Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[ToLGuy]

Yeah, no here's the thing:

The entire idea here is that this creates new hair via wound neogenisis. That is literally the scientific basis.

Because of that, you should be able to do it even just once (which the dhurat study did as I recall) and if that new hair is any good, it will continue to grow without further rolling. Rolling isn't going to help the growth of existing hair.

Still on finasteride. Still on minoxidil. The new hair is still the same length.

It either worked or it didn't. I trust you'll all be back here in 1 year to post your fullheads?

Oh let me guess: "I don't feel comfortable sharing pics of myself on here"

Do you realize how many false claims are in your post? With all due respect, you just weren't paying attention, or just didn't read the actual studies at all.

1. No, the entire idea of needling is NOT only follicle neogenesis. IT DOES help existing hair. Why? Because wounding g induces angiogenesis (creates more small blood vessels) around the wounded areas of the scalp, and also releases growth factors. Both growth factors and increased circulation benefits already existing hairs. Is there evidence backing this up? Hell yes, in the Chinese study, hair diameter was evaluated before and after treatment, and there was a statistically significant increase.

2. Where in the freaking hell did you read that you had to.roll only once ? No, in the Dhurat study they did not roll once, neither did they in the second Dhurat study (the one with the four subjects), and it wasn't also the case in the recent Chinese study. I'm sorry, but you are just spewing bulshit. Please, read very carefully the sources you are citing... And well, read carefully anything about the topic you are talking about before making such inaccurate claims. When you create new follicles via wounding,they are not necessarily going to be terminal, you have to keep wounding to increase circulation and releasing growth factors to increasing the chances that those baby, newly spouted hairs get some development. Also, no one knows whether those newly generated hairs are immune to DHT. By the way you talk, you are assuming they are immune, but we don't freaking know because there are no studies evaluating if they have more androgen receptors or not. In this thread, most of us are assuming we have to wound for life to keep our gains (if we get some). I don't know why were you thinking you had to do that once or a few times and that's all.
And regarding the duration you were expecting results, man, get a grip on hair cycles. Even hair transplants take more than 6 months to see something "good enough", and hair transplants is supposedly the panacea of hair loss solutions.
I'm sorry if you didn't get Mufasa's name in 3.5 months as you were expecting, but don't use your experience as an argument against the efficacy of wounding, coz it's one of the worst arguments I've read here.

 

[ToLGuy]

Here it is. I found a way to post it without upload it myself and therefore not responsible for copyright violation(or whatever the f***. Paid journal hosting sites are jelly these days because scientists are planning to open source it all in the future)

https://sci-hub.tw/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jdv.14722

I did read this a month ago or so. It's a review article on the current studies conducted so far. Nothing really knew, they mostly cite and talk about the studies we have already read, except for the Chinese one, which is very recent.

 

[Headdy]

And this is from 2016
http://www.surgicalcosmetic.org.br/...ica-de-microinfusao-de-medicamentos-pela-pele

 

[PeggyPeterson]

@That Guy

Why don’t you give micro needling another try? This time for longer. So far most people on this thread such as @FrenchMoustache have a healthy dose of skepticism, having neither ruled out needling or promoted it. We are all simply here to see whether this thing works.

For you to completely rule this out after 3 months is unhelpful.

 

[byebyehair]

Owndoc (company that makes derminator) is experiencing three month shipping delays right now due to demand.

So even if you order one, it will take a while to arrive. In the meantime, you will need something else to dermaneedle.

That is a pretty good reason not to go with this on

Can some people not see the pics in this post? Don't see anything.

Edit: Ok he took them down for privacy

saw them. He had pretty okay hair in the beginning and great hair at the end

 

[Heat06]

I believe this was covered in this thread, but I can’t seem to find it. Question for you guys, the dermapen I have came with “12 needle tips” and “36 needle tips.” What is everyone using?

You think 36 needles, that must be more effective to use than the 12 needle tip, but I find using the 36 doesn’t really inflict any pain compared to the 12 and also seems to be pulling my hair out. Like I look at the tip of my pen and see long strands inside the needles, but that’s not the case when I use the 12.

What is everyone using with their derma pens?

 

[Bill_Russo]

I believe this was covered in this thread, but I can’t seem to find it. Question for you guys, the dermapen I have came with “12 needle tips” and “36 needle tips.” What is everyone using?

You think 36 needles, that must be more effective to use than the 12 needle tip, but I find using the 36 doesn’t really inflict any pain compared to the 12 and also seems to be pulling my hair out. Like I look at the tip of my pen and see long strands inside the needles, but that’s not the case when I use the 12.

What is everyone using with their derma pens?

The studies were using 12. I believe most people here are going for that.

 

[Francesco17]

@That Guy

Why don’t you give micro needling another try? This time for longer. So far most people on this thread such as @FrenchMoustache have a healthy dose of skepticism, having neither ruled out needling or promoted it. We are all simply here to see whether this thing works.

For you to completely rule this out after 3 months is unhelpful.

Absolutely, if you got any sort of new hair after only 3 months, I think it's very encouraging. And even if it doesn't go past that, who knows, maybe when something better comes out you will be slightly advantaged

 

[Arrade]

Saved some money guys and got this one at a yard sale. I feel like it will give me pinpoint accuracy

 

[Bill_Russo]

Saved some money guys and got this one at a yard sale. I feel like it will give me pinpoint accuracy
View attachment 106842

2young style. I dig it.

 

[Arrade]

Here is confirmed sh*t as per research from 1995 to 2017. So, we can clear the air as to what the f*** is happening.

Microneedling has specifically been demonstrated to increase hair regrowth in alopecia via the release of platelet-derived
growth factor, epidermal growth factors and activation of the hair bulge, all of which are triggered by the wound healing
response.

Increased expression of Wnt proteins, namely Wnt3a and Wnt10b, is also evident following microneedling. These particular proteins have been demonstrated to stimulate dermal papillae stem cells and hair growth.

These skin punctures trigger a wound healing reaction composed of platelet-derived growth factor, transforming growth factor alpha and beta, vascular endothelial growth factor, fibroblast growth factor, epidermal growth factor and Wnt proteins, among others, without significantly damaging the epidermis.

Essentially, these vertical channels of injury break down existing scars and lead to neocollagenesis, which is of particular importance cosmetically in reducing the appearance of wrinkles and scars and revascularization of the skin, which is a mechanism which stimulates hair growth.


Information on use of pen

The pen is a narrow instrument that utilizes 33 gauge needles that vibrate and punch vertically into the skin at speeds of up to 25+ times/s manoeuvred over the appropriate area in a vertical, horizontal and diagonal direction approximately 15–20 times, which should produce roughly 250 holes per square centimetre. 3 Pinpoint bleeding or mild erythema from the covered area is the desired
endpoint and is achieved with minimal pressure.



Now before people start going crazy and say they only have a 12 needle dermapen, read the point about moving it in various directions for 15-20 times to create pinpoint bleeding and mild erythema. A 12 needle dermapen will do that too and if you are too worried then just buy cartridge that has close to 33 needles after you run out of current needles.


It is worth mentioning that this lack of standard procedure has a bearing on success of treatment. As demonstrated in Kim et al.’s Murine model study of microneedling, hair growth varied based on the size of the needle and the number of times the skin was rolled over.

To derive greatest therapeutic success in human subjects, a standard optimal protocol needs to be determined. No side-effects have been reported so far in the literature, and microneedling appears to be quite safe. Possible side effects due to topical anaesthetics and infections should, however, be considered.

"which is of particular importance cosmetically in reducing the appearance of wrinkles and scars and revascularization of the skin"

So it removes the fibrosis and allows the skin to receive blood flow properly
(fibrosis is errant scar tissue)

Great post @MinervaCGI

 

[Bill_Russo]

As demonstrated in Kim et al.’s Murine model study of microneedling, hair growth varied based on the size of the needle and the number of times the skin was rolled over.

So this does play an important role. Wonder if the more is the better in this case.
Beautiful post, man.

 

[inmyhead]

Here is confirmed sh*t as per research from 1995 to 2017. So, we can clear the air as to what the f*** is happening.

Microneedling has specifically been demonstrated to increase hair regrowth in alopecia via the release of platelet-derived
growth factor, epidermal growth factors and activation of the hair bulge, all of which are triggered by the wound healing
response.

Increased expression of Wnt proteins, namely Wnt3a and Wnt10b, is also evident following microneedling. These particular proteins have been demonstrated to stimulate dermal papillae stem cells and hair growth.

These skin punctures trigger a wound healing reaction composed of platelet-derived growth factor, transforming growth factor alpha and beta, vascular endothelial growth factor, fibroblast growth factor, epidermal growth factor and Wnt proteins, among others, without significantly damaging the epidermis.

Essentially, these vertical channels of injury break down existing scars and lead to neocollagenesis, which is of particular importance cosmetically in reducing the appearance of wrinkles and scars and revascularization of the skin, which is a mechanism which stimulates hair growth.


Information on use of pen

The pen is a narrow instrument that utilizes 33 gauge needles that vibrate and punch vertically into the skin at speeds of up to 25+ times/s manoeuvred over the appropriate area in a vertical, horizontal and diagonal direction approximately 15–20 times, which should produce roughly 250 holes per square centimetre. 3 Pinpoint bleeding or mild erythema from the covered area is the desired
endpoint and is achieved with minimal pressure.



Now before people start going crazy and say they only have a 12 needle dermapen, read the point about moving it in various directions for 15-20 times to create pinpoint bleeding and mild erythema. A 12 needle dermapen will do that too and if you are too worried then just buy cartridge that has close to 33 needles after you run out of current needles.


It is worth mentioning that this lack of standard procedure has a bearing on success of treatment. As demonstrated in Kim et al.’s Murine model study of microneedling, hair growth varied based on the size of the needle and the number of times the skin was rolled over.

To derive greatest therapeutic success in human subjects, a standard optimal protocol needs to be determined. No side-effects have been reported so far in the literature, and microneedling appears to be quite safe. Possible side effects due to topical anaesthetics and infections should, however, be considered.

Hmm, so it would make sense to use fastest speed on derminator? I wonder about needle size though. Derminator has 9 needles, but here they used 33

 

[Bill_Russo]

On a side note, he doesn't believe in microneedling. He told me: "it sounds too easy to be true". I showed him the two studies. Only the Chinese one sounds legit for him. After reading the chinese study he added: "let's try it, you have nothing to lose doing this".

Haha, gotta love using the "too easy to be true" logic to dismiss something.
If we were to follow it, taking a pill or applying a lotion on your scalp is x10 easier. And yet that's exactly what "the big 3" is.
Good luck with your session!

 

[Bill_Russo]

Here is one for 36 needles.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Nee...4.0&pvid=693f2731-0ac5-4d66-b970-8d913b262ce4

NOTE - THIS IS NOT AN AFFILIATE LINK

Will this work for the Derminator? So I can save it and get 'em when I upgrade.
Thanks a lot, man.

 

[albert]

Here is a pack of 50 needles for 12 pin cartridge. It cost only 26 dollars. This is a supply for a entire year if you do it every week.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/50p...lgo_pvid=f3b15e3c-e0a5-4632-8df0-ae0bc346f0f4

NOTE - THIS IS NOT AN AFFILIATE LINK

Somehow I don't trust these are sterilized properly. Maybe they are, but I'd still not take any chance with Chinese sellers in general, so even though I agree with new needles every time (that's what I do at least) I'd disinfect them.

 

[nohairnolife]

no regrowth yet but it feels amazing to castigate my scalp for its cowardly and weak follicles

 

[Bankai]

In another forum I read something about the risk of bacteria that get to your blood paves through microneedling. That would be a high risk. What do you guys think?

 

[Drextez]

Will ask him. He spoke a lot more about the needles than the skin itself. He kept repeating: "Oh, eh, make sure you use new needles. Don't play with your health ! ". I think hand sanitizer must be enough.

I didn't want to put the emphasis on the needles on this thread as I know that many people on here can't afford a pen + new needles. I showed him dermarollers and he told me that they were not safe, particularly if you are 65 years old or more. Little dermastamps for single usage must be safe.

But what do you recommend if I want to start with dermarolling 1.5mm even if its ''not safe''? What are the steps I need to take to stay hygenic and protect my health? ..................I want to start with dermarolling 1.5mm because @Kitedude reversed his hairloss ONLY dermarolling from 2013 to now

 

[albert]

In another forum I read something about the risk of bacteria that get to your blood paves through microneedling. That would be a high risk. What do you guys think?

The risk is always there, but if you follow pretty basic hygiene/disinfection tips then nothing will happen. I mean, there’s no 100% guarantee it won’t happen - remember it happens even in minor surgeries (in a small percentage). But I feel pretty confident that proper sterilization of tool, hands and scalp will prevent 99.999999% of problems.