

Yep it was published in 2007, so that would indeed mean it is 14 years old by my calculations.

I can assure you it's all in there.

I'm thrilled by your enthusiasm for questionnaires! Specifically they use the MSF-4, a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility, clinical validity, when assessing male sexual function in a clinical setting

Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
"Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
Yes , sure Who need androgens for male libido after all, hahahahahahahahahahaha

I have to admint, I have never, never read such stupid thing in the history of internet than "hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function"
Kid, go back to school.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Means what? You are making value-judgments, Comrade, in terms of what effects people might want or experience and it's far from clear if you only mean sexual sides which I never had unless finasteride turned me trans. The estradiol experience is light years ahead of the male one, at least post-high school.

I am uncertain as to the extent that the infamous backdoor pathway even exists as a practical matter although it's impossible to deny that some sort of masculinization of MtF's external appearance can be caused by or after SRS. But in terms of mood, the mood space again is wonderful as long as one isn't addicted to slaying and conquering and being an aggressive a**h** as I so often was. "Sorry, honey. I promise that I am doing this for you if you will give me a chance just to explain...." Hair is mood-enhancing, Comrade B. but yes, mildly chest enhancing too. I don't even need body building to puff out my chest.

You could be such an amazing contributor if you just learned some manners but I get that being all brassy is part of your shtick. Mine is just being adorable while never keeping my mouth shut nor stopping from seeking attention and approval from others. Will never did and look what happened to him. He decayed overnight.
 

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JaneyElizabeth

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Come on James. Taste the forbidden fruit....Promise you will like it....

Take the blue pill Janey says, it's far better than your current reality. Afraid that you might like it?

Red pill as transgender allegory[edit]​

Fan theories have suggested that the red pill may represent an allegory for transgender people or a story of Lana and Lilly Wachowski's history as coming out as transgender.[12][13] During the 1990s, a common male-to-female transgender hormone therapy involved Premarin, a maroon tablet.[14] Lilly Wachowski confirmed that this theory was correct in August 2020.[15]
 

BetaBoy

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Dude, really, read some endocrinology book . Think that DHT is useless is propaganda form the 90s from Merck.
Legit gone through 4 different clinical endocrinology textbooks and the only times DHT are mentioned are in relation to it's importance for virilization/masculination.
Plus, do you understand that is not just DHT what you are inhibiting !?
Really?! No I never knew that...
Those chemicals sure do look scary.
"Yep no hormonal panel, hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function. I can assure you standardised questionnaires are well established and are the best methods we currently have to determine the sexual function.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
Yes , sure Who need androgens for male libido after all, hahahahahahahahahahaha'
Use your head, if I'm trying to assess the sexual function of a patient in a study, I'm not going to be able to determine interest in sex, quality of erection, achievement of orgasm, and achievement of ejaculation from bloodwork. No if i want to assess the function of a patient, I'll use the most reliable source there is the patient themselves.

I have to admint, I have never, never read such stupid thing in the history of internet than "hormones are not going to tell you anything about sexual function"
Kid, go back to school.
Yeah I'm the one who need's to go back to school, really!? The poster with seemingly a 5 year olds level of literary attainment? Like not even trying to be abelist or anything, but it ain't a good look being 40+ and still struggling to form a sentence.

"read some endocrinology book . Think that DHT is useless is propaganda form the 90s from Merck"
"I have never, never read such stupid thing in the history of internet"
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Legit gone through 4 different clinical endocrinology textbooks and the only times DHT are mentioned are in relation to it's importance for virilization/masculination.

Really?! No I never knew that...

Those chemicals sure do look scary.

Use your head, if I'm trying to assess the sexual function of a patient in a study, I'm not going to be able to determine interest in sex, quality of erection, achievement of orgasm, and achievement of ejaculation from bloodwork. No if i want to assess the function of a patient, I'll use the most reliable source there is the patient themselves.


Yeah I'm the one who need's to go back to school, really!? The poster with seemingly a 5 year olds level of literary attainment? Like not even trying to be abelist or anything, but it ain't a good look being 40+ and still struggling to form a sentence.

"read some endocrinology book . Think that DHT is useless is propaganda form the 90s from Merck"
"I have never, never read such stupid thing in the history of internet"
To be fair, James is Russian and admittedly, Slavs have different verbal constructions. I also noted his lack of grammar but eh, maybe it's not fair game. He's an archetype on these types of fora, the know-everything type who is unable to temper his knowledge with grace and understanding that most mere mortals have no idea what the hell he is talking about.
 

BetaBoy

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To be fair, James is Russian and admittedly, Slavs have different verbal constructions. I also noted his lack of grammar but eh, maybe it's not fair game. He's an archetype on these types of fora, the know-everything type who is unable to temper his knowledge with grace and understanding that most mere mortals have no idea what the hell he is talking about.
Alright fair enough, his western username threw me. Still doesn't excuse the intellectual dishonesty.
 

jamesbooker1975

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Legit gone through 4 different clinical endocrinology textbooks and the only times DHT are mentioned are in relation to it's importance for virilization/masculination.

Really?! No I never knew that...

Those chemicals sure do look scary.

Use your head, if I'm trying to assess the sexual function of a patient in a study, I'm not going to be able to determine interest in sex, quality of erection, achievement of orgasm, and achievement of ejaculation from bloodwork. No if i want to assess the function of a patient, I'll use the most reliable source there is the patient themselves.


Yeah I'm the one who need's to go back to school, really!? The poster with seemingly a 5 year olds level of literary attainment? Like not even trying to be abelist or anything, but it ain't a good look being 40+ and still struggling to form a sentence.

"read some endocrinology book . Think that DHT is useless is propaganda form the 90s from Merck"
"I have never, never read such stupid thing in the history of internet"
Lol, Dude, there is nothing less scienctific than a Questionary. Again, post where it said that DHT and all the other hormones are useless. It is really waste of time keep answering you, I strongly suggest you to read ! and not TMZ , dumb.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Alright fair enough, his western username threw me. Still doesn't excuse the intellectual dishonesty.
The thing that I find endearing is when James calls people "dumb" or "stupid" or whatever negative adjective when purportedly he wants to convince you of his point of view. I find that people in life don't respond well to being called epithets. The point he is raising again, appears to be based on what I call conceptual logic, the same as our prostaglandin-inclined friends. Many of them who are honest will admit that they have no idea why protaglandins only slightly work or don't work at all. One guy said that his flow chart was perfect and still no hair improvement.

So while I don't doubt what he is saying is relevant conceptually, it is probably the case that for most or many people, the other metabolites or post metabolites of DHT, yes need reductase but in actuality, these other transformations are largely irrelevant to physical or mental health or James, they could actually be negatives for many people so there is no cause for concern when weighing the devastating effects of baldness against the chance of temporary sides, much less so, ones that endure for years.

Again, the Romans understood the concept of post hoc ergo propter hoc, why don't people today?

I don't know what his solution to baldness is besides deriding finasteride and the people like me who think it is the greatest advance in hair loss prevention ever, in the history of mankind. I have no doubt that finasteride and duta save lives from both suicide but also from indolence and apathy and isolation that all come from being bald or balding to the point that it ruins one's life. It's not just the hair loss. Most of us expect that, gradually perhaps but what shocks me since I first noticed when I was almost 20, but people contact me who started balding at 13, 14, 15, and so on. I can only imagine the horror of that and how it would psychologically scar a person forever.

While calling baldness "disfigurement" is excessive, there are very few other transformations in life that could change a person's appearance more than being completely bald, especially in say one to two years in an unrelenting manner. People some times complain that I am the Pied Piper of transgenderism, out to destroy the maleness of our youth--Goddess knows, we could have a war and nothing but pansies with long hair ready to fight the, well not commies but somebody and we won't be ready.

Given that most of HRT, if not all of HRT for males is reversible, I think maintaining hair might be a goal of many, many young people. We may also find ways to use lower amounts of estradiol for younger people to avoid outward feminization but even if not, breast reduction is more reliable than transplants and women, particularly younger women say from 12 to 25, tend to prefer less threatening men. Look at the teeny bopper magazines. This dates me a lot but they featured stars like Scott Baio and Leif Garret, not Clint Eastwood or Burt Reynolds. Anyone who looks a picture of Leif Garret when he was 16 and then at 21 can only feel heartbreak for the guy. Like @bridgeburn, who did it in reverse, Garret lost his age and his youth in a second and then wore a bandana on his head going forward and I get it.

These pics are not for the faint at heart guys but the ravages of DHT are devastating and females, unless they rarely bald, never face anything like this sort of falling off a cliff, looks-wise.

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BetaBoy

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Lol, Dude, there is nothing less scienctific than a Questionary.
Marquis P, Marrel A. Reproducibility and clinical and concurrent validity of the MSF-4: A four-item male sexual function questionnaire for patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia. Value Health 2001;4: 335–43
Conclusion: "The MSF-4 is a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility and clinical validity, which allows easy and appropriate assessment of male sexual function in the clinical setting."

That scientific enough for you?

Again, post where it said that DHT and all the other hormones are useless. It is really waste of time keep answering you, I strongly suggest you to read ! and not TMZ , dumb.

My endocrinology textbook has this to say when discussing the function DHT has on the stages of male development:

"DHT does not play a significant role in the normal physiology of adults. The most notable effects are prostate enlargement and male pattern hair loss as they age."

Referencing this article:

Roth MY, Page ST. A role for dihydrotestosterone treatment in older men? Asian J Androl. 2011 Mar;13(2):199-200
 

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JaneyElizabeth

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Marquis P, Marrel A. Reproducibility and clinical and concurrent validity of the MSF-4: A four-item male sexual function questionnaire for patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia. Value Health 2001;4: 335–43
Conclusion: "The MSF-4 is a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility and clinical validity, which allows easy and appropriate assessment of male sexual function in the clinical setting."

That scientific enough for you?



My endocrinology textbook has this to say when discussing the function DHT has on the stages of male development:

"DHT does not play a significant role in the normal physiology of adults. The most notable effects are prostate enlargement and male pattern hair loss as they age."

Referencing this article:

Roth MY, Page ST. A role for dihydrotestosterone treatment in older men? Asian J Androl. 2011 Mar;13(2):199-200
My question about DHT versus T is which drives male ideation more? Secondarily, it's whether other androgens affect hair, beard and vellus hair growth, including T and Androstenedione and the other "andro" metabolites. One of the worst effects of excessive T/DHT is persistent fixation and ideation which is much less present in females. Virtually all sex offenders are male and MtF HRT seems to have pronounced effects on what sorts of things "turn us on". There's a reason so-called incels are fixated on hair loss, well besides that it is a ravaging condition but also because we tend to fixate. This might be great in the business world or for me in terms of memorizing baldness protocols but if someone wants to be a slayer and is bald, not so much. The plague of these submissive fetishes are even worse with the internet and now I sound like grandma but I have been there and too much T/DHT is simply miserable.

No, beating off five times a day or refusing to have orgasms won't make you go bald or save your hair but it's an enormous and I hesitate to make value judgments but in the eyes of the world, it's an enormous waste of time to ideate about becoming a cuckold or living as the pet of a superior female complete with dog bowl and cage. I have claustrophobia so that wasn't going to work for me plus I never liked eating from a dog bowl or using one to lap up water.

I promise that for many of us, less T/DHT is likely a blessing unless you are a p**rn star, soldier or engage in manual labor but how many of us do these things?
 

ChemHead

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My endocrinology textbook has this to say when discussing the function DHT has on the stages of male development:

"DHT does not play a significant role in the normal physiology of adults. The most notable effects are prostate enlargement and male pattern hair loss as they age."

You should throw that in the garbage... Or at least strike through that particular text in the book if there's anything valuable in it lmao. That statement is insanity. It's also the height of foolishness. 5a-reduced steroids, including DHT, in both male and female bodies, are essential to normal and healthy physiological function. Somehow, people (even in scientific and medical professions) have deluded themselves into believing that if a hormone is not present in very significant amounts in serum, it must not be that important.

If you truly want to know how much DHT the body makes, don't measure the concentration of DHT in serum.. measure its metabolites. DHT is not meant to be in serum, which is why it largely isn't. It would be just as foolish to downplay the significance of estrogens in men because of their low serum concentrations relative to endocrine steroids like testosterone. These steroids don't really belong in high concentrations in serum, but don't let that fool you into believing that your body does not make a lot of them. In healthy, optimally functioning bodies, they're meant to be synthesized in specific types of tissue via enzymatic metabolism of endocrine steroids and then metabolized after use before being transported for further metabolism and elimination. If everything is working right, you should barely notice they're there when checking their serum concentrations... because they don't belong there.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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You should throw that in the garbage... Or at least strike through that particular text in the book if there's anything valuable in it lmao. That statement is insanity. It's also the height of foolishness. 5a-reduced steroids, including DHT, in both male and female bodies, are essential to normal and healthy physiological function. Somehow, people (even in scientific and medical professions) have deluded themselves into believing that if a hormone is not present in very significant amounts in serum, it must not be that important.

If you truly want to know how much DHT the body makes, don't measure the concentration of DHT in serum.. measure its metabolites. DHT is not meant to be in serum, which is why it largely isn't. It would be just as foolish to downplay the significance of estrogens in men because of their low serum concentrations relative to endocrine steroids like testosterone. These steroids don't really belong in high concentrations in serum, but don't let that fool you into believing that your body does not make a lot of them. In healthy, optimally functioning bodies, they're meant to be synthesized in specific types of tissue via enzymatic metabolism of endocrine steroids and then metabolized after use before being transported for further metabolism and elimination. If everything is working right, you should barely notice they're there when checking their serum concentrations... because they don't belong there.

Any citations for that, before you exhort the hordes to destroy books? We really don't know what controls mood vel non and the anti-finasteride people are usually bald and ornery.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Marquis P, Marrel A. Reproducibility and clinical and concurrent validity of the MSF-4: A four-item male sexual function questionnaire for patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia. Value Health 2001;4: 335–43
Conclusion: "The MSF-4 is a psychometrically validated questionnaire with good reproducibility and clinical validity, which allows easy and appropriate assessment of male sexual function in the clinical setting."

That scientific enough for you?



My endocrinology textbook has this to say when discussing the function DHT has on the stages of male development:

"DHT does not play a significant role in the normal physiology of adults. The most notable effects are prostate enlargement and male pattern hair loss as they age."

Referencing this article:

Roth MY, Page ST. A role for dihydrotestosterone treatment in older men? Asian J Androl. 2011 Mar;13(2):199-200
Nothing like slinging insults to "convince" others. Anti-finasteride people are religious in their feelings about it, meaning the science of it is irrelevant. And I don't mean conjectural science which seems to be always wrong about the science of hair loss. James hasn't a single solution to baldness nor has he any positives about DHT unless one is an athlete. From what I can tell, DHT differentiates the sexes after conception and then it mediates secondary hair growth during puberty and that's it.
 
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