READ READ READ.. Very Interesting POV
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Sorry I misread, I read that as 20mg a day, not a week. I thought you said Empire that a lose dose like 10mg is enough for this to work?
helpmyhair
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Empire, just so you know, the chapped lips may never go away.. its 6 years after I stopped accutane for ance, and I still need to apply vasaline (chapstick doesn't really even work) to my lips after every shower... but its routine now, so not a big deal.
Pantothenic Acid Update:
So its been about 3 - 4 weeks since I stated on 500mg pantothenic acid a day. I've also been using 5000mcg Biotin with it. Upon starting this, I was loosing around 30 hairs everytime I rubbed my scalp over the sink... a couple weeks later, only about 5 hairs or so.. and now for the past week and a half, zero hairs falling in the sink after intense rubbing! Lets hope this holds up!
In addition, I've been using Sulsom Blue shampoo in the shower and after getting out, I use a scalp lotion my doctor prescribed... My Doctor said that this combination will keep the scalp healthy... and I feel it has greatly reduced inflammation. So it may be aiding as well.
Pantothenic Acid Update:
So its been about 3 - 4 weeks since I stated on 500mg pantothenic acid a day. I've also been using 5000mcg Biotin with it. Upon starting this, I was loosing around 30 hairs everytime I rubbed my scalp over the sink... a couple weeks later, only about 5 hairs or so.. and now for the past week and a half, zero hairs falling in the sink after intense rubbing! Lets hope this holds up!
In addition, I've been using Sulsom Blue shampoo in the shower and after getting out, I use a scalp lotion my doctor prescribed... My Doctor said that this combination will keep the scalp healthy... and I feel it has greatly reduced inflammation. So it may be aiding as well.
Empire
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Kero said:
Yeah there is.
20mg is safe for everybody.. except for the minority few who were affected outta pure bad luck
10mg is safe for everybody.. except for the minority few who were freakishly unexplanably effected.
The lower the better. Even if a drug is 99.9% safe.. imagine the poor soul who turned out to be part of that 0.1%
Your theory of hairloss would be pretty good if it weren't for the fatal flaw that hairs taken from balding areas of a scalp when they come in cantact with DHT they express negative growth factors, whereas non-balding hairs do not. This is hairs plucked from a head so there's no immune system around to kill them.
You should also do research on Accutane, you seem to think biotin is the answer to the hairloss and it clearly is not. I've wondered over the past 9 long years how it causes this hairloss. It's really hard to figure out since the drugs effects are so broad it effects so many parts of the body, notably parts with high cell division, it was created as a chemotherapy drug afterall. And it messes with so many genes it's really complicated. I think though, it has a lot to do with massive inflammation. Accutane has been known to screw around with the immune system.
Anyone considering using this drug should be prudent and know the possible side effects.
http://www.accutaneaction.com/Studies/index.html
You should also do research on Accutane, you seem to think biotin is the answer to the hairloss and it clearly is not. I've wondered over the past 9 long years how it causes this hairloss. It's really hard to figure out since the drugs effects are so broad it effects so many parts of the body, notably parts with high cell division, it was created as a chemotherapy drug afterall. And it messes with so many genes it's really complicated. I think though, it has a lot to do with massive inflammation. Accutane has been known to screw around with the immune system.
Anyone considering using this drug should be prudent and know the possible side effects.
http://www.accutaneaction.com/Studies/index.html
Thanks.
Maybe there is somebody here, who knows a good source for accutane on the net without a prescription? I think there are no countries where we can get Iso without a prescription, right? Damn, my Doctor would never prescribe it to me for hairloss >.> and i have just mild acne
Maybe there is somebody here, who knows a good source for accutane on the net without a prescription? I think there are no countries where we can get Iso without a prescription, right? Damn, my Doctor would never prescribe it to me for hairloss >.> and i have just mild acne
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Empire said:
Sure, there are studies in which cultured hair follicles from humans and stumptailed macaques were exposed to androgens and antiandrogens in vitro, and they showed the expected responses (suppressed by androgens, enhanced by antiandrogens).
Empire
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Bryan said:
If the suppression and enhansion is directly related to the growth, then these type of studies indicate that the immune system plays no role?
Doesn't make sense.. it gives no need for the inflammation nor immune response if the supp/enh. theory is true and directly linked to the loss of follicle.
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Empire said:
Not necessarily. Studies like that show that androgens and antiandrogens _do_ affect the growth of hair follicles even in vitro, but they don't really rule-out the possibility that the immune system may also be affecting them at the same time.
Empire said:
I agree that I don't see any real NEED for the immune system theory at the present time, but that certainly doesn't prove that it's absolutely incorrect.
I've posted about this before on hairloss forums: people keep talking about the immune system supposedly "attacking" hair follicles, but I've seen no clear proof or even evidence that it really does do that. The closest thing that comes to that would be the much-discussed study about how balding human hair follicles transplanted onto immune-deficient mice regrow comparably well as non-balding hair follicles, but that's about it. I've never seen any other study which suggests or even hints that the immune system "attacks" hair follicles.
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Empire said:
Here's one good example of such a study:
J Invest Dermatol. 1993 Jul;101(1 Suppl):98S-105S.
"Sex hormones and antiandrogens influence in vitro growth of dermal papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes of human hair follicles." Kiesewetter F, Arai A, Schell H.
Department of Dermatology, University of Erlangen-Nürnberg, Germany.
Anagen hair bulb papillae, interfollicular dermal fibroblasts, and interfollicular keratinocytes isolated from fronto-parietal scalp biopsies as well as outer root sheath keratinocytes from plucked anagen hairs were separately grown in subculture for 14 d. The effect of different concentrations (2.4 nM-17.3 microM) of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, and the antiandrogens cyproterone acetate or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone on growth behavior of the mesenchymal and epithelial cell types of the hair follicle were comparatively studied by means of growth curves, cell doubling times, and 3H-thymidine incorporation. For control, all cell lines were subcultured in hormone-free medium. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (345 nM) significantly reduced proliferation of papilla cells compared with dermal fibroblasts (p < 0.01) and outer root sheath keratinocytes compared with interfollicular keratinocytes (p < 0.01), as well as compared with cells cultured in control medium. Low concentrations of 17 beta-estradiol were ineffective, whereas doses of 180 nM 17 beta-estradiol increased the growth velocities of all cell types, especially of papilla cells, compared with dermal fibroblasts. Low doses of either cyproterone acetate (24 nM) or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (29 nM) induced a growth enhancement, especially of papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes, whereas high doses of cyproterone (1.20 microM) and 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (1.45 microM) had opposite effects. These changes were significant between papilla cells and dermal fibroblasts as well as between outer root sheath keratinocytes and interfollicular keratinocytes. Applying increasing doses of androgens to cyproterone acetate (24 nM)- or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (29 nM)-containing media neutralized the growth-stimulating effect of antiandrogens, particularly in papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes. However, minor differences between testosterone and dihydrotestosterone effects on cell growth were found. The data clearly demonstrate that the changes of in vitro growth of hair follicle cells depend on the concentrations of androgens and antiandrogens, as higher doses of both antiandrogens tested retarded the cell proliferation similar to testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. The papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes reacted more sensitively to the hormones tested, thereby confirming the concept of a distinct androgen sensitivity of these specialized hair follicle cells.
Bryan said:
That would be the way alopcia areata works. At least wikipedia says: 'The condition is thought to be an autoimmune disorder in which the body attacks its own hair follicles and suppresses or stops hair growth'. Considering the mice-study the immune system MIGHT also play a role in androgenetic alopecia.
Well... let me think about that again... do mice have that much DHT in their bloodstream to cause a transplanted human hair follicle to shrink assuming their immune system to be fine??
