New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[rerun]

Someone suggested wetting your hair and combing it 'flat' prior to rolling.

I have not tried this myself (I'm buzzed), but sounds like it could work.

Agreed. And wetting your hair does work, just get the hair lying down flat, and presto zero​ pulled hair or tangles. It's not rocket science fellas.

not true, all you need is the 192 needle roller, tried it, works great, no pulled hair

Not everybody go through a shed. Derma roller is a game changer if you're stubborn/optimist and consistent.

Thanks squeegee!



Dermarolling has caused some people to shed. I didn't shed, at least not that I'm aware of. That said, I don't really pay attention to hair falling out - I just take a picture of my hair every two weeks or so and try not to be impacted by daily changes.

Thanks for all the responses and tips!

 

[cthulhu2.0]

This definitely adds some perspective:
'Effects of topical application of growth factors followed by
microneedle therapy in women with female pattern hair loss:
A pilot study'
http://www.haargroeispecialist.nl/r...th-female-pattern-hair-loss-A-pilot-study.pdf

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What we now know for sure is dermarolling by itself doesn't do ****! end of story

 

[theRA]

The problem is that DHT still is not the root cause, as has been shown by various studies where patches of hair of people not affected by Androgenetic Alopecia were administered with high doses of DHT, without hair loss being the result. The one thing, ladies and gentlemen, which sits above the DHT, that is the holy grail of hair loss. And it has not been found yet.

that might pretty much be the geneticall information. Sadly, genetics is something you cannot alter... yet

 

[brunobald]

What we now know for sure is dermarolling by itself doesn't do ****! end of story

Not really, they used a 0.5mm needle not 1.5mm :smoke:

 

[odalbak]

I've decided to add the 540 0.5mm dermaroller to my 192 1.5mm 14day dermarolling schedule. I've just received it. I noticed minoxidil doesn't seem to be caught by the skin as before. My scalp has become slick and like brand new (and slightly darker because of wounding stains), and the drops of minoxidil roll or glide on my skin like water drops on glass. If i apply a few drops of minoxidil on my arm they get caught by the rougher and more absorbing texture of this skin. I think the newly built soft collagen on the surface of my scalp may reduce minoxidil absorption.

 

[Chipman222]

Just about to order a Dermaroller. My best bet is for a 1.5mm needle length and 192 needles, correct? Also, what should I use to clean it?

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before, but I haven't read through the whole thread. Thanks.

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How long after you roll does your head take to heal? (i.e. no visible marks)

I don't want to walk around looking like pinhead all the time

 

[albert]

How long after you roll does your head take to heal? (i.e. no visible marks)

I don't want to walk around looking like pinhead all the time

It depends of the person and the amount of hair you have. In my personal case, I roll on Saturday afternoon. My scalp is still noticeable red on Sunday and during Monday the redness is almost gone (i.e. I do normal life, go to work, etc).

 

[Jlyncher]

Just about to order a Dermaroller. My best bet is for a 1.5mm needle length and 192 needles, correct? Also, what should I use to clean it?

Yes/ rubbing alcohol before and after use has worked just fine for me, going on 14 weeks

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How long after you roll does your head take to heal? (i.e. no visible marks)

I don't want to walk around looking like pinhead all the time

I wash off the blood spots in the shower the next day, minor redness.

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Couple new pics on BTT.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Interesting postDoes this mean that to reactivate these follicles or start them up we need to use a derma roller that is deep enough? 1.5 or more? Any thoughts?

 

[cthulhu2.0]

Interesting postDoes this mean that to reactivate these follicles or start them up we need to use a derma roller that is deep enough? 1.5 or more? Any thoughts?

I'm not sure, after an initial skim I thought they used a 1.5mm. It appears that they just used the .5mm for skin absorption. It does provide evidence that topically applied growth factors are effective however. I would imagine using a 1.5mm would have been even more effective in the study. I think it may be worth our time to start applying igf sources as this is another study that confirms topical igf-1 and hairloss. Note the following studies:

Clin Exp Dermatol. 2012 Dec;37(8):909-12. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2230.2012.04441.x. Epub 2012 Aug 27.
[h=1]Safety and efficacy analysis of liposomal insulin-like growth factor-1 in a fluid gel formulation for hair-loss treatment in a hamster model.[/h]Castro RF, Azzalis LA, Feder D, Perazzo FF, Pereira EC, Junqueira VB, Rocha KC, Machado CD, Paschoal FC, Gnann LA, Fonseca FL.
[h=3]Source[/h]Discipline of Dermatology, Department of Clinical Medicine, Faculty of Medicine ABC, Santo André, SP, Brazil.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 has shown some interesting results in studies examining its use as a hair-loss treatment. IGF-1 works by regulating cellular proliferation and migration during the development of hair follicles. Hepatotoxicity and myelotoxicity were evaluated in hamsters (Mesocricetus auratus) after topical application of the liquid gel vehicle (placebo), 1% IGF-1 or 3% IGF-1. No significant difference in the levels of aspartate aminotransferase or alanine aminotransferase was found between the control and treated groups. ELISA did not shown any increase in the plasma level of IGF-1. A haematopoietic niche was found, but it was not associated with myelotoxicity. Efficacy was determined by dermatoscopy analysis of hair density and microscopy analysis of hair diameter, with hair found to be thicker and with more rapid growth in the 3% group than in either the 1% group or the control group. These results strongly suggest that liposomal IGF-1 in a liquid gel formulation is a safe and efficient treatment for hair loss.


[h=1]Effect of topical application of raspberry ketone on dermal production of insulin-like growth factor-I in mice and on hair growth and skin elasticity in humans.[/h]Harada N, Okajima K, Narimatsu N, Kurihara H, Nakagata N.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Translational Medical Science Research, Nagoya City University Graduate School of Medical Sciences, Kawasumi 1, Mizuho-cho, Mizuho-ku, Nagoya 467-8601, Japan.



[h=3]Abstract[/h]Sensory neurons release calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) on activation. We recently reported that topical application of capsaicin increases facial skin elasticity and promotes hair growth by increasing dermal insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) production through activation of sensory neurons in mice and humans. Raspberry ketone (RK), a major aromatic compound contained in red raspberries (Rubus idaeus), has a structure similar to that of capsaicin. Thus, it is possible that RK activates sensory neurons, thereby increasing skin elasticity and promoting hairgrowth by increasing dermal IGF-I production. In the present study, we examined this possibility in mice and humans. RK, at concentrations higher than 1 microM, significantly increased CGRP release from dorsal root ganglion neurons (DRG) isolated from wild-type (WT) mice and this increase was completely reversed by capsazepine, an inhibitor of vanilloid receptor-1 activation. Topical application of 0.01% RK increased dermal IGF-I levels at 30 min after application in WT mice, but not in CGRP-knockout mice. Topical application of 0.01% RK increased immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I at dermal papillae in hair follicles and promoted hair re-growth in WT mice at 4 weeks after the application. When applied topically to the scalp and facial skin, 0.01% RK promoted hair growth in 50.0% of humans with alopecia (n=10) at 5 months after application and increased cheek skin elasticity at 2 weeks after application in 5 females (p<0.04). These observations strongly suggest that RK might increase dermal IGF-I production through sensory neuron activation, thereby promoting hair growth and increasing skin elasticity.

 

[Nicholas89]

What do you think about using anti-inflammatory drugs like saba gel or emu oil (of course topically) while using dermaroller? Does it have any sense? Because On the one hand we dermaroll to induce inflammatory reaction (activation of growth factors) and on the other we use anti-inflammatory drugs so we inhibit that. Anybody using saba or emu while dermarolling (of course not on the same day, but few days after using dermaroller)? I’m sure that somebody brought up that subject earlier but there is so many pages so I can’t find it. If anyone remember page, on which that was discussed please tell.
Sorry for my English It's not my native language.

 

[Nicholas89]

What do you think about using anti-inflammatory drugs like saba gel or emu oil (of course topically) while using dermaroller. Does it have any sense? Because On the one hand we dermaroll to induce inflammatory reaction (activation of growth factors) and on the other we use anti-inflammatory drugs so we inhibit that. Anybody using saba or emu while dermarolling (of course not on the same day, but few days after using dermaroller)? I’m sure that somebody brought up that subject earlier but there is so many pages so I can’t find it. If anyone remember page, on which that was discussed please tell. Sorry for my English It's not my native language

 

[Sparky4444]

Not really, they used a 0.5mm needle not 1.5mm :smoke:

Been using 1.5mm and basically no topical in any regularity...At the very least it may be keeping some vellus hairs alive that were just RECENTLY terminal hairs that bailed on me...but very, very fine and few ...

...need the topical...need the dermaroller...and I think we need one more ingredient and these little buggers would start sprouting up even better

 

[Jlyncher]

Interesting, I found this as well regarding IGF-1;

IGF-1 and Hair growth

Growth Hormone administration via injection, has among other anabolic anti-aging effects, the remarkable and reliable stimulation of scalp hair growth in areas affected by Androgenetic Alopecia. The mechanism underlying this effect has never been elucidated, perhaps until now.
Growth Hormone increases levels of Insulin Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1). In prior studies it has been shown that the oral combination of Soy Isoflavones Extract and Capsaicin, in the form of Cayenne Pepper, stimulated hair growth in 90% of both men and women with both hormone driven and autoimmune hair loss. The author found this effect in rats as well, and also discovered that this particular combination dramatically increased levels of IGF- 1 in the dermal papillae.
A study summation with photos is here:
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdatePCOS2April2011.htm







Another study found that the FDA approved hair loss treatment finasteride, (Propecia, Proscar) also increases IGF-1 in the follicular dermal papillae, in those that have a positive hair growth response to the drug.
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdateTherapeuticTargetforHairgrowth7-11.html
This recently published study lends credence to the prior studies on hair growth stimulation and cutaneous IGF-1, by conclusively demonstrating that Dihydrotestosterone, (DHT) inhibits hair growth by inhibiting IGF-1 production in dermal papillae.

 

[CharlesXavier]

Does minoxidil count as this? Or should that be kept? Any alternative? What would be your method and why?

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How does scratching ones head induce new hairgrowth or help stop it im ignorant on the subject

 

[cthulhu2.0]

Interesting, I found this as well regarding IGF-1;

IGF-1 and Hair growth

Growth Hormone administration via injection, has among other anabolic anti-aging effects, the remarkable and reliable stimulation of scalp hair growth in areas affected by Androgenetic Alopecia. The mechanism underlying this effect has never been elucidated, perhaps until now.
Growth Hormone increases levels of Insulin Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1). In prior studies it has been shown that the oral combination of Soy Isoflavones Extract and Capsaicin, in the form of Cayenne Pepper, stimulated hair growth in 90% of both men and women with both hormone driven and autoimmune hair loss. The author found this effect in rats as well, and also discovered that this particular combination dramatically increased levels of IGF- 1 in the dermal papillae.
A study summation with photos is here:
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdatePCOS2April2011.htm







Another study found that the FDA approved hair loss treatment finasteride, (Propecia, Proscar) also increases IGF-1 in the follicular dermal papillae, in those that have a positive hair growth response to the drug.
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdateTherapeuticTargetforHairgrowth7-11.html
This recently published study lends credence to the prior studies on hair growth stimulation and cutaneous IGF-1, by conclusively demonstrating that Dihydrotestosterone, (DHT) inhibits hair growth by inhibiting IGF-1 production in dermal papillae.

I currently take soy isoflavones. There is also another study which had male participants who took isoflavones and dht was reduced by 10-15 percent following a month of supplementation.

 

[Mr. Moe]

I'm confused as to why some people say that they are rolling until they bleed??? The report says that they only rolled until mild erythema. Erythema is just when the skin turns red. So mild erythema means roll until the skin is mildly red. Not until it is bloody. If you see blood, you might be damaging your scalp.

Also, a dermatologist will numb your skin before doing any kind of needling. All the people complaining about the pain should either look into a numbing spray (the kind they use for tattoos) or stop rolling so hard.

I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to (just ordered a derma roller).

 

[closetmetrosexual]

Interesting, I found this as well regarding IGF-1;

IGF-1 and Hair growth

Growth Hormone administration via injection, has among other anabolic anti-aging effects, the remarkable and reliable stimulation of scalp hair growth in areas affected by Androgenetic Alopecia. The mechanism underlying this effect has never been elucidated, perhaps until now.
Growth Hormone increases levels of Insulin Growth Factor 1 (IGF-1). In prior studies it has been shown that the oral combination of Soy Isoflavones Extract and Capsaicin, in the form of Cayenne Pepper, stimulated hair growth in 90% of both men and women with both hormone driven and autoimmune hair loss. The author found this effect in rats as well, and also discovered that this particular combination dramatically increased levels of IGF- 1 in the dermal papillae.
A study summation with photos is here:
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdatePCOS2April2011.htm







Another study found that the FDA approved hair loss treatment finasteride, (Propecia, Proscar) also increases IGF-1 in the follicular dermal papillae, in those that have a positive hair growth response to the drug.
http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUpdateTherapeuticTargetforHairgrowth7-11.html
This recently published study lends credence to the prior studies on hair growth stimulation and cutaneous IGF-1, by conclusively demonstrating that Dihydrotestosterone, (DHT) inhibits hair growth by inhibiting IGF-1 production in dermal papillae.

Funny you should post this.
As from today, I plan on introducing colostrum into my scalp care.
Colostrum contains lots of IGF-1.
(also will take it orally. So can't be sure if the topical worked - in case it will turn out to work)

 

[Mr. Moe]

Ouch, I might have just wasted money on a derma roller. I was doing some research and found this legitimate concern for using a derma roller & minoxidil:

Thank you addressing this question to our BLOG. Originally Minoxidil was a drug developed to fight high blood pressure. There are rumors and claims that patients used this drug also developed an increase of hair growth (???). Today this drug (Rogaine) is widely used to fight hair loss. Over the years the drug concentration was up-scaled from 1 to 5%. We cannot comment if this drug or others can improve hair growth or reverse hair loss. Personally we believe this rumors became a myth over the years.

We have been asked many times why we do not recommend the use of this drug in combination with the Dermaroller. We have good reasons for our refusal. Let me explain:

Not only would we fool you and million others if we would make such claims. The structure of the human skin prevents that drugs or cosmetics can penetrate the stratum corneum, the uppermost layer of the epidermis. We have absolute prove that not more then 0.01% of a hydrophilic (water and/or alcohol) formulated solution can be absorbed by the skin. The rest evaporates or goes into your pillow – an expensive experience. See: http://www.dermaroller.de/us/science/science.html

Naturally things look different when this blood pressure controlling drug is enhanced into the skin by a needling device. It immediately will enter into your blood stream and things can quickly get out of control and you definitely can get a problem, even a heart failure, especially then when you have a coronary deficiency (what many people do not know). If you enhance such a drug into your skin with the help of an enhancing device, this would be the same if you play with open fire near a leaking gas pipe!
If copiers of the original Dermaroller recommend a needling device in combination with such drugs against hair loss, they definitely lie and encourage you to risk your health.
Therefore our conclusion is clear: DON’T DO IT!!!

We can imagine that this statement doesn’t comfort you. But you definitely can enjoy life with some lost hair – even it is hard to except in the beginning. But the risk to suffer for the rest of your life is not worth it.
Sincerely yours,
The Dermaroller Team

http://dermaroller.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/hair-loss/#comments

 

[Jlyncher]

Does minoxidil count as this? Or should that be kept? Any alternative? What would be your method and why?

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How does scratching ones head induce new hairgrowth or help stop it im ignorant on the subject

minoxidil is a must with dermarolling unless your terribly allergic to it, in which case you should use it anyway, or...you could try the castor oil/b12 route. Head scratching is the caveman equivalent to dermarolling, disregard it.

I'm confused as to why some people say that they are rolling until they bleed??? The report says that they only rolled until mild erythema. Erythema is just when the skin turns red. So mild erythema means roll until the skin is mildly red. Not until it is bloody. If you see blood, you might be damaging your scalp.

Also, a dermatologist will numb your skin before doing any kind of needling. All the people complaining about the pain should either look into a numbing spray (the kind they use for tattoos) or stop rolling so hard.

I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to (just ordered a derma roller).

This was discussed a while back. One of the scientists involved with the study was emailed regarding the wording, and he admitted there was bleeding and that "erythema" was an understatement. If you're properly using a 1.5mm, you will bleed. Numbing agents have been tried, their possible effect on the inflammation process is still up in the air.

Funny you should post this.
As from today, I plan on introducing colostrum into my scalp care.
Colostrum contains lots of IGF-1.
(also will take it orally. So can't be sure if the topical worked - in case it will turn out to work)

Sounds like a solid addition, I'll be adding something to boost igf-1 methinks. Love the avatar by the way.