Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

Let me rephrase to help you understand better. There's no reason for me to post on any other thread because every other thread is pointless or years away. Participating in those threads has no effect, so the only reason I would participate would be if I wanted to discuss with you demented fuckwads, which is not something I have any desire to do. Is that simpler to understand? The reason I post in this thread isn't to have a fun conversation with you dimwits, it's to post information that people want to pretend to ignore as I watch people spout false bullshit about this product. Unfortunately it's annoys me when I watch gullible dipshits lap up the garbage that borderline schizophrenics like Arrade and others say, so I feel obligated to post to clear up any misleading information they say. To clarify, there's nothing wrong with seeking help for your hair loss on sites like this, but there is something wrong with lingering. If anything, there's something wrong with you if you're not insecure about being a regular on this forum. If you find a home here then you have something much bigger wrong with you than hair loss.

Regardless, your post is an attack on me and not my position against Brotzu's lotion, so it's pointless. Feel free to pick a part of I said about the lotion to counter.

Your entire post was an attack on me and the other members of the forum. You believe we are less than you because we are openly participating in discussion about our hairloss struggles. Get off your high horse, man. I don't appreciate you coming here looking down on us. This forum also functions as a support group, we don't need assholes like you making us feel worse about our struggles.

 

[BalderBaldyBald]

Calm down. I haven’t looked into it for over half a year, which i already stated
I’ll have to read more about the paracrine idea, but if that is so then Why are there blood levels of DHT?

Like i said, do some research before throwing nonsense

Serum DHT levels are about 10% of those of testosterone, but levels in the prostate gland are 5- to 10-fold higher than those of testosterone due to a more than 90% conversion of testosterone into DHT by locally expressed 5α-reductase.[7] For this reason, and in addition to the fact that DHT is much more potent as an AR agonist than is testosterone,[45] DHT is considered to be the major androgen of the prostate gland.[7]

 

[dale602]

I made an account specifically because of the Brotzu thread. Commenting on other threads would then mean that I casually frequent a hair loss forum, which is not something I want to be known for even to only myself.

I've said all this before multiple times, but I'll do it again.

I was an early defender of the lotion. I did all the research and I did the necessary mental gymnastics for the science to make sense, and I won't lie that parts of it still theoretically make sense (but so do those of many drugs that end up failing). What's sad is I can see the same logic people use now that I also used back in 2016, so I can somewhat empathize. I also went through the faulty logic that Merck would try to shut it down because it would cut into their sales. I also went through the faulty logic of "why would a respected Doctor lie" and "Fidia is a reputable company, they wouldn't risk their reputation on a scam." I won't sugarcoat the fact that I was f*****g retarded back then just like you and others are now. The thin threads of hope blinded me to the flagrant inconsistencies in Brotzu's own words and the fact that the ingredients are basically the same as hundreds of other cosmetic anti-fall products that have existed on the market for decades that don't work:

All of them share the same basic ingredients:

1. A derivate of gamma linolenic acid
- Borage oil and evening primrose oil and others, all very very old hair loss treatments. They all consist of Gamma-linoleic acid, aka GLA. GLA converts to DGLA in the body. DGLA is the main ingredient in Brotzu's lotion.

2. Some form of phytoestrogen (plant-based estrogen) or soy isoflavone. A popular one is Glycine Soja oil. They're meant to bind to estrogen receptor beta. They also play a large role in the whole chain of enzymes and metabolites that have been researched for decades to play a role in hair, such as PGE2, PGD2 and the COX-2 enzyme.
-S-equol and R-equol, the secondary ingredient in Brotzu's lotion, are soy isoflavones. Excluding their interaction with DHT, they very actively bind to estrogen receptor beta.

3. Some amino acid that aids in cell metabolism. There are so many of them. One that's used in some of these anti-fall lotions is L-Methionine.
-Brotzu's lotion uses L-Carnitine.

Those are the main ingredients in Brotzu's lotion. They're alarmingly similar to many other anti-fall lotions that have been out for decades and have research supporting that they are good for your hair.

It's important to know that the only 'discovery' ingredient is the DGLA (which is a precursor to the real discovery ingredient PGE1). the equol and L-Carnitine are "these 15 year old papers says it might be good for hair, so I'll just throw them into the batter and see how it works" ingredients. They were never anything and they do nothing. And we know from above that DGLA is nothing new in the hair loss industry.

The only 'new' thing is liposomal delivery, which aren't actually new. Hollywood hair doctors are big into the egg mixture scalp injections for hair treatments that have existed for many years. Guess what the Brotzu patent says they use for liposomes? phosphatidylcholine. Guess what's in eggs? phosphatidylcholine.

With that we've finally come full circle to the realization that this product will do basically nothing. It might make your hair feel nicer, who knows. But you will not regrow hair.

Liposomal delivery may not be new but I was under the impression it was not available in a commercial preparation (for hair loss) before...

Isn't it possible that a different formulation of the same basic ingredients combined with liposomal delivery will finally begin to be effective? The latest study seem to show limited results that become more noticeable over time...

How many cosmetic products were backed by similar studies?

 

[acbrantlin]

Your entire post was an attack on me and the other members of the forum. You believe we are less than you because we are openly participating in discussion about our hairloss struggles. Get off your high horse, man. I don't appreciate you coming here looking down on us. This forum also functions as a support group, we don't need assholes like you making us feel worse about our struggles.

Come on man how can you not grasp the point I was making. I wasn't criticizing the fact that you were attacking me. You can attack me all you want; personal attacks are great and underrated when used properly. I thought I was clearly conveying that since your post was ad hominem it does not devalue the arguments I made against Brotzu. People often think they do. Because in case you forgot, this thread is the Brotzu lotion thread.

If you want to feel supported, I'm sure there's a support group section. This is the new research section. If you feel that victimized over what I said, I can't help you. You need professional help. Look at your boy br1. He dishes it out and gets it dished back onto him tenfold. Is he wetting his pants? I mean maybe who the f*** knows. If you really need help then you need to pick up the phone and make a call, not whine on a forum when someone makes comment that hurts your feelings. I'm not your grief counselor.

 

[Umber]

Been away for a couple of days. Let me guess, no new pictures from Fidia?

 

[iKudo]

Been away for a couple of days. Let me guess, no new pictures from Fidia?

No
They did not even provide enough supply
one pharmacy said they only received 70 bottles

 

[Breyfogle]

Three boxes on their way!
Ordered from tuttofarma.it via parcl.com

 

[WheeljackG1]

Three boxes on their way!
Ordered from tuttofarma.it via parcl.com


View attachment 107104

What was your shipping cost?

 

[whatevr]

The leading research papers on the effects of equol on DHT were done Brigham Young University (earliest one I can find is 2004) by someone named T.D. Lund and they're mainly on its effects on DHT with respect to prostate cancer/BPH. His brother Steven Lund is the President and CEO of Nu Skin Enterprises, which is an American multi-level-marketing scheme. TD Lund licensed his research to his brother to use equol in an anti-aging product line. I'm not going to argue a point with that information, because there has been more unaffiliated research since, but many of them reference Lund's research. It's just information some other user here found awhile back that I found interesting. I think it was deadshotdevil or whatever his name is I don't give a sh*t.

Even if you doubt the effects of Equol on DHT binding, the estrogenic effect in stimulating ER-a and ER-b receptors is indisputable. This alone makes it have great potential for hair.

See this study (it has nothing to do with the authors whose validity you doubt):

Equol, a natural estrogenic metabolite from soy isoflavones: convenient preparation and resolution of R- and S-equols and their differing binding and biological activity through estrogen receptors alpha and beta.

Here you can see graphs which show the maximum estrogenic potential of S-Equol to be equal to that of estradiol (at a much higher dose of course), and has a very preferable binding profile to estrogen receptor beta, which should minimize potential sides of estrogen such as gynecomastia and feminine fat gain which are mostly mediated by estrogen receptor alpha.

I've personally used racemic equol at 30 - 60 mg / day topically, and the results started to show very quickly, but so did the side effects. Racemic equol has a much worse side effect profile than S-Equol and also downregulates 5AR1 gene, making it very unfavorable for hair loss. It still works, but has nasty side effects. Thankfully this is not what Brotzu is using.

This alone makes me have hope for this lotion. Out of all these the L-Carnitine is probably the most worthless. The DGLA I am unsure of, it may have some local 5-AR inhibitory properties just like GLA, or it may simply act as a PGE1 precursor.

I think telling people that this lotion won't work is just as much of a disservice as hyping it up, I'm just merely annoyed by people constantly coming in here (who mostly don't understand anything) - and acting like their opinion holds any weight. You seem to be somewhat more informed than the average naysayer. Surely you can at least agree that estrogenic compounds are largely beneficial in the case of Androgenetic Alopecia, and that simply on that merit S-Equol (and hence Brotzu's lotion) may have potential for hair loss.

 

[whatevr]

Thanks for this infomational post.

Are you going to use the brotzu lotion? If so, you'd be the perfect candidate to tell if you get any side effects or not because of your experience with the racemic equol.

Yes, I already bought two boxes - unfortunately I wasn't one of the lucky ones to get a shipment from the first batch, so I have to wait until they get more.

Personally, I don't think there are going to be side effects as the dose is so low, the question is are there going to be effects.

 

[Breyfogle]

What was your shipping cost?

235$ for three boxes. (78$ each)
40$ to ship.
60$ for all the parcl fees, insurance etc...

 

[JLC]

Can anyone who has more scientific knowledge me answer this question,
Would using this lotion have any effect on me gaining muscle mass?

At the moment I'm on a mission to gain lots more muscle mass, I'm weight lifting and eating lots of protein, my aim is to gain 2 stone in muscle weight over the next year. Reading about the lotion I read about possible raised estrogen and lowerd DHT, not good for building muscles, wondering if any more scientific forum members have opinions on this? and explain to me in layman's terms.
I googled and it looks like s equol could possibly actually help with muscles
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180118100752.htm

 

[RU serious]

Mine has been shipped from Antonio

 

[tzt]

Three boxes on their way!
Ordered from tuttofarma.it via parcl.com


View attachment 107104

look how big the box is !!! is it really 30ml or 300ml !!!

 

[Umber]

No
They did not even provide enough supply
one pharmacy said they only received 70 bottles

Good. I've started to creep into NW3 territory and was worried there'd be any good news

 

[Ollie]

Can anyone who has more scientific knowledge me answer this question,
Would using this lotion have any effect on me gaining muscle mass?

At the moment I'm on a mission to gain lots more muscle mass, I'm weight lifting and eating lots of protein, my aim is to gain 2 stone in muscle weight over the next year. Reading about the lotion I read about possible raised estrogen and lowerd DHT, not good for building muscles, wondering if any more scientific forum members have opinions on this? and explain to me in layman's terms.
I googled and it looks like s equol could possibly actually help with muscles
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180118100752.htm

You wont have any problem building muscle. You wouldn't have problem building muscle with finasteride or dutasteride let alone this lotion. DHT is useless for muscle - its androgenic, not anabolic, and gets quickly deactivated in the muscle by 3a-HSD.

You're not going to gain 2 stone in muscle though in a year lol even if its your first year - 10-15 pounds of lean muscle is possible if you're a newbie.

Source: Bodybuilder for 10 years.

 

[JLC]

You wont have any problem building muscle. You wouldn't have problem building muscle with finasteride or dutasteride let alone this lotion. DHT is useless for muscle - its androgenic, not anabolic, and gets quickly deactivated in the muscle by 3a-HSD.

You're not going to gain 2 stone in muscle though in a year lol even if its your first year - 10-15 pounds of lean muscle is possible if you're a newbie.

Source: Bodybuilder for 10 years.

Thanks for reply.

I'm not new to body building, just old, I'm 41, went to gym throughout 20s, got quite built then, lost all that muscle since then and recently was trying to regain it back.
Have been weight lifting again for 3 months and have gained 1/2 a stone in muscle in that time, so was hoping to keep up that level of gain and get 2 stone in a year, I realise at my age will be very hard.

 

[Arrade]

DHT does however make you strong. If you're worried about speed or power removing it could have a negative effect. (not the lotion per se)

 

[Ollie]

Thanks for reply.

I'm not new to body building, just old, I'm 41, went to gym throughout 20s, got quite built then, lost all that muscle since then and recently was trying to regain it back.
Have been weight lifting again for 3 months and have gained 1/2 a stone in muscle in that time, so was hoping to keep up that level of gain and get 2 stone in a year, I realise at my age will be very hard.

You've still got lots of potential at 41 man. If you were pretty built in your 20's you've probably got the muscle memory to put it back on pretty quickly then. All you can do is train and eat right but from the perspective of hair loss treatments there is nothing to worry about!

 

[Arrade]

At 41 you may be going through andropause - lower testoterone and raised estrogen.
I would consider your options in having an optimal hormone profile. I would avoid trt personally, I'm thinking something like the once a week use of an AI like exemestane or herbs that act as test boosters/aromatase inhibitors.
Your middle age hormonal state is highly likely to be compromised which is worth looking into
@JLC
Exercise could be enough but putting dat out there