New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Sparky4444]

Cool but on the other hand castor oil like many vegetable oils may be anti-inflammatory… I've started applying castor oil but only like after the 4th day after wounding, along minoxidil and nizoral. I really want to give as much chance to the process as possible.

I'm beginning to think there is just no way around the pain factor...hell, maybe the pain experience is part of the process?? who knows....

 

[bibz]

The best way to roll if you have medium lenght hair(as me, im a NW1.5), YOU NEED to wash your hair with a shampoo wich not dry you hair BEFORE otherwise your rolling session will be a nightmare, pulling out hairs from ur head as i did(like 20-30 hairs each hairline session).
My advice for all nw1.5 or 2, dont waste your time with rolling or only in the little BALD areas in your temples!

 

[theRA]

The best way to roll if you have medium lenght hair(as me, im a NW1.5), YOU NEED to wash your hair with a shampoo wich not dry you hair BEFORE otherwise your rolling session will be a nightmare, pulling out hairs from ur head as i did(like 20-30 hairs each hairline session).
My advice for all nw1.5 or 2, dont waste your time with rolling or only in the little BALD areas in your temples!

not true, all you need is the 192 needle roller, tried it, works great, no pulled hair

 

[Jlyncher]

not true, all you need is the 192 needle roller, tried it, works great, no pulled hair

Agreed. And wetting your hair does work, just get the hair lying down flat, and presto zero​ pulled hair or tangles. It's not rocket science fellas.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Proff X here: I had a question guys i started derma rolling with a 1.0mm maybe 3 weeks now after 24 hours apply minoxidil twice a day..is there an alternative to minoxidil? Ive heard it causes wrinkles and dark circles and no lie im starting to get paranoid i want hair but i wont wanna look like an old man with hair ya feel me? With that said i have felt my hair a bit thicker and more coverage still to early to tell any sugestions? I wont stop derma rolling if anything will get a 1.5mm but is there a substitute for minoxidil or what is your guys opinion?

 

[badgenetics1]

There are some minoxidil substitutes - a few of them are mentioned in prior pages of this thread. However, if you haven't experienced sides I would continue with minoxidil. The wrinkles occur in a very small minority of minoxidil users, and as long as you stop it as soon as you notice that side, it is reversible. The best way to avoid sides is to not apply minoxidil right before going to bed - give it some time to absorb and dry.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Ah ok il keep that in mind. And why does it produce sides if applied after bed? Just wondering...also is there something else that can be done to counter act these potential sides? Do you know any substitutes at the top fo your head this thread is huge xD thanks

 

[badgenetics1]

If you apply minoxidil before bed and it hasn't dried yet, some will end up on your pillow and if you shift during the night it could get on your face. Off the top of my head, I can think of Vitamin B12. I tried including that with minoxidil but the liquid B12 was orange and staining my scalp.

 

[Youcandoit]

What does anyone think of inserting acupuncture needles for full blood flow in scalp for 20 min a day? I'm new here by the way and started poking my scalp with needles a week ago, now my dermaroller came in so I will be using that once a week.

i believe dermarolling and the bodies natural ability to heal itself is the key, not only is dermarolling help rebuild your scalp to original form but it also causes your blood flow and whatever nutrients you take in to go to where it's needed the most.

 

[CharlesXavier]

What does anyone think of inserting acupuncture needles for full blood flow in scalp for 20 min a day? I'm new here by the way and started poking my scalp with needles a week ago, now my dermaroller came in so I will be using that once a week.

i believe dermarolling and the bodies natural ability to heal itself is the key, not only is dermarolling help rebuild your scalp to original form but it also causes your blood flow and whatever nutrients you take in to go to where it's needed the most.

Well i would assume dermarolling is doing just that i dont know how acupucture would do anything differently seems a bit excessive? On that note i remember reading a study that dermarolling in fact does create new vascularity to those areas once depleted or low on blood flow. It seems the rushing of blood onto these areas created by needling is what causes this

 

[benjt]

So I guess years and years of evidence that dht is the main culprit behind Androgenetic Alopecia is completely wrong. This is broscience at its finest! Please tell me more about imagination land.

I have explained time and again that DHT is not the culprit, but the trigger. Apart from that, the cause of action seems to be as follows:
High local DHT -> upregulated PGD2 (probably there because of regular hair cycling, but much overexpressed) -> same symptoms as chronic inflammation -> fibrotic tissue generation -> damage to hair follicles

DHT is the trigger that later on leads to the generation of fibrotic tissue. The fibrotic tissue is what effectively damages and impairs the hair follicles. You can stop hair loss by stopping fibrotic tissue production (e.g. through minoxidil, which blocks collagen synthesis, and thus also fibrotic collagen synthesis), or by acting further upstream and addressing DHT. The problem is that DHT still is not the root cause, as has been shown by various studies where patches of hair of people not affected by Androgenetic Alopecia were administered with high doses of DHT, without hair loss being the result. The one thing, ladies and gentlemen, which sits above the DHT, that is the holy grail of hair loss. And it has not been found yet.

@odalbak: admittedly, I haven't. While pure B12 will probably be bioactive (but I'm getting plenty of that via diet anyway), I kind of doubt that castor oil will be. Just the presence of a substance does not mean it can or will be used by the body. One of the reasons why you can't absorb steaks via your skin ok, that was a bad example.

I understand you have your own beliefs, which I completely respect by the way.

I don't know about you, but I try to keep beliefs out of this.

But to say that the Galea theory is bull**** because you haven't seen any evidence is completely wrong. First of all there are 2 well established/respected studies that support the Galea theory and show better results than any studies I've seen ever.

Then provide links to these studies please.

secondly, even if the Detumescence therapy study isn't real (which I think it probably is) it 1: working for virtually everybody that tries it 2: it confirms the validity in the Galea theory. There's a number in the study.... Care to call it?

I contacted the author via email, but to no avail. In the thread about the detumescence therapy I also explained which points about it are great (e.g., the model which finally manages to explain the pattern in which hair loss occurs) and which suck (e.g., any proper evaluative data).

BTW: I'm pretty fibrotic tissue doesn't come back within a days time (or even less) and tighten your scalp back up by decreasing ROM. We aren't talking trigger points here man.... Fibrotic tissue doesn't disappear then after a while "magically" reappear again out of nowhere. If you don't know what I mean you can try dropping the manual massage for a day- a couple days (this can vary due to stress levels) & see how fast your scalp will tighten back up on you again...

To be honest, I don't know what you're talking about. Nobody ever assumed that fibrotic tissue will magically reappear. The problem is, though, that massages also don't completely destroy it, but probably only rip apart strands which just need to reconnect. If massages could destroy fibrotic tissue for good, we would basically be cured.

 

[Nickel]

Have you considered rolling, and using castor oil + B12 + other topical stuff, before giving up with dermarolling? I know it's painful but the massage road is a long road with nothing clear at the end…

About the topical, how do you use B12 and castor oil
What dosage and in which way?
Tnx!

 

[buddyebsen1]

Try a dermastamp. No problem with pulling out hair.

 

[odalbak]

About the topical, how do you use B12 and castor oil
What dosage and in which way?Tnx!

I'm not using B12.

Castor oil is very dense and sticky. If i applied it directly I would remove lots of my small hairs. It's meant to be mixed with a more liquid oil. At least 5 times more volume of that other oil. I use grape seed oil as it's very liquid and not really expensive. I apply the mix as one would paste jam on a pumpkin. I have not idea about dosage really. I haven't found a way to apply castor oil without mixing it with another oil. Maybe someone has a better idea.

 

[brunobald]

So I guess years and years of evidence that dht is the main culprit behind Androgenetic Alopecia is completely wrong. This is broscience at its finest! Please tell me more about imagination land.

Sure I can do science me. DHT is part of the chain, no DHT no hairloss but fibrosis is the actual physical damage done to the follicule.

 

[Jlyncher]

I have explained time and again that DHT is not the culprit, but the trigger. Apart from that, the cause of action seems to be as follows:
High local DHT -> upregulated PGD2 (probably there because of regular hair cycling, but much overexpressed) -> same symptoms as chronic inflammation -> fibrotic tissue generation -> damage to hair follicles

DHT is the trigger that later on leads to the generation of fibrotic tissue. The fibrotic tissue is what effectively damages and impairs the hair follicles. You can stop hair loss by stopping fibrotic tissue production (e.g. through minoxidil, which blocks collagen synthesis, and thus also fibrotic collagen synthesis), or by acting further upstream and addressing DHT. The problem is that DHT still is not the root cause, as has been shown by various studies where patches of hair of people not affected by Androgenetic Alopecia were administered with high doses of DHT, without hair loss being the result. The one thing, ladies and gentlemen, which sits above the DHT, that is the holy grail of hair loss. And it has not been found yet.

Great explanation Benjt. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Kirby]

Someone suggested wetting your hair and combing it 'flat' prior to rolling.

I have not tried this myself (I'm buzzed), but sounds like it could work.

Works for me.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Anyone has an update on their derma treatment? Also does derma rolling help prevent the effects of the hardening of the scalp from collagen or fibrosis?

 

[odalbak]

Problem is we don't know what causes high dht levels in the scalp for a start. If one refers to benjt's graph the very first causal reasons of high dht would be …bad diet and ejaculation. Hmm… Yes I know benjt never pretended his graphic was complete and solid. But it's pretty obvious there's something missing in the whole picture. The other explanation is a higher genetic sensitivity of our follicles to dht which causes an immune response and the rest of the chain. But why is this genetic difference only on the galea region then? Why are my sides full of millions of thick beautiful healthy hair?!!!

Anyone has an update on their derma treatment? Also does derma rolling help prevent the effects of the hardening of the scalp from collagen or fibrosis?

It's supposed to break down fibrotic collagen everywhere the needles penetrate it.

 

[squeegee]

Agreed. And wetting your hair does work, just get the hair lying down flat, and presto zero​ pulled hair or tangles. It's not rocket science fellas.

:salut:

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Problem is we don't know what causes high dht levels in the scalp for a start. If one refers to benjt's graph the very first causal reasons of high dht would be …bad diet and ejaculation. Hmm… Yes I know benjt never pretended his graphic was complete and solid. But it's pretty obvious there's something missing in the whole picture. The other explanation is a higher genetic sensitivity of our follicles to dht which causes an immune response and the rest of the chain. But why is this genetic difference only on the galea region then? Why are my sides full of millions of thick beautiful healthy hair?!!!

I will go with overly expressed androgen receptors or cytochome p450 mutation in the skin causing steroidogenenesis to be overactive. Too much cholestrol in the skin are converted to androgen. yes, the skin has his own endocrine system.

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Works for me.

http://www.pegym.com/articles/erection-tea-how-to-make-it-and-what-it-does

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Sure I can do science me. DHT is part of the chain, no DHT no hairloss but fibrosis is the actual physical damage done to the follicule.

[video=youtube;lEOOZDbMrgE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEOOZDbMrgE[/video]

Scotland! The problem is fibrosis and collagen built up strangling the follicle from their progenitor cells migration. It is essential for proper hair growth cycle.