What's the point if all you can attract is uglies or w****s?

[qball01]

You must have very low self esteem to say this.Hair loss is a big problem,but is not the end of the world.Dress well,work your body,be joyful and confident,and everything wi'll be ok.

This is the standard counter argument to 'hair loss fucks my life up' argument.

First of it does depend. But I personally disagree. Smooth made a very interesting and refreshing point that I feel rings great truths. People go on and on about 'confidence', but it is such an overated element.

Bottom line as smooth said, girls will approach and fancy good looking guys, shy or confident. If your confident but bald like an egg and ugly, what hope do we have? Honestly lets be serious. A girl does not give a sh*t how 'confident' you are. Obvoiusly you need to have some inner belief and conviction in your ability. But this isnt going make girls like you. Its just going to give your more energy to keep on looking. The people with no inner strength are the ones who go bald and then retreat socially, aka dudemon. Even so, thats understandable in its own way. Girls arent wired that different from guys. We both look for attractive mates, simple as. Obvoiusly there are slight differences but its more or less the same. How many guys hee would go out with an ugly girl just because she had 'confidence'?

Bottom line is that generally speaking women dont dislike baldness per se, but most bald guys become far less attractive without hair, and thats why it sucks. There are a lucky few white guys that seem to weather the storm quite well and still look quite good, but they are few and far between. If your average, perhaps confidence will help somewhat. But in general it doesnt matter how 'confident' you are. Obvoiusly workout, eat right, dress well. But dont expect these things to really raise your attractivness that much, they will help slightly.

Sometimes when I think of the cruelty and vanity of the human race it makes me so sad. We are living in this rat race and theres nothing we can do about it, other than stay in it or drop out.

you say confidence is overrated but you don't have an understanding of what true confidence is either so its a moot point...its not about faking being happy and energetic. The truth is, most men have your opinion engrained in their mind so if they don't look like a male model...they are unable to be confident because they think they need to look like a male model to get any interest....they feel like they don't have "permission" to be confident and it would be offensive if they were confident but not also good looking.

I can identify with this mindset because its definitely true that we get this impression as males...but its not so cut and dry/black and white....if you don't think personality and attitude matter dramatically then you're also wrong....you're also wrong in thinking that ugly girls are gonna be the ones who are attracted to ugly/and or bald men....if anything, ugly to average looking girls are more insecure and value a good looking guy MORE because in her mind he will reflect the fact that she isn't indeed ugly. Whereas the really good looking girls who are also self assured won't care as much about her partner's genetic looks because it won't matter as much to her....shes prbly had experience with being with the Adnois like guys when she was younger and she'll reach a point where other factors become a lot more important than simply just looks.

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Hey Dudemon, I apologize. I didnt mean that. I was looking for an example of a 'negative' thinker. Which, to a great degree, you are. I am in some ways as well.

I guess we all have to try and foss out our own path in life. Hairloss will effect us in different ways and in differing degrees.

I personally try and visualize myself as a good looking bald guy when that day comes. I find visualization is a really powerful tool to overcome depression. I kind of try and see myself as a Bruce Willis for example. Even if Ill never be as good looking as him, having that visual link helps. If he can do it, so can I.

Its not going to be an easy ride. We have to try and etch out a middle way. The only true way forward is acceptance, and if you can accept yourself as you are, then your well on the way. I feel its good to do that fairly frequently. Ill say to myself, usually in my head, that I love who I am. It feels good to be me. No one else will lead my life, its truly unique etc.

If you can start to accept yourself as who you are, then you will release a lot of suffering.

 

[Smooth]

Hey Dude, my hair loss got to such degree that im actually considering going the hair transplant route myself (not now, but when i finish schooling), i really m frightened by your horror stories and all the butchers out there...i don tthink there is any other way for me other then hair transplant or a wig.... i dont mind either (if/when ill have the money), any valuable tips i can squeeze from you ? (like any good docs you can recommend? which method choose?, i understand you went with strip right? maybe if you have chosen FUE your situation would be better right now?.. what do you think? )

 

[epictetus]

Delete

 

[Hope4hairRedux]

Fortes fortuna adiuvat - Fortune favours the brave

 

[Bald Dave]

I know people are gonna disagree with me here but yesterday i saw a slick bald guy on the tube (underground train in London) with a attractive young girl. She was slim, blonde and pretty and he was slick bald, wore glasses and looked at least 10 years older than her! But then again I supposed she is only with him because he is rich :dunno:

 

[nerdwood]

I know people are gonna disagree with me here but yesterday i saw a slick bald guy on the tube (underground train in London) with a attractive young girl. She was slim, blonde and pretty and he was slick bald, wore glasses and looked at least 10 years older than her! But then again I supposed she is only with him because he is rich :dunno:

Yeah, obviously just a money hungry skank after his billion$ despite his cunning plan of commuting on the train pretending to be a commoner. :whistle:

 

[epictetus]

Delete

 

[s.a.f]

Can we end this one now PLEEEEAAASSE!

As usual its turned into a battle between the deluded pessimists and the deluded optimists. When the real truth lies somewhere inbetween.

Fact is hairloss is not going to help your appearance, which in turn is'nt going to help you chances of attracting a woman. But the biggest misconception involved in this arguement is that all women think exactly the same.

It also depends on what you want from them. If your plan is to be a playa picking up hotties for 1 nighters then yes it will probably have a big impact on your success rates but if you just want a relationship then the negative effect will be much lower.
The truth is its your overall package, looks and personality and everything else all added together that will be the deciding factors.

For some women looks are very important for some its money but I'd expect in either case personality counts for a substantial amount in the overal package.

And as many people have mentioned its the negative effect of hairloss on the suffer's psyche that are just as (if not more) damaging to his chances as the actual effect on his looks.

Most of the complainers on here fail to realise their other shortcomings. When they make hypocritical observations on why the hottest women pass them up in favour for someone who just happens to have better hair.

 

[Nene]

Hey Dudemon, I apologize. I didnt mean that. I was looking for an example of a 'negative' thinker. Which, to a great degree, you are. I am in some ways as well.

I guess we all have to try and foss out our own path in life. Hairloss will effect us in different ways and in differing degrees.

I personally try and visualize myself as a good looking bald guy when that day comes. I find visualization is a really powerful tool to overcome depression. I kind of try and see myself as a Bruce Willis for example. Even if Ill never be as good looking as him, having that visual link helps. If he can do it, so can I.

Its not going to be an easy ride. We have to try and etch out a middle way. The only true way forward is acceptance, and if you can accept yourself as you are, then your well on the way. I feel its good to do that fairly frequently. Ill say to myself, usually in my head, that I love who I am. It feels good to be me. No one else will lead my life, its truly unique etc.

If you can start to accept yourself as who you are, then you will release a lot of suffering.

It's ok. I have just been unfortunate as far having life go my way. It usually never does. Nothing, well almost nothing, is ever successful for me. Every time I try to improve things only get worse.

I have been trying so hard to improve myself and my life for almost a decade now and I am no better off than 10 years ago. Worse now, actually, plus I'm 10 years older. Everything negative in my life is centered around my awkward appearance. That has been the story of my life, literally.

For example, I busted my *** this semester in school and got an A or B in the hardest class I have ever taken in my life, plus I got A's in both of my other classes.

This is my reward for working so hard this semester:

(this is kinda off-topic, and not related to my appeance issues, but I am using this as an example of my bad luck).

During the last week of this semester before finals (approx 2 weeks ago), I blacked out at school in the classroom. Without any indications, I just felt real dizzy all the sudden, and just lost conciousness. The school called an ambulance, and I woke up the ER, only to be released 2 hours later with nothing wrong with me, other than to find out I had an inner ear infection that caused me to get a bad case of vertigo, and because I had only a few hours of sleep the night before (plus I drank a few beers) apparently, it caused me to black out.

I told the ER and the staff at the hospital that I did not have the money to pay a large bill, and that I didn't want any treatment because I didn't have health insurance. (who can afford it when they charge $500 a month for premiums, especially while going to school?)

But it was too late. Apparently, while I was unconcious, they had run all kinds of meaningless tests on me, such as an EKG and cat scan of my brain, etc...only to find out that I just had a bad case of vertigo caused by an inner ear infection (that I didn't even know I had).

To make a long story short, I now have a $12,000 (due Dec 25 Xmas day, Merry Christmas to me :jackit: ) hospital bill for absolutely nothing. Just like that.

The reason why I'm bringing this up is that this story is typical of my life. I have had so many very unfortunate and unlucky things such as this happen to me my whole life. It never ends. Just when I think I'm fianlly getting to where I can see light at the end of the tunnel, some unnecessary bullsh*t comes along and throws a monkey wrench in my plans, and f*cks everything up. It never fails! I mean really, it never does in my case. I get screwed every time.

My hair transplant experience: case and point.

So as you can see, I am someone who has a negative outlook because no matter how hard I try to "act positive," life always has "other" plans for me. Always.

Now before I can get more hair transplant work done (which I desperately need very badly), I have a completely unnecessary $12,000 hospital bill to pay for instead. Lucky me.

There's another old saying that goes: "If I didn't have any bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."

That is literally the story of my life. I bet that I am probably one of the most unluckiest people this planet has ever known. Seriously.

Nevertheless, I still try to improve, and hope for the best. My negative outlook, and my life-long hard luck doesn't stop me from continuing to try harder.

Some day maybe? That's what I've been saying for a decade. But who knows? :dunno:

Dudemon, you really need to try and be more positive. You said you are "probably one of the unluckiest people this planet has ever known." That is ridiculous! Do you know how many people have died at a young age from cancer, aids, etc? How many people are physcally or sexually abused as children? How many people right now are starving to death? I think they would consider you quite a bit luckier than they are. I also tend to think very negatively, so I know how it is, but you have to try. I know life has dealt you a shitty hand, and that sucks. But if you walk around all day saying "something is going to go wrong because it always does," then it will! There is a psychological phenomenon known as self-fufilling prophecy. For example, if you meet a new group of people and think to yourself, "they're going to hate me because I'm a loser", then you're going to behave like a sour puss. The people will sense your negative attitude and see your sour puss behavior and will not like you, just as you predicted. Just like some of these people who take finasteride expecting their balls to fall off and what do you know? They get sides. The human mind is a powerful thing. I'm not saying everything bad that happens is your own fault, I'm just saying that a negative outlook can lead to more negativity. Look at the positives, congrats on getting such great grades! What are you studying?

 

[superfrankie]

and I just wanna say something that happened to me recently:

I have hooked up a gorgeous and sexy 36 y old woman over the internet: Weve spoken on the phone and she knows how I look (well, at least with a cap on) and she loves my sense of humor and my personality. She also thinks Im "cute". She has given invitations several times for me to come and join her at her place. Since Im 21 its obvious its just a potential f¤ck-friend relationship.

Whats sad is that I feel that going for older more mature women is the only way I can get sex at the moment. Simply cause they may value personality and whats inside more than younger ones. There not as shallow I guess. Whats frightening me is that she says she only meet "high quality men". She said she was picky (who isnt?) and rather spend one night alone than with a half decent man. And she dont even know Im bald and NW5. And Im just so f****ing scared to be rejected if she knew. I know Im pathetic but its just the way it is since I know she will question me regarding my age. So despite my humour and personality she will say no cause she may be scared of how I look and get turned off

I wouldnt be this absent-minded if I still had my hair. Thats for sure. Oh God..I hate this.

I talked to her on the phone for a couple of hours and she was very fascinated about my mature personality.I made her laugh almost every minute and the chemistry between us felt great. She was also talking much about how much she values what is inside of a person, and that appearance was not as important.

We met and irl and I quickly realized that she became distant. I was having the same "I-feel-like-Im-unhuman-when-someone-looks-at-me-feeling". I cant say I was suprised by the reaction. Its not the frist time so to speak. People can say whatever they want but I know her rejection was due to my NW5 hairloss. Everything was just perfect until we met. And the fact that she several times said I was very handsome (since I showed her a couple of pic with my hat on) only points more to that explanation. My personality is not the problem. Its my appearance. And I know that.

 

[Oknow]

and I just wanna say something that happened to me recently:

I have hooked up a gorgeous and sexy 36 y old woman over the internet: Weve spoken on the phone and she knows how I look (well, at least with a cap on) and she loves my sense of humor and my personality. She also thinks Im "cute". She has given invitations several times for me to come and join her at her place. Since Im 21 its obvious its just a potential f¤ck-friend relationship.

Whats sad is that I feel that going for older more mature women is the only way I can get sex at the moment. Simply cause they may value personality and whats inside more than younger ones. There not as shallow I guess. Whats frightening me is that she says she only meet "high quality men". She said she was picky (who isnt?) and rather spend one night alone than with a half decent man. And she dont even know Im bald and NW5. And Im just so f****ing scared to be rejected if she knew. I know Im pathetic but its just the way it is since I know she will question me regarding my age. So despite my humour and personality she will say no cause she may be scared of how I look and get turned off

I wouldnt be this absent-minded if I still had my hair. Thats for sure. Oh God..I hate this.

I talked to her on the phone for a couple of hours and she was very fascinated about my mature personality.I made her laugh almost every minute and the chemistry between us felt great. She was also talking much about how much she values what is inside of a person, and that appearance was not as important.

We met and irl and I quickly realized that she became distant. I was having the same "I-feel-like-Im-unhuman-when-someone-looks-at-me-feeling". I cant say I was suprised by the reaction. Its not the frist time so to speak. People can say whatever they want but I know her rejection was due to my NW5 hairloss. Everything was just perfect until we met. And the fact that she several times said I was very handsome (since I showed her a couple of pic with my hat on) only points more to that explanation. My personality is not the problem. Its my appearance. And I know that.

Maybe you should have met her with her hat on. :dunno:

Not being funny, but has it occured to you that maybe she felt that way because she might have been shy? It is much more easier to be confident over the net/phone than in real life.

Also with girls, you will find that many feed off your own bodylanguage. So many times I have been hanging out with a girl, only to find that she is mirroring my BL at the time. In other words, if I am depressed and negative, she reflects this by becoming negative (distant) towards me, and vice versa if I am positive, she acts positive, flirts and is fun.

The last time I was in this situation was with the girl and her BF being there. She was cold, disinterested and acting like a knob. By the end of the meeting, she deeply regretted not spending more alone time with me, and from the looks of it I will be seeing her again in the next few days, this time alone. That's purely because I was positive, assertive - and for the record I have both hairloss now, and weight loss - has not detered her. Looks help, but attitude is the key - as saf stated the uglier you are, you just have to work that extra bit harder then a good looking guy. You also have less leway then a good looking guy - no point bitching about it, just get on with it and accept it.

Women in the end are a mental battle. I think the problem is with us, is that we are too in our heads when we talk to them and it shows.

 

[qball01]

This is the danger of the self fulfilling prophecy when it comes to being bald and dating....Forget for a minute, the possibility that maybe it WAS your appearance.

You admit that you had that feeling that "I-feel-like-Im-unhuman-when-someone-looks-at-me-feeling." IT sounds like you automatically went into this date with negative thoughts ingrained in your mind and assumed she was going to reject you because of your baldness. That mindset can easily show up in your actions, your body language like mentioned above...and just the general atmosphere of the date. It sounds like you weren't able to be that relaxed, funny guy you were on the phone and as a result, there wasn't a positive mood.

Trust me...all the negative guys here can say what they want about how being bald sucks and it makes them unlovable...but a girl will lose attraction to somebody VERY quickly over things the guy doesn't even notice...and then he looks for the most obvious thing to blame.

Also the fact you only had a hat on in your pictures and then showed up to the date bald could be seen as deceiving from her point of view and show insecurity on your part....did she mention anything about you being bald?

Anyways, I'm not saying it wasn't a factor...maybe it was, but at the same time before you state 100 percent "it was my appearance that was the problem, not my personality" you have to consider other possibilities, such as mentioned above....unless you acted the exact same way on the date as you did on the phone...then you can't just blame your appearance...and it sounds like you had a tough time being relaxed and outgoing because you were too caught up in your negative thoughts.

 

[superfrankie]

They say confidence can overweight hairloss when it comes to attracting women. f*** that! Not in my age. Imagine yourself living with a NW5 at my age. You do no longer exist for them. Confidence doesnt take me somewhere since my appearance is totally destroyed. It doesnt matter if I believe Im handsome, its not gonna make a difference. I bet very FEW in here can relate to my situation. You dont know the reality Im living in. So f*** you guys!


"Sorry to say this, but you have created this problem yourself"

uke:

 

[uncomfortable man]

My condolences Superfrankie. That sucks man. Don't listen to these guys, they may mean well but the sugar coated BS isn't doing you any favors. Sure, it may have been misleading with the hat but what these guys resist to accept is that it is a double edged sword either way. You can shave your head and try and take a good picture that way, post it up and see if anyone bites. You can try and write something witty and clever to show your personality, but this all important confidence that these guys stress so much on can't be conveyed through a personal on an internet dating site...so you might not get so many responses as before and the "quality" of women will probably go down. Yes, you will be honest but you will pay the price for it. This whole situation reminds me of this dating show in the UK where they take the contestant out in public and let him/her choose anyone they see and ask them if they want to have a date right there on the spot on T.V.. Well one episode, they take this young attractive woman out and she spots a guy hanging out with his friends across the street at a coffee shop. So they run over to this guy with their cameras and give him the whole pitch. When the hostess of the show asked the dude to take off his hat revealing that he was bald, the young woman instantly rejected him right there on public television. So was it something about his personality that was conveyed to her in that instant he removed his hat that turned her off and not his actual baldness persay? No, BULLSHIT! The answer is so obvious, yet these people who have no idea what it is like will offer up any other explanation for arguments sake because they don't want to come off as negative. Guys like Qball will say, "let's pretend for a minute that it's not your baldness." but what good will pretending do? Guys like Oknow will try to give you advice using their own personal experience as an example, but then again he has a full head of hair so it is a different equation all together. The other thing about this that kills me is that this woman is close to forty, which according to so many people on this site means that she doesn't care if a guy is bald or not. Again, bullshit.

 

[qball01]

See, the reason I argue with you U-man is to try and prevent a situation like this happening where some young kid who is devastated by hair loss reads what you write and believes his life is over because you pain this terrible experience about being bald and how it makes people persecute and want to maim you....and then they think..."if its that bad at 35...I'm screwed because I'm only 21!! My life isn't worth living anymore!"

Truth is...I was similar to that at first, but its clear now your mindset is BY FAR inaccurate. The fact is...in superfrankie's case...there IS NO CLEAR answer as to what went wrong with the girl. By blaming it on hairloss he is refusing to acknolwedge that maybe HE did something wrong on the date in terms of how he acted that wasn't congruent with how he spoke on the phone.

You do the same thing too...you refuse to take any responsibility for your own fate in life and play the pathetic victim who has been tormented by going bald. Newsflash...YOU ARENT alone, and not all bald people are "alone". Its a perfect excuse because you don't have to do anything to change and you can whine all day as to how unfair it is that you're bald..and convince yourself in your mind that people are howling and cacking at you so you never have to confront any bigger problem. Its sad....the fact is, even the people who opt to get hair transplant's or other procedures don't have as warped a mindset as you....the worst thing you can do is spread your mindset to a guy like frankie and make him believe a truth that is based on YOUR WARPED BODY DYSMORPHIC PERCEPTION of life...

and superfrankie...the WORST thing you can do is listen to U-man and take what he says to be the truth...there are PLENTY of other bald guys who will tell you differently. Don't fall into the same trap he has by blaming EVERYTHING on hairloss with zero accountability for your own actions...

if you want an answer from this woman...you know what? If its already obvious you won't progress with her in a relationship then be honest and ASK her...and make sure she knows you want the truth. Just tell her not to spare your feelings and ask what went wrong on the date and if maybe your baldness, or the fact you wore a hat in your pics and then showed up for the date bald was a factor in the date. But don't proceed to rush to judgment before you actually know the facts because then you're just torturing yourself over possibilities that MAY OR MAY NOT be true....

and unlike others on here...I DO know what its like...I've been shaving my head bald due to substantial hairloss for 2 years...and while I recognize that I'd be lying to myself if I said it doesn't turn SOME women off instantly...I'd also be lying if I said that all of them care...I know some really don't give a sh*t..ESPECIALLY if you act like a man is supposed to act. But if you go around with this "I feel unhuman when you look at me" look then what the hell do you expect is going to happen? You're not going to be ABLE to be charming and funny and act like a real man...and then you WILL be rejected....

 

[Smooth]

In some cases (obviously not yours qball01) going bald severely effects ones looks, it has the potential to ruin you in a very objective perspective, you can shave it all and maybe look just a little "worse" while others cant do sh*t about it (egg shaped head etc)... so saying it only effects you to a certain degree is bs and if you sell that to a young bald guy, you set him for a path that might be full with disappointments.. its good to have both perspectives tho. (although personally i dont sweepingly agree with either).

 

[uncomfortable man]

Yes, Superfrankie if you get the chance to ask her what went wrong and she gives you some politically correct cop-out like "I just didn't feel a connection" after you already hit if off with her on the phone/internet, then you will know that her line about "looks aren't important" is just more fertilizer for the garden. But I have a feeling you already know the truth. Most women won't do you the favor of being brutally honest because they want to avoid any uncomfortable moments and not look like the bad guy.

 

[qball01]

Yes, Superfrankie if you get the chance to ask her what went wrong and she gives you some politically correct cop-out like "I just didn't feel a connection" after you already hit if off with her on the phone/internet, then you will know that her line about "looks aren't important" is just more fertilizer for the garden. But I have a feeling you already know the truth. Most women won't do you the favor of being brutally honest because they want to avoid any uncomfortable moments and not look like the bad guy.

My God you're beyond the point of repair....what if she really didn't feel the connection because the way he acted in person was completely different from how he acted on the phone? What if he felt uncomfortable because he convinced himself she already wouldn't like him and his body language showed it? You say all this crap about how people view baldness but do you fail to recognize that other factors can potentially be more important? You do realize that beyond physical appearance (which I'm not denying DOES make a difference) things such as attitude and body language are also huge factors...if this WASN'T the case, then every Norwood 1 in the world would be amazing with women and have great social lives...is this the case in reality?

 

[superfrankie]

Im not gonna ask her what was the problem, cause I already know the answer. I saw a pic of her two brothers. Both around 35-40. Full head of hair both of them. And here I come looking 10 times older than them. Of course she was going to reject me. She said she was temped by being with a cute little boy around 20. There is no way she believed I was 21 when I met her. NO WAY!. If I had shown her a pic of me bald before we met and right after our great conversation on the telephone, Im 100% she would vanish after that. How do I know? Well I made an experiment on a dating site last summer. One profile when I had pics of me before I was getting bald. Recieved around 15 messanges a week from cute girls in my age. And one profile when I showed my baldness. One message in 1 month(and she was not even good looking!!!) and 3-5 replies out of around 100 mess sent. The purpose behind this was that I wanted to see the difference in attention from the opposite sex between the profiles. The most interesting thing about all this was that with the first profile I didnt wrote any information about myself whereas I did on the second one. And that information was pretty good. I lied of course and told I was studying to become a doctor etc. But it didnt matter. They rejected me cause I was bald on the second profile. They became either extremely turned off or just scared. Or both at the same time. Pretty interesting huh? I cant say I was suprised by the results.

The bottom line is that. Yes, I am JUDGED by my hairloss. Dont pretend Im not.

PS! UM, I saw that show before and that SUCKS. Its too brutal to even think about it.