New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?
- Thread starter Jlyncher
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FredTheBelgian, I wish it wasn't true. The problem is that it happened to me (and I was never on any kind of hairloss forum before I noticed, so placebo effect can be ruled out). I didn't know about that possible side effect, as it is not on the official list. Took me a very long time to figure out, b/c I didn't link minoxidil and the haggard look of my facial skin. I did some photo documentation and also asked my friends; all of them confirmed my own observations (i.e., friends even asked me how the heck I got so wrinkly; the worst was "man, you look like a drug addict geezer").
It probably does not happen to everybody, but to me it definitely happened. I'm off it for two months now. The wrinkles have vanished to some degree but far from completely. I really hope they will. The dark under eye circles are still 100% there, and I never had any before minoxidil. Some other people experiencing the same sides that I talked to said that they were back to normal after 6 months; others I talked to said they never recovered... wish me luck.
My plan right now is to - hopefully - recover after 6 months, and then start minoxidil again at much lower dose, i.e., 0.5 ml once a day, and observe whether I get sides again.
@odalbak: Well, because I still have them unfortunately. They are the reason why I came to these forums in the first place, as I'm looking for alternatives to minoxidil. minoxidil did a great job for me in terms of regrowth and maintaining, but the sides are unbearable. I look way older than I am, and before minoxidil I looked younger than I am. I guess the intensity of side effects and the level of success are linked. I regrew quite some hair in the temples were there hadnt been any for years.
@darwin101: At least where I live you can get in on Amazon. Should not be hard to get, though I have no idea about "sufficient" concentration. About combining minoxidil and retin-a I have no idea. Retin-A will however peel your skin, and thus the alcohol of the minoxidil solution will probably hurt like a mofo before the upper skin layers have recovered from the retin-A.
It probably does not happen to everybody, but to me it definitely happened. I'm off it for two months now. The wrinkles have vanished to some degree but far from completely. I really hope they will. The dark under eye circles are still 100% there, and I never had any before minoxidil. Some other people experiencing the same sides that I talked to said that they were back to normal after 6 months; others I talked to said they never recovered... wish me luck.
My plan right now is to - hopefully - recover after 6 months, and then start minoxidil again at much lower dose, i.e., 0.5 ml once a day, and observe whether I get sides again.
@odalbak: Well, because I still have them unfortunately. They are the reason why I came to these forums in the first place, as I'm looking for alternatives to minoxidil. minoxidil did a great job for me in terms of regrowth and maintaining, but the sides are unbearable. I look way older than I am, and before minoxidil I looked younger than I am. I guess the intensity of side effects and the level of success are linked. I regrew quite some hair in the temples were there hadnt been any for years.
@darwin101: At least where I live you can get in on Amazon. Should not be hard to get, though I have no idea about "sufficient" concentration. About combining minoxidil and retin-a I have no idea. Retin-A will however peel your skin, and thus the alcohol of the minoxidil solution will probably hurt like a mofo before the upper skin layers have recovered from the retin-A.
ganonford
Established Member
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Well, minoxidil has been noted to affect collagen production in-vitro, but I don't think this "side effect" has ever been studied in-vivo. It may be true, it may be false, who knows?, I, for one, have been on minoxidil for 2 ages and my face looks nice, I have not had any problem with my skin, nor any of my useless cousins either.
But I do think this is a real side effect, but it must be a very rare one. It could be just like finasteride, most people can take it everyday, while I ended up with gyno after using it for just a couple of month just once a week!
But I do think this is a real side effect, but it must be a very rare one. It could be just like finasteride, most people can take it everyday, while I ended up with gyno after using it for just a couple of month just once a week!
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I just want to clear something out of the way.
1. I use minoxidil religiously and recommend it every where including here and TBT forums.
2. I did not know that minoxidil has ever been accused of aging the skin, until it happened to me on two occasions and then I researched the internet and saw many other people with the same problem.
3. I'm neither a fearmongerer or will be scared away from minoxidil despite it actually aging my skin where I apply it. I use both finasteride and dutasteride, so please do not group me in with the anti-FDA drug clan. I'm far from that.
I went on minoxidil last year- got senile spots at 23 years old on the spots I apply it - went off it - the senile spots went away - now i'm back on it at 24 years old, senile spots came back. I am actually looking to battle this with Retin-A since it is proven to be effective against anti-aging, and Emu-Oil. The senile spots are not noticeable, it is mild, I can only see it when I take a picture with flash. Fortunately they are right on the corner of my temples, coincidentally where I overdose on minoxidil.
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BTW, minoxidil will not age your face. That is not where you should be looking to tell if it's aging your skin. It's where you apply it. Unless you apply it right on your face, you shouldn't be worrying about that. Also, another thing to consider is dosage. I use 2-3ml twice a day, for a total of 4-6ml a day, that is overdosage. So if you are overdosing like me, you might get these side effects on your head. For about 2 weeks now I have been using only 2ml a day, the recommended amount, to see if the spots go away.
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No, retin-a should not be used to fight male pattern baldness by itself. You could use it after applying minoxidil, after the minoxidil dries up.
1. I use minoxidil religiously and recommend it every where including here and TBT forums.
2. I did not know that minoxidil has ever been accused of aging the skin, until it happened to me on two occasions and then I researched the internet and saw many other people with the same problem.
3. I'm neither a fearmongerer or will be scared away from minoxidil despite it actually aging my skin where I apply it. I use both finasteride and dutasteride, so please do not group me in with the anti-FDA drug clan. I'm far from that.
I went on minoxidil last year- got senile spots at 23 years old on the spots I apply it - went off it - the senile spots went away - now i'm back on it at 24 years old, senile spots came back. I am actually looking to battle this with Retin-A since it is proven to be effective against anti-aging, and Emu-Oil. The senile spots are not noticeable, it is mild, I can only see it when I take a picture with flash. Fortunately they are right on the corner of my temples, coincidentally where I overdose on minoxidil.
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BTW, minoxidil will not age your face. That is not where you should be looking to tell if it's aging your skin. It's where you apply it. Unless you apply it right on your face, you shouldn't be worrying about that. Also, another thing to consider is dosage. I use 2-3ml twice a day, for a total of 4-6ml a day, that is overdosage. So if you are overdosing like me, you might get these side effects on your head. For about 2 weeks now I have been using only 2ml a day, the recommended amount, to see if the spots go away.
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No, retin-a should not be used to fight male pattern baldness by itself. You could use it after applying minoxidil, after the minoxidil dries up.
squeegee
Banned
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I think that if you want results, you need to put the efforts and pain into it. There is a lot of numb creams sold everywhere if you don't want the pain. Ball rolling won't do anything radical. Probably would help a bit with circulation and such but won't put your body in "reconstruction mode". Think of derma rolling as a reset button. Get the real deal and join the rollin movement! Softer alternative won't do ****. I don't remember seeing people with enormous success with the mag-gro LOL
[video=youtube;7a97SHIa-f8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a97SHIa-f8[/video]
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Good info on derma-rolling..
http://www.mtsroller.com/faqs/
squeegee
Banned
- Reaction score
- 132
What about reinforcing the current follicles? Don't forget that subcutaneous fat plays a major role in hair growth which is beneath in the dermis. The blood vessels that nourish the skin run deep in this layer.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ure!-amp-then-some?highlight=subcutaneous+fat
Guys, seriously, regarding minoxidil. I have done photo documentation and have before/after photos for comparison. I am 23 years now and currently have more wrinkles than many 35 year olds. I got huge under eye circles within the course of one year, and all of this happened only after starting minoxidil. If you don't have those sides, be happy, but don't play them down. Just like with propecia, most patients never experienced them. I did, and I found a couple of dozens of reports on the net, including photos, that show the same symptoms as me. If you're interested in the details, check out my first thread on these forums.
There is also a scientific study where a patient overdosed on minoxidil. Guess what happened to him: face skin got saggy, all facial features coarsened. This photo is from that study. And this is the study's abstract:
Anyway, just ordered my dermaroller, due to arrive on September 1st. Guess I'll be the "no topical" test group then. Let's see if rolling alone can achieve something.
There is also a scientific study where a patient overdosed on minoxidil. Guess what happened to him: face skin got saggy, all facial features coarsened. This photo is from that study. And this is the study's abstract:
As you can see, the side effect is confirmed.
Anyway, just ordered my dermaroller, due to arrive on September 1st. Guess I'll be the "no topical" test group then. Let's see if rolling alone can achieve something.
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I didn't even realize that members of a hair loss forum, who are supposed to be well-informed, shut down minoxidil's side effects of skin aging and dark circles. Every time I get on minoxidil, after about 3 months the skin where I apply it starts aging, and I get dark circles 2 months in.
BTW the man in that picture looks of old age to begin with. It doesn't even show a before pic to see where that man was before treatment.
BTW the man in that picture looks of old age to begin with. It doesn't even show a before pic to see where that man was before treatment.
Chromeo
Established Member
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Who gives a sh*t about dark circles under your eyes? Would you rather have hair on your head or not? FredTheBelgian made me laugh with his "I'm 23 but I look 43... because I'm a ****ing NW5, coincidence?" comment, that was spot-on. What kind of idiot would rather have no hair on his head if it meant dark circles under their eyes? Some of you people are f*cking ridiculous, man.
NOTHING will make you look older than having a bald-a** head. Period. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves.
NOTHING will make you look older than having a bald-a** head. Period. Some of you guys need to get over yourselves.
squeegee
Banned
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:salut: Well said!
Chromeo
Established Member
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Thanks, Squeeg. Agree with all of your posts, I think it's great that you are pushing the envelope on this thing. Keep us updated on how it's going, best of luck to you, bro.
We can beat this thing, man.
Jlyncher
Established Member
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The "man" in that picture was 17 years old! :shock:
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Truth.
Oh, and the only way you'll look 20 years older is if you've got skin thats as wrinkly as your balls. I wish these accusations and efforts against Minoxidil were put to good use... like demanding a public release of a treatment form Aderans/Replicel/Histogen SOON instead of waiting so forever. Or how about Dr. Roland Lauster... dude's already proven he can grow hair... but I don't see any of you working towards that becoming an available treatment TODAY. So yeah... lets go on and on and on about minoxidil this and forget about the stuff that could reverse our condition in ONE SHOT.
squeegee
Banned
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What up with all the drama gaynest with Minoxidil? There is a lot of alternative to Minoxidil.. Miconazole Nitrate 4%, Copper peptides or some Spectral DNC products. Focus on the important part which is the derma-rollin itself. Topical is just a recovery/speed-up growing factor but the difference maker is the wounding. Yes, I have a puffy face with minoxidil or dark circles.. big ****ing deal.. I tried **** way stronger than Minoxidil like topical nitroglycerin..that **** will turn you into a zombie/dracula for days.. Stop being yapping little b****s, keep an open mind and shut the **** up about the side effects of minoxidil. Results comes with action not bitching... Get a derma roller, roll it hard and deep and stay consistent. Monitor your pumpkin, be patient .Once you start seeing results, motivation will kick in and the rest would be history. The study is just a baseline. Nothing stopping you to customize it.. I feel like I am surrounded by a bunch of pussies that never been over 70 in a 70 MPH zone LOL wtf? :gay:
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I think its safe to say that most people would be willing to risk these temporary side effects (dark circles etc), if it meant permanent hair growth.
I'm even risking minoxidil first and then demarolling immediately after. But its a 0.5mm so there no bleeding.... No sides but then again, I've been using minoxidil for years
I'm even risking minoxidil first and then demarolling immediately after. But its a 0.5mm so there no bleeding.... No sides but then again, I've been using minoxidil for years
I really don't understand why everybody's hating so much on pointing out side effects of minoxidil that have been confirmed, though not expressed in most users. I was told by a superior to call in sick cause I "look tired and should get a good night's rest", even though I sleep about 9 hours per night. I was told by friends I was looking like a geezer with a drug problem. Basically, the day I went off minoxidil I looked not unlike this, actually even worse cause of dark circles and wrinkles. Why does everybody seem to take this personal? If you don't have side effects, just be happy about it, but don't go all aggressive and call it BS. Being 23 but having the face of a 35 year old is not an option for me. That does not only make you look older, but also completely unhealthy.
Anyway. As always I'll do photo documentation of treatment, in this case the derma rolling w/o topicals or finasteride, starting Sept 1st. Also, it would be helpful for treatment evaluation if every roller around here could post something like the following:
Roller product name:
Needle length:
Rolling since:
Rolling frequency: once every x [days/weeks]
Regimen (esp. topicals):
(Additional) regrowth noticed since:
Regrowth description: [hair thickened, temple receding reversed, etc.]
Anyway. As always I'll do photo documentation of treatment, in this case the derma rolling w/o topicals or finasteride, starting Sept 1st. Also, it would be helpful for treatment evaluation if every roller around here could post something like the following:
Roller product name:
Needle length:
Rolling since:
Rolling frequency: once every x [days/weeks]
Regimen (esp. topicals):
(Additional) regrowth noticed since:
Regrowth description: [hair thickened, temple receding reversed, etc.]
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