READ READ READ.. Very Interesting POV

[Hoppi]

Why take accutane (which lowers your TOTAL oil production systemically as far as I know, hence why your body hates it so much!) when I mean like we were saying in the other thread there is a good chance increasing your Coenzyme A will allow your body to regulate and reduce it's sebum NATURALLY and healthily!

All you need to do is ensure your body has enough ATP, Cysteine and Vitamin B5 to create Coenzyme A inside itself, or just take Coenzyme A tablets

I've heard it works well so I'm going to make it part of my regimen

 

[moonbase]

I am trying to look at this logically:

Large Accutane dose= Hair Loss.
Large Accutane dose= Severe Reduction in sebum causing dry skin.

Low accutane dose= Reduction of oil production.
Low accutane dose= No Hair loss.

Which then equals:

Sebum= Required for hair growth

Now I will *assume* that the above is correct. (I make no stakes either way)

Sebum is a natural barrier to keep the hair and scalp moisturized. Without out it.. hair can become weak and the skin can become flakey, dry, and irritated which can cause the hair loss as stated above.

Sebum glands also produce Type 1 5-AR. So if you are effectively reducing the abnormal output (size), you also reduce Type 1 5-AR. This then reduces the conversion of Testosterone to DHT. Ultimately reaching the same goal of lowered DHT serum levels.

If anyone has anything to add or subtract from my claims please post!

 

[Bryan]

I am trying to look at this logically:

Large Accutane dose= Hair Loss.
Large Accutane dose= Severe Reduction in sebum causing dry skin.

Sebum has no significant effect on the moisture content of skin.

Low accutane dose= Reduction of oil production.
Low accutane dose= No Hair loss.

Which then equals:

Sebum= Required for hair growth

Now I will *assume* that the above is correct. (I make no stakes either way)

It's not correct.

Sebum is a natural barrier to keep the hair and scalp moisturized.

Nope.

 

[moonbase]

The function of sebum is a protective barrier. The environment will dry your skin out and sebum protects or in other word retains the moisture of the skin and hair. In my opinion that constitutes moisturizing, indirectly.
Reference: http://www.wellsphere.com/exercise-arti ... kin/387647

The effects of Accutane can cause dry irritated skin and hair loss. Shown in clinical trials.
Reference: http://www.drugwatch.com/accutane/side-effects.php

I would like constructive advice not blatant ignorance.

I am a long time acne sufferer with a wealth of knowledge on the pro's and con's of Accutane. I am not here to debunk just to get to the truth of the matter.

 

[dougfunny]

I bet if there was evidence to suggest cyanide could help hair loss half the people on this forum would take it.

 

[Bryan]

The function of sebum is a protective barrier. The environment will dry your skin out and sebum protects or in other word retains the moisture of the skin and hair. In my opinion that constitutes moisturizing, indirectly.
Reference: http://www.wellsphere.com/exercise-arti ... kin/387647

I strongly suggest that you get your medical information from doctors and scientists, not lay people who write articles for Web sites whose main purpose is probably just to sell you their own products for your hair and skin. Here is one such excerpt from a medical journal, and it's written by DOCTORS:

"Sebum Secretion and Sebaceous Lipids", Stewart et al, Dermatologic Clinics -- Vol. 1, No. 3, July 1983.

Sebum is an oily substance that is secreted onto the skin surface from glands located in the dermis. Although a number of useful functions have been proposed for sebum, proof that sebum performs any of them is lacking. In furred mammals an essential function of sebum is to supply 7-dehydrocholesterol, which is converted to vitamin D by the action of sunlight and then ingested by the animal as it grooms itself. In man, however, the location of 7-dehydrocholesterol has been shown to be the epidermis rather than sebum. Sebum may act as a waterproofing agent for fur, but humans obviously have little need for this function. Kligman has specifically disproved the notions that sebum improves the barrier function of skin, that sebum helps to regulate the water content of the horny layer by forming emulsions with sweat, or that sebum on the skin surface is fungistatic or antibacterial.(21) Kligman regards the human sebaceous glands as 'living fossils' that lost their usefulness to our species as we lost our fur.(21)

(21) Kligman, A. M.: The uses of sebum? In Montagna, W., Ellis, R. A., and Silver, A. F. (eds.): Advances in the Biology of Skin. Volume 4. Oxford, Pergamon Press, 1963.

And here's another excerpt from a medical journal article; again, written by doctors:

Journal of Investigative Dermatology. 1987 Mar;88(3 Suppl):2s-6s.
"Skin lipids: an update"
Downing DT, Stewart ME, Wertz PW, Colton SW, Abraham W, Strauss JS.

(excerpt from this study follows below, including the references...)

Sebum and Dry Skin "...skin can be healthy and have charming cosmetic properties in the virtual absence of sebum." (14)

Kligman drew attention to prepubertal children, who produce almost no sebum, to support his thesis that skin does not depend upon sebum for maintaining its barrier to water loss: "...there can be no doubt of the insignificance of sebum as a waterproofing material." (14) Our recent studies at the other end of the human age spectrum have supported this conviction. In a survey of sebum secretion rates and the incidence of dry skin among subjects aged 65 to 97, no correlation was found between sebaceous gland activity and the presence or severity of dry skin (34). Kligman recognized that sebum could mask the scaliness of dry skin without producing any actual change in the condition: "Sebum, like any oil, has some emollient or smoothing effect when a sufficient quantity is rubbed into dry, scaling skin." (14) In spite of the clear inference to be drawn from the cutaneous characteristics of children and the experimental data obtained from the elderly, it remains difficult to dispel the myth that low sebum secretion rates cause dry skin. It is a rare individual who realizes that "dry" is not the obverse of "oily".

(14) Kligman AM: The uses of sebum. Br J Dermatol 75: 307-319, 1963

(34) Frantz RA, Kinney CK, Downing DT: A study of skin dryness in the elderly. Nursing Res 35: 98-100, 1986.

Long story short: like I said in my previous post, sebum has no significant effect on moisture levels in the skin.

 

[moonbase]

That was a quick link I grabbed for reference sake. After tracking that journal down and reading a good sum of it. The evidence is contradictory to my understanding of sebum. My understanding was based off what DOCTORS have told me personally as well as what i've read.

Never the less this does change my logic. Since we don't "need" sebum to protect our hair.

I apologize for my hasty comments. Looks like I will be hitting the book some more to see if I can get to the bottom of it.

I have quite oily skin and hair... more reason to try and solve this riddle.

 

[armandein]

All hairs have a sebaceous gland attached, both form the pilosebaceous unit, why?
Armando

 

[bezerra]

Sebum isn't made to protect hair, but the scalp.

 

[Bryan]

Sebum isn't made to protect hair, but the scalp.

I don't think it's made to protect either one.

 

[Hoppi]

I'd be surprised if anyone could argue that healthy, well-regulated sebum production was better than just letting it run amok! lol

 

[armandein]

Sebum don't stop pestering us, its only function is produce acne. It is a relic of our past and, probably sebaceous gland exist before hairs. :woot:



Armando

 

[bezerra]

Sebum isn't made to protect hair, but the scalp.

I don't think it's made to protect either one.

In theory it does not protect anything. I was just stating for those people saying that sebum was meant for the hair, but the sebum in our head is meant to the skin, the scalp.

I think sebum is good just for grease some parts of the body. Excess is bad, as is no sebum.

 

[Bryan]

I think sebum is good just for grease some parts of the body. Excess is bad, as is no sebum.

Are you aware of any problems caused by a total lack of sebum? If so, I'd like to hear about them.

 

[bezerra]

I think sebum is good just for grease some parts of the body. Excess is bad, as is no sebum.

Are you aware of any problems caused by a total lack of sebum? If so, I'd like to hear about them.

I remember that when I used Accutane, the sebum production was almost zero. You may be aware of what happens when you've no sebum (that is even worse than "almost no sebum" (isotretinoin)).
My lips were broken, my skin was weak agains't cold winds, air conditioner, etc.
I'd dry eyes too, not too often, but I did. But I think they are not related to sebum but vit. A excess.

 

[Bryan]

I remember that when I used Accutane, the sebum production was almost zero. You may be aware of what happens when you've no sebum (that is even worse than "almost no sebum" (isotretinoin)).

No, I'm NOT aware of any problems from no sebum. That's why I was asking.

My lips were broken, my skin was weak agains't cold winds, air conditioner, etc.
I'd dry eyes too, not too often, but I did. But I think they are not related to sebum but vit. A excess.

Those problems aren't caused by a lack of sebum. People don't seem to be aware that Accutane has a variety of important effects on the skin. It's not the lack of sebum that causes dry, cracked skin, etc.

 

[bezerra]

My lips were broken, my skin was weak agains't cold winds, air conditioner, etc.
I'd dry eyes too, not too often, but I did. But I think they are not related to sebum but vit. A excess.

Those problems aren't caused by a lack of sebum. People don't seem to be aware that Accutane has a variety of important effects on the skin. It's not the lack of sebum that causes dry, cracked skin, etc.[/quote]

Sorry to say that, but you're wrong. Dry lips are because no sebum is there, if there's no sebum some parts of the body with thin skin and mucous membrane (as the lips) begin to be cracked and dry, causing irritation.
You can test it by yourself, use some light detergent to clean the area around your eyes intensively do it 5x per day in 1 week and you'll see that your skin will start to "flake" becayse its dryes.

 

[dougfunny]

My lips were broken, my skin was weak agains't cold winds, air conditioner, etc.
I'd dry eyes too, not too often, but I did. But I think they are not related to sebum but vit. A excess.

Those problems aren't caused by a lack of sebum. People don't seem to be aware that Accutane has a variety of important effects on the skin. It's not the lack of sebum that causes dry, cracked skin, etc.

Sorry to say that, but you're wrong. Dry lips are because no sebum is there, if there's no sebum some parts of the body with thin skin and mucous membrane (as the lips) begin to be cracked and dry, causing irritation.
You can test it by yourself, use some light detergent to clean the area around your eyes intensively do it 5x per day in 1 week and you'll see that your skin will start to "flake" becayse its dryes.[/quote]

what he said

 

[Bryan]

Sorry to say that, but you're wrong. Dry lips are because no sebum is there, if there's no sebum some parts of the body with thin skin and mucous membrane (as the lips) begin to be cracked and dry, causing irritation.

Do you REALLY think that normally, there's sebum on your lips?

Seriously, go back and re-read those studies by Kligman that I quoted earlier in this thread. He says "There can be no doubt as to the insignificance of sebum as a moisturizing agent" (or something to that effect).

You can test it by yourself, use some light detergent to clean the area around your eyes intensively do it 5x per day in 1 week and you'll see that your skin will start to "flake" becayse its dryes.

Severely overwashing your skin can definitely disrupt its normal condition and cause problems, but you need to understand that not ALL of the oil in skin is sebum! Not by a long shot! Problems that you get from doing the experiment you describe above come from the removal of fats and lipids of purely epidermal origin, disrupting the stratum corneum, etc. It has nothing to do with sebum per se.

 

[armandein]

Bryan ask:
" Do you REALLY think that normally, there's sebum on your lips? "

On the other hand, the lip vermilion surface lipids may not be from sebum, because sebaceous and sweat glands in the vermilion portion were rare histologically.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed

Al Cesar lo que es del Cesar

Armando