New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[squeegee]

I was not talking to you! And again putting **** ten times in your sentence does not help your argument! and i do not think anyone here is focusing all the energy and knowledge towards follica's patent, it is all being said in a CONTEXT....You do not ****ing own this forum so you GTFO... and i am not amazed that after 2574 posts here after all the "new" ideas you have "absorbed", you still have not found a solution...

hahahaha Oh man another loser.

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Lithium Chloride activates WNT pathway ---->>> FGF9----->>>> hair

Apparently Lithium Chloride was used in food in the 50s until some idiots started taking too much.... Anyway, this stuff is cheap and safe (from doing some google searches).... What if we DR and apply a solution of Lithium Chloride????!! Anyone see any problems with this?

Why lithium Chloride??

 

[mj9]

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Why lithium Chloride??

WNT/β-Catenin Pathway Activation In VivoThe WNT/β-catenin signaling pathway in lungs from C57BL/6N mice was activated via intraperitoneal injection of LiCl (200 mg/KG/BW/day) (11). LiCl mimics members of the WNT family of signaling proteins by inhibiting the activity of GSK-3β, causing intracellular accumulation of β-catenin, a feature associated with the canonical WNT/β-catenin signaling pathway (25). LiCl was diluted in sterile water and fresh stock was prepared for every injection. Mice were treated on a daily basis, from Day 0 (the day of elastase instillation) to Day 7 in the preventive regimen and from Days 7 to 14 in the therapeutic regimen.


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http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/...C#.Ulvh_NKnpXw

 

[squeegee]

WNT/β-Catenin Pathway Activation In VivoThe WNT/β-catenin signaling pathway in lungs from C57BL/6N mice was activated via intraperitoneal injection of LiCl (200 mg/KG/BW/day) (11). LiCl mimics members of the WNT family of signaling proteins by inhibiting the activity of GSK-3β, causing intracellular accumulation of β-catenin, a feature associated with the canonical WNT/β-catenin signaling pathway (25). LiCl was diluted in sterile water and fresh stock was prepared for every injection. Mice were treated on a daily basis, from Day 0 (the day of elastase instillation) to Day 7 in the preventive regimen and from Days 7 to 14 in the therapeutic regimen.


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http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/...C#.Ulvh_NKnpXw

Don't know about that.. the folks on the immortal forum did try it.. I haven't seen anything really successful.

 

[mj9]

Also can those who want to fight, start a separate thread and stop polluting this thread....

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Don't know about that.. the folks on the immortal forum did try it.. I haven't see anything really successful.

Can you post a link?

 

[brunobald]

@ mj9, lithium chloride is mentioned as a topical in a lot of follica patents.

 

[squeegee]

Also can those who want to fight, start a separate thread and stop polluting this thread....

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Can you post a link?

So many threads http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/search?search_keywords=lithium+chloride

 

[Breaking Bald]

I will continue rolling because I am having results from it.. I would be stupid to stop. What do you think?

Sure you may as well continue then, I guess I'll see how it goes before I decide on continuing or stopping. Nothing to report yet we just need to keep on...

[video=youtube;x9SJi8a_yeM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9SJi8a_yeM[/video]

 

[squeegee]

squeegeee///Go get cured for your verbal diarrhea and your mental impotence...and if some one is gonna abuse me, I am not going to shut up....i know some of you here are racists but that is not my problem..there is a reason why someone like squeegee is never asked "to stop polluting the thread"....

Bros.. thanks for your input. You are a solid member of this forum. Why don't you start a thread about How much you hate me? stop polluting this thread with your little hating words.. please.. please and thank you.

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Sure you may as well continue then, I guess I'll see how it goes before I decide on continuing or stopping. Nothing to report yet we just need to keep on...

[video=youtube;x9SJi8a_yeM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9SJi8a_yeM[/video]

ahhahahaah! awesome!!

 

[Jaded]

So people were wounding 2010
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/...ing-and-or-lithium?highlight=lithium+chloride

 

[squeegee]

So people were wounding 2010
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/...ing-and-or-lithium?highlight=lithium+chloride

People were derma rolling in the past.. it is well known.. but most were not rolling weekly for a long period of time.. or were using smaller size .25 0.50mm for better topical absorption..

 

[ganonford]

So people were wounding 2010
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/...ing-and-or-lithium?highlight=lithium+chloride

There are a lot of thread about wounding all over these forums. There are even some guys trying wounding+lithium. Even here in hair loss talk there is a thread about it. But for whatever reason it never got to anywhere. Some guys said it worked and then just dissapear or things like that.

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or were using smaller size .25 0.50mm for better topical absorption..

That's true, even 1 mm is unheard of in those thread from the past.

 

[mj9]

So many threads http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/search?search_keywords=lithium+chloride

****! It doesnt say anything about it not working. Furthermore, it seems they only used 0.5mm or less - they would need to go deeper than that......

I might give LiCl a shot with a 1.5mm DR


Rolling daily with LiCl might trigger FGF9 production and once that happens, the more you roll, the more hair!

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Does anyone have the full paper (including material and methods) of the costeralis study?

 

[odalbak]

This does not mean it's new hair growing from the needle puncture. The hair on squeegees pic is not new hair, it might be existing vellus hair that the needle happen to puncture at the exact same location, and they are growing from the growth factor released by WIHN, which is excellent news. But the fact is we have 100,000+ hair on our scalp, when you dermaroll you likely create tens of thousands of holes and you are doing this weekly, obviously some of those puncture holes will be on top of existing hair holes, this is simply the law of averages, sorry this isn't new hair induced by WIHN.. What you guys are concluding from these images is like throwing darts at a wall and then painting targets around them...

I tend to follow you on all things but on this one I don't. First, I can't imagine an existing vellus hair surviving the BBQ experience. Secondly, how come your vellus hair and its follicle are not structurally destroyed by the needle if it happens exactly on the same tiny spot where it is? Also you used to believe in hair neogenesis in the beginning of this thread, no?

 

[zombiehair]

This does not mean it's new hair growing from the needle puncture. The hair on squeegees pic is not new hair, it might be existing vellus hair that the needle happen to puncture at the exact same location, and they are growing from the growth factor released by WIHN, which is excellent news. But the fact is we have 100,000+ hair on our scalp, when you dermaroll you likely create tens of thousands of holes and you are doing this weekly, obviously some of those puncture holes will be on top of existing hair holes, this is simply the law of averages, sorry this isn't new hair induced by WIHN.. What you guys are concluding from these images is like throwing darts at a wall and then painting targets around them...

I wasn't making conclusions or painting targets I was more putting the question up for discussion.
Thanks for your answer ,as always your views are very welcome and appreciated.

 

[albert]

Ugh, my 7th session and shedding like a b****... this does not cheer me up

 

[squeegee]

Ugh, my 7th session and shedding like a b****... this does not cheer me up

welcome to the club!

 

[LayZ]

A study I haven't seen here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3160154/

Describes what actually happens to the skin when rolling. Links to other studies on right lower side of page.

No, the channels don't close up in a few hours like most think. Just the hydrolipid barrier reforms.
Closure time is wound depth and skin condition dependent.
Closure time is also dependent on occlusive factors.

No wound healing stuff, but still interesting.

 

[Jorged]

This does not mean it's new hair growing from the needle puncture. The hair on squeegees pic is not new hair, it might be existing vellus hair that the needle happen to puncture at the exact same location, and they are growing from the growth factor released by WIHN, which is excellent news. But the fact is we have 100,000+ hair on our scalp, when you dermaroll you likely create tens of thousands of holes and you are doing this weekly,obviously some of those puncture holes will be on top of existing hair holes, this is simply the law of averages, sorry this isn't new hair induced by WIHN.. What you guys are concluding from these images is like throwing darts at a wall and then painting targets around them...

I tend to follow you on all things but on this one I don't. First, I can't imagine an existing vellus hair surviving the BBQ experience. Secondly, how come your vellus hair and its follicle are not structurally destroyed by the needle if it happens exactly on the same tiny spot where it is? Also you used to believe in hair neogenesis in the beginning of this thread, no?

Ok, PrincessRambo thinks it's impossible that by dermarolling new hairs can be created by Neogenesis, and that this new hairs are most probably minitiaruzed hairs that are awakened by the delevery of growth factors (and others) post superficial wounding. But maybe it is just this reawakening that is necessary.

I mean, if bald scalp in men with androgenetic alopecia retains hair follicle stem cells but lacks hair follicle progenitor cells, and these findings support the notion that a defect in conversion of hair follicle stem cells to progenitor cells is playing a role in the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia. Could not be possible just to regenerate all your hair by making this conversion process work again properly? I mean if the stem cells are there, they don't dissapear, they don't go away (as it was thought not a long time ago), is it really necessary to create new hair follicle stem cells by neogenesis when the original ones are still there, just not working properly?

And could not be this defect in conversion of hair follicle stem cells to progenitor cells a consequence of fibrosis? Is out there any study that explains what is causing this defect in conversion anyway?

I mean, I am not a scientist and I don't understand half of the stuff you post about patents, studies... But can not be possible that we are maybe over thinking the meaning of the word neogenesis, and finally after all the shadiness, lack of updates... what follica does is basically just correct this defect in conversion by wounding the scalp and not by "neogenesis" at all? After all, the infamous BBQ guy didn't use any proprietary liquid or lotion to chain any kind of reaction, he burned his scalp, he rejected medical attention, and 4 months later his hair was back.

Probably all said above is stupid, so sorry. Uhmm I am so tired of all this, 8 years already waiting for an answer...

 

[princessRambo]

I tend to follow you on all things but on this one I don't. First, I can't imagine an existing vellus hair surviving the BBQ experience. Secondly, how come your vellus hair and its follicle are not structurally destroyed by the needle if it happens exactly on the same tiny spot where it is? Also you used to believe in hair neogenesis in the beginning of this thread, no?

Yes I used to think dermarolling alone was enough to induce this, after looking at the various follica experiment results and the complexity of neo genesis, I just don't think what we are seeing after all this time is de novo hair formation. I just replied to benjt in another thread about this. it is extremely unlikely that we are achieving neo genesis with dermarolling, cotsarelis specifically stated in their study that the process doesn't simply happen with the human healing model unless very well timed specific exogenous growth factors are introduced right around the scab detachment period. Existing invisible hair might grow terminal as a result of wounding, which has been documented in many cases of localized acquired hypertrichosis, but that's about what can be done in my humble opinion and that is not a bad thing at all. Even follicular streamers might slowly revert back to normal looking follicles as a result of wnt overexpression and growing a thicker hair shaft. When the process of neo genesis kicks in, it only takes 14 days after the initial wound for hair placodes to form. In fact in the cotsarelis study they noticed terminal hair from WIHN within a few month and a whole lot of them. If the same process was being done with a dermaroller we would all be cured after two months of rolling.

Some people will point to the barbecue guy, I will remind them that this is an un-studied documented case of a freak accident that likely burned everything including full epidermis, dermis and sub dermis. When things like that happen, it is not even about simple wound healing anymore, the body is in a completely different physiological state of survival, I have seen a documentary once on the science channel where this lady lost almost all her skin due to an accident and she was literally drenched into a liquid solution to prevent infection and hypothermia (because the protective skin barrier was gone). Weeks later she started growing full skin and hair, the doctors said they have never seen anything like that before and that she got the skin of a brand newborn, kind of a new lease on youth...

@jorged: most people don't even have dormant stem cells, I tend to think most have very tiny miniaturized hair shaft that is not quite visible to the naked eye. Even slick looking norwood 7 I suspect. When do follicles go completely dormant? I don't know, I doubt many of us here have this issue

 

[LayZ]

There are a lot of thread about wounding all over these forums. There are even some guys trying wounding+lithium. Even here in hair loss talk there is a thread about it. But for whatever reason it never got to anywhere. Some guys said it worked and then just dissapear or things like that.

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That's true, even 1 mm is unheard of in those thread from the past.

.75 rollers were being marketed around 8 years ago by some Australian company, making similar claims to the 1.5 roller Indian study.