Kintor has started Phase 3 trial in China for Pyrilutamide
- Thread starter Micky_007
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here is their poster. it seems they are quite equal in hair count however in personal and professional assessments 5% once seems a bit better but hard to say with such a small sample. I think they are probably quite equal
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I know, but at this point, I feel side effects just a few min after applying.
At the moment I am trying to find a balance.
0,25% once a day is good for my líbido but not for my hair.
In the results, 0,25% twice a day is enough to regrowth hair, but I think is going to be too much for my libido. Not sure what to do
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I mean I you feel them a few minutes after applying then we have identified that it is placebo. because that is neither enough for penetration and certainly not enough to find and bind to any androgen receptor especially outside of the skin cells of your scalp and ceertainly not enough to affect bioproteinsynthesis in the cells that affect your libido. even taking it orally would take hours and hours to show any effects. how do you know 0.25% is not enough for your hair? its not like you have been trialing that for a good period of time.
think about it this way. the difference between 0.5% twice and once a day is not that great and the difference between 0.25% twice and 0.5% once is not that great either. so it is plausible that 0.25% is somewhat effective as well. you could potentially combine it with a low dose of CB or fluridil or try some dose in between like 0.2% twice or anything that you can tolerate. the dosing does not have to be discrete in that regard.
also maybe just try it a bit longer, libido might just came back, certainly dont believe it can be affected "a few min after applying", you are not taking coke
think about it this way. the difference between 0.5% twice and once a day is not that great and the difference between 0.25% twice and 0.5% once is not that great either. so it is plausible that 0.25% is somewhat effective as well. you could potentially combine it with a low dose of CB or fluridil or try some dose in between like 0.2% twice or anything that you can tolerate. the dosing does not have to be discrete in that regard.
also maybe just try it a bit longer, libido might just came back, certainly dont believe it can be affected "a few min after applying", you are not taking coke
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He might be taking coke
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I dont think pharmacy grade pyrilutamide should give you stomach burning. maybe try a different supplier I heard someone on reddit say they had different experiences with different suppliers. or just try a different drug like CB at this point and wait for pharmacy grade pyrilutamide. it could be that you get stomach pain that fast but not from the anti androgenic effect of the drug but because there is some other weird stuff mixed in and in that case you should be careful anyway. however it'd be strange that you did not have that during the 6 weeks previously
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I'm in the same boat as you actually, I don't feel anything right after applying but I'm seeing anti-androgenic sides creep in at 2.5mg a day so I'm cutting back to 1.25mg. I have seen an improvement in hair thickness though, the stuff seems legit.
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since the sides with pyrilutamide must be dose dependent I wonder what makes someone prone to them so they get sides on half or even less than that of the dose where the plasma concentrations must be incredibly small compared to the trial yet there nobody has sexual side effects.
with finasteride okay, you take 1/4th of the dose and have 95% of the effect hair and systemic wise. with pyrilutamide you take 1/4th you still have a good chunk of the effect on hair but the systemic effect should be 1/4th and since the concentration with the 10mg a day was so low that all men in the study could tolerate it there must be something to it that gives so many people on reddit and here these side effects. the percentage is too large compared to the study
with finasteride okay, you take 1/4th of the dose and have 95% of the effect hair and systemic wise. with pyrilutamide you take 1/4th you still have a good chunk of the effect on hair but the systemic effect should be 1/4th and since the concentration with the 10mg a day was so low that all men in the study could tolerate it there must be something to it that gives so many people on reddit and here these side effects. the percentage is too large compared to the study
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what are the anti androgenic sides? stuff like gyno or libido? not sure if you will see efficacy on 1.25mg. odd that people are reacting to it so differently.
its such a small amount if you think about it, for the covid and cancer trial they gave patients 300mg orally so the systemic effect should be an order of thousand lower with this drug. plus pyrilutamide is weaker than proxilutamide. of course people obviously get side effects on the latter but just to get an idea of the amount of anti androgenic activity. if 300mg proxy is used to silence most androgenic activity in the body then 10mg pyri topically is minuscule
I developed a crazy sensibility for the Finasteride worst side effects, in the span of 4 years.
I'm suspecting that people who are getting sides from pyri, probablyhad them with finasteride.
I had gyno, from literally absurdly small amount of finasteride. Like 0,02mg. I dropped the treatment because I can't rub that venom against my scalp for more than 3 or 4 days without getting sides. That made me think that... What if the body, in some people case, is the one that has an overreaction to the systemic hormonal changes? Like a receptor upregulation, but with T, I suppose, where the process of aromatization starts with the slightest of changes. I don't know, as if the body learned, and developed a reflex response, that it's not so dependant of the dose.
Just a thesis.
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so as far as the studies go, with 0.01mg there is no statistically significant change in DHT and thus most likely any other sex hormone after 12 months. It is hard for me to imagine that doubling that can take someone from no statistically significant inhibition at all to gyno inducing hormonal shift but I guess it can happen because its just statistical averages and some have higher some lower inhibition and sensitivity.
however I think I doesnt need to be the case that someone who gets sides from finasteride gets sides from pyrilutamide. e.g if someone is reliant on DHT or has little of it or is a heavy aromatiser finasteride can be really bad but small amounts of a topical AA could be fine because we dont really see an increase in estrogen there.
I dont know what you mean with up regulation, aromatization can start with the slightest changes I guess once you see a raise in testosterone.
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I got gyno from a very low finasteride dose (0.25mg EOD to every 3 days). Based on that I suspect I'd be more sensitive to anti-androgen treatments than most people. With pyri I'm getting a reduced sex drive and ball ache mainly.
You can't count anything out when it comes to anti-androgens, such a variance in reactions, some people tolerate finasteride perfectly and some people get fucked up by a tiny dose. And obviously on the forums it's the latter group that are the loudest.
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I'm talking about a non proportional aromatisation. Like it's aromatising way more than should for the actual DHT level change.
I know it sounds hard to believe. But Finasteride can inhibit systemic DHT at 0.01mg TOPICAL... It's absurd, but gyno doesn't lie. Three aplications, x1 Eod, it's enough. Itch, tenderness... I was checked by a Dr. , and it wasn't nocebo.
I applied topical from age 21 to age 25, and I clearly developed a sensibility. Don't know if it's an increase in aromatization, or that my T absolute levels dropped from that age, and so lees T and more estrogen with aromatization.
My hormonal axis seems to be very efficient, or be functional in a very narrow bracket of values.
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again there is no evidence for heart failure with these kind of drugs.
there is no incidences of heart failure even with oral anti androgens. they used proxilutamide in their trials at 200mg orally. so lets say you use 10mg topically of pyrilutamide, that is 1/20th of the dose and topically so probably less than a hundredth and additionally proxilutamide is much stronger itself. so you are many hundred times weaker in anti androgenic action than the pills they use and these do not cause heart failure at all. the amount that gets in your blood is minuscule. there is just one fake report using RU on the internet and everybody went after it
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I think that could only work if finasteride itself stimulates the aromatase enzyme so that all the increased testosterone gets all converted to estrogen.
> But Finasteride can inhibit systemic DHT at 0.01mg TOPICAL
this is of course bullshit. there are various studies using 0.01mg oral and DHT inhibition was not statistically significant to placebo. topical they used 0.1mg in the mazzarella study, they measured all sex hormones and have found no change. so there are two different kinds of evidence with doses 10-30 fold higher than what you are describing showing no changes in sex hormones, I appreciate your personal anecdote but 0.001% every third day topical is actually a laughable amount. thats 1/10th of the mazarella study where nobody saw DHT inhibition and that every third day. maybe you mixed up the decimals but at that point you might as well count actual finasteride molecules and dose them individually. but people claim to get gyno from weed or eating certain foods so gyno might be different reaction to ridiculous changes in estrogen. however I would challenge you to measure your estradiol before and during that regimen and id be very surprised if it increases at all outside of daily fluctuations. because that dose does not suppress DHT it cannot increase estrogen. because it can only increase estrogen by conversion of excess testosterone which you do not have when DHT does not change.
maybe a blood evaluation would be a good idea in general if you think your body reacts so severely too it. maybe you have baseline hormonal problems too. personally for example I have very high estrogen compared to testosterone and dht and thats an issue I think.
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have you thought about cutting out the gyno tissue? I read from many people that got gyno then cut it out and then it never came back even back on a higher dose of finasteride. Sure the potential is there but I think there was even a study showing it rarely comes back when the surgery is well done
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I had surgery to remove the gyno yeah. But it wasn't the only side effect I got from finasteride, as much as I wish I could handle it with no issues.