Darolutamide (odm-201), A Better Topical Than Enzalutamide?

SteveTabernack

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In a perfect world we’d all have hair and all the instagram model wannabes getting their tits, *** and abs out 25/7 would be bald af :)

Haha yeah, poor choice of words on my behalf. In a perfect world we definitely wouldn't have to get Chinese chemicals tested in a desperate effort to keep f*****g follicles on our heads.
 

SpaceInvader

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I made two batches now, one with Enza and the other with "Daro". 10 mg/10mL of Ethanol each to see how they behave.

When I was using Enza, I was warming it up, so it was probably heat damaged.

I noticed itch reduction recently when I started making unheated daro batches in minoxidil.
 
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Georgie

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I made two batches now, one with Enza and the other with "Daro". 10 mg/10mL of Ethanol each to see how they behave.

When I was using Enza, I was warming it up, so it was probably heat damaged.

I noticed itch reduction recently when I started making unheated daro batches in minoxidil.
It’s so strange, but I’ve never had an “itch”. @Pasbrillantebrunette @EvilLocks did you ever get the itch with hairloss?
 

Ollie

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I’m a nurse, so sadly I don’t really have the capacity to just test random chemicals. I may see if someone at my uni can.

Nurse sounds good. I actually just wanted to ask someones advice from the medical field on their view of how Finasteride affects Testosterone. I know that test is supposed to increase 10-15% (along with estrogen).. which is fine. But wanted to know if after prolonged use ( > 5 years +) if your test levels would still be up?

I want to (have to) start taking it now (24) but i don't want to be 33 and find that my hormonal profile is completely fucked. Bodybuilding for the last 8 years has kept me afloat mentally and i don't want to be taking something that will interfere with that, either now or further down the line.
 

EvilLocks

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It’s so strange, but I’ve never had an “itch”. @Pasbrillantebrunette @EvilLocks did you ever get the itch with hairloss?
Yes, unfortunately I have the itch, 5 years and counting. I almost have to laugh, as if going bald from 20 years old rapidly was not enough, I have to be reminded of it every waking second.
I do have periods/days where the itch is not as bad, but it is always there..
 

Georgie

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Yes, unfortunately I have the itch, 5 years and counting. I almost have to laugh, as if going bald from 20 years old rapidly was not enough, I have to be reminded of it every waking second.
I do have periods/days where the itch is not as bad, but it is always there..
Wtf why are we all so young?! I’m 25 in April. This is so f**king wrong!!
 

Georgie

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Nurse sounds good. I actually just wanted to ask someones advice from the medical field on their view of how Finasteride affects Testosterone. I know that test is supposed to increase 10-15% (along with estrogen).. which is fine. But wanted to know if after prolonged use ( > 5 years +) if your test levels would still be up?

I want to (have to) start taking it now (24) but i don't want to be 33 and find that my hormonal profile is completely fucked. Bodybuilding for the last 8 years has kept me afloat mentally and i don't want to be taking something that will interfere with that, either now or further down the line.
Well the thing is, everyone responds differently to these meds, and sadly there haven’t been any controlled studies for that long which examine the effects of fina and dutas on male hormones that I’m aware of. The basic idea of both drugs however, as you say, is to inhibit 5AR and therefore increase test and E levels. I think your body will probably remain at constantly elevated levels on a certain dose even over a prolonged period of time. The issue is more about how receptive your body is to hormones after that prolonged exposure to elevated levels. It becomes more likely that the fallout from ceasing hormone-altering medication after a number of years will have a large impact. It also becomes more likely that your body will find it difficult to return to a normal state, because it’s hormone receptors have become used to high levels, and therefore are “dulled” and unable to recognise your own hormones after time. You see it all the time with women who have been taking the pill for years. If you are otherwise healthy and have a good genetic profile for hormone health, it can take 6 months-1 year for your body to fully normalise coming off these drugs. Sometimes the damage can be lasting. In the end, it’s up to you. We always say that if you begin these drugs for hairloss, they are for life. No coming off unless the sides are unbearable. I hope that all helps.
 

Ollie

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Well the thing is, everyone responds differently to these meds, and sadly there haven’t been any controlled studies for that long which examine the effects of fina and dutas on male hormones that I’m aware of. The basic idea of both drugs however, as you say, is to inhibit 5AR and therefore increase test and E levels. I think your body will probably remain at constantly elevated levels on a certain dose even over a prolonged period of time. The issue is more about how receptive your body is to hormones after that prolonged exposure to elevated levels. It becomes more likely that the fallout from ceasing hormone-altering medication after a number of years will have a large impact. It also becomes more likely that your body will find it difficult to return to a normal state, because it’s hormone receptors have become used to high levels, and therefore are “dulled” and unable to recognise your own hormones after time. You see it all the time with women who have been taking the pill for years. If you are otherwise healthy and have a good genetic profile for hormone health, it can take 6 months-1 year for your body to fully normalise coming off these drugs. Sometimes the damage can be lasting. In the end, it’s up to you. We always say that if you begin these drugs for hairloss, they are for life. No coming off unless the sides are unbearable. I hope that all helps.

Thanks for the reply mate. It is actually f*****g scary the idea of having to adopt this medication and stay with it for life - its as though im 70 and being put on statins or something. Im currently using RU (200mg a day) and topical seti (300mg a day) - with 100% of my happiness in the hands of a bunch Italians (Fidia) to bring out something that i hope is as promised. I'll likely wait to see what Polichem's P-3074 data is like in may and if nothing decent is announced just start taking finasteride and living my life as a woman.

Hows your arsenal of treatments going for you Georgie ?
 

Georgie

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Thanks for the reply mate. It is actually f*****g scary the idea of having to adopt this medication and stay with it for life - its as though im 70 and being put on statins or something. Im currently using RU (200mg a day) and topical seti (300mg a day) - with 100% of my happiness in the hands of a bunch Italians (Fidia) to bring out something that i hope is as promised. I'll likely wait to see what Polichem's P-3074 data is like in may and if nothing decent is announced just start taking finasteride and living my life as a woman.

Hows your arsenal of treatments going for you Georgie ?
I think if you can find success using topicals only, that’s a great way to go. I’ve been on the pill for almost 3 years straight, and also avodart. If I even miss the right timing each day of taking these meds, I get bleeding, hair shedding in the days after, I drop a lot of fluid. I can tell you that systemic hormonal drugs become a prison. I am now stuck for life. Are you having luck with RU/Seti? I’ve heard the oral Seti is much more effective, but I can 100% see why you wouldn’t want to do that.

So far my arsenal of 0.5mg avodart, Diane35 the pill, minoxidil oral 3mg, 2mg/1ml daro, 2% niaciade, 2% carnitine in 5% minoxidil (4-5ml daily), 6ml stemoxydine daily, 1.5mm dermastamp once a week, a bunch of vitamins and alternative supplements (vitamin D, Curcumin, coq10, MSM, l-cysteine, iron, B vitamins, minerals)
Isn’t really doing anything. Still losing ground.
Just sticking it out. I’m looking at upping my topical minoxidil to 10% since I can’t go any higher orally.
 

Ollie

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I really feel for you dude, your situation sounds pretty helpless if you're on all that and not seeing any good progress. Lets hope the whole stem cell type technologies pull through and provide some solace - with that being said hows the hair on the sides and back of your head ? I thought you had quite low water. I came across a couple of your pictures of you and your physique looked crazy dry - wasn't sure if you were even competing or something.

RU seemed to be pretty good for 4 months or so where i noticed thickening of minaturised hairs around my hairline which was nice as i thought it was demonstrating at least maintenance but the last few weeks i've been shedding and diffusing pretty heavily on top. Only been on Seti for a couple weeks - i'd love to be taking 2 grams a day orally but being in my last year of Uni i don't exactly have 3k a year to piss away on a drug from some random Chinese lab. The fact that only half of oral dosing gets absorbed into the body (for the whole body) makes me wonder if a 500mg dose in a really good vehicle applied topically to the scalp would be more effective..

Oh and like you i was doing 1.5mm wounding once a week but i've since stopped as i couldn't but help feel i was getting some shock loss.. might have been going at it a bit hard o_O
 
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Georgie

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Shedding seems to be getting worse again
 

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Georgie

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I really feel for you dude, your situation sounds pretty helpless if you're on all that and not seeing any good progress. Lets hope the whole stem cell type technologies pull through and provide some solace - with that being said hows the hair on the sides and back of your head ? I thought you had quite low water. I came across a couple of your pictures of you and your physique looked crazy dry - wasn't sure if you were even competing or something.

RU seemed to be pretty good for 4 months or so where i noticed thickening of minaturised hairs around my hairline which was nice as i thought it was demonstrating at least maintenance but the last few weeks i've been shedding and diffusing pretty heavily on top. Only been on Seti for a couple weeks - i'd love to be taking 2 grams a day orally but being in my last year of Uni i don't exactly have 3k a year to piss away on a drug from some random Chinese lab. The fact that only half of oral dosing gets absorbed into the body (for the whole body) makes me wonder if a 500mg dose in a really good vehicle applied topically to the scalp would be more effective..

Oh and like you i was doing 1.5mm wounding once a week but i've since stopped as i couldn't but help feel i was getting some shock loss.. might have been going at it a bit hard o_O
Yeah I feel like I’m kind of doomed. It’s pretty bullshit. I feel like Tsuji is the last hope and I’ll probably never have access to it.

My water retention goes up and down. I’ve gained a fair bit of weight since 2016 where I was about 50kg I’m now 56-57kg. At the moment because I am on avodart and the pill I’m pretty watery, not lean at all. Actually I’ve gained a bit of fat which is annoying but not the worst thing.

The sides and back of my head are currently not good because I am receding all the way around my head. I have retrograde, but also diffuse Androgenetic Alopecia with emphasis on my tonsure in a female pattern style. It’s pretty crap to have all that to fight against. Sadly nothing bar oral minoxidil seems to work, and that only works to a limited degree.

I’ve heard that anything below 2g of Seti is usuelss, particularly if it’s topical. I know it’s kind of experimental and dangerous, but have you considered TM? It’s cheaper and stronger, but hasn’t been tested on humans. There are people on the forum taking it though. Hasn’t shown a whole lot of success thus far.

Are you on daro? Maybe you could try increasing your RU dose if you are finding it’s effectiveness is wearing off.
 

peewee

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Daro setback for me. Have been shedding the last few days, in my weak spot, the temples. Sucks. Keep going and hope for the best.
 

whatevr

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My first application yesterday. Feeling nothing. Thought I had some dry eyes but it turned out to be placebo. Morning wood normally this morning.

Might as well be baking soda. I mixed 6-7 mg into 10 ml and applied close to 3 mL. Next batch will be 10 mg / 10 mL.
 

Georgie

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My first application yesterday. Feeling nothing. Thought I had some dry eyes but it turned out to be placebo. Morning wood normally this morning.

Might as well be baking soda. I mixed 6-7 mg into 10 ml and applied close to 3 mL. Next batch will be 10 mg / 10 mL.
Good luck m80. May the terminal follicle Jesus Buddha allah flying spaghettini monster messiah be with you.
 

Georgie

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are you on seti? if so which type? and where from?
I’m not, but quite a few guys are. I believe they get it from either Zhechem or Lyphar on alibaba. Otherwise there are people also trialling TM but that’s highly experimental and potentially very unsafe.
 

Georgie

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Also today my shedding is at its highest again. Around 140 hairs. I upped my daro dose a few days ago, not sure if that has anything to do with it.
 
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