Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[KSA]

Well, first of all, thank you very much for writing this - it was comprehensive and educational. I will surely give Finasteride more time. I'm being desparate because this is the time (I'm 19) when I'm in college, having friends, and ofcourse, I wouldn't deny that if I get even 70% of my density (it should be roughly 50% atm) back, I would have better chances in dating world. I have to use caboki to avoid scalp see-through.

But I've not read a single success story of person with DUPA - many have come here, posted and now aren't found here. Also, there's no way to ensure that DUPA is caused by androgens - there simply isn't enough information on it.
I was diagnosed deficient in vit12 (lill deficiency) and vitD, but taking them for 3 months has done absolutely zilch for me; and this compels me to believe that I've Androgenetic Alopecia. Is there any test to ascertain this?

You must remember that most hair loss sufferers don’t seek out forums to share their stories, and from that little pool you’re only dealing with a tiny handful of those who are vocal about their experiences. A lot of the information shared on here is also flat-out wrong, and even when it’s right - it may not apply to you. AND a lot of studies available online are just the tip of the ice-berg. The best person to speak to is a dermatologist/endocrinologist who treats hair loss because they have experience with patient responses. Also, you are the best judge of your own experience - always take pictures. If you’re in/ around NYC, I would be happy to DM you my doctors’ details.

I have diffuse pattern alopecia and I responded to Finasteride, and I also responded to Flutamide. I put my 50-something dad with DPA on Finasteride 1mg on alternate days for 8 months, and he’s regrown so much, it’s offensive to me.
It’s just a genetic pattern. Most women have a diffuse pattern as opposed to recession.

Not that you should purchase any of their products because they sell expensive compound minoxidils (that clearly work) but this one clinic in London called The Belgravia Center posts hundreds of before and after pictures of hair regrowth on just the big 2. Several patients there have diffuse loss and if it would help you to see others’ success to in order to visualise your own, that would be a good resource.

And there is a way to check for androgenic influence on hair - it’s miniaturisation. A good dermat will have a trichogram microscope to check. You can get one for yourself on Amazon and plug it to your laptop although I discourage you from getting too fixated on details because these exercises fuel dysmorphia and dysphoria. Hopefully you’re not a Virgo like myself

I had low Vitamin D3 and low Iron - I’ve been taking supplements since January - while it has not affected my hair yet, to my knowledge - who knows it may perhaps influence the next cycle. You just want to ensure that when your hair plans to revive from dormancy - its robust and healthy. Also a big underrated practice is scalp hygiene!

I understand your concern - remember patience is key, and you could be in a better place at 21. I too had hair loss at your age and I was SO self conscious that I always wore a hat, it was very taxing. With that said, literally nobody else noticed my hair loss, and if they did, it didn’t stop them from dating me.

Xx

 

[I'mme]

You must remember that most hair loss sufferers don’t seek out forums to share their stories, and from that little pool you’re only dealing with a tiny handful of those who are vocal about their experiences. A lot of the information shared on here is also flat-out wrong, and even when it’s right - it may not apply to you. AND a lot of studies available online are just the tip of the ice-berg. The best person to speak to is a dermatologist/endocrinologist who treats hair loss because they have experience with patient responses. Also, you are the best judge of your own experience - always take pictures. If you’re in/ around NYC, I would be happy to DM you my doctors’ details.

I have diffuse pattern alopecia and I responded to Finasteride, and I also responded to Flutamide. I put my 50-something dad with DPA on Finasteride 1mg on alternate days for 8 months, and he’s regrown so much, it’s offensive to me.
It’s just a genetic pattern. Most women have a diffuse pattern as opposed to recession.

Not that you should purchase any of their products because they sell expensive compound minoxidils (that clearly work) but this one clinic in London called The Belgravia Center posts hundreds of before and after pictures of hair regrowth on just the big 2. Several patients there have diffuse loss and if it would help ye others’ success to in order to visualise your own, that would be a good resource.

And there is a way to check for androgenic influence on hair - it’s miniaturisation. A good dermat will have a trichogram microscope to check. You can get one for yourself on Amazon and plug it to your laptop although I discourage you from getting too fixated on details because these exercises fuel dysmorphia and dysphoria. Hopefully you’re not a Virgo like myself

I had low Vitamin D3 and low Iron - I’ve been taking supplements since January - while it has not affected my hair yet, to my knowledge - who knows it may perhaps influence the next cycle. You just want to ensure that when your hair plans to revive from dormancy - its robust and healthy. Also a big underrated practice is scalp hygiene!

I understand your concern - remember patience is key, and you could be in a better place at 21. I too had hair loss at your age and I was SO self conscious that I always wore a hat, it was very taxing. With that said, literally nobody else noticed my hair loss, and if they did, it didn’t stop them from dating me.

Xx

I completely agree. On reddit, about 70% of hair loss sufferers report positive experience on Finasteride. I also can't go bridge's way - in fact, I'll never be able to - for I'm most comfortable being a man. [but I would fking obviously like to have hair - it just take me from 9/8 to 4 lol]

I live in Delhi, India.

I have been to dermatologist even in the recent months - my dermato genuinely thinks THAT I'm losing hair because of vitD deficiency. While I'm not disputing that, but I just can't accept that vitD def. Can cause me hair loss for f*****g 4+ years. And now that I'm supplementing with 60000iu and drinking 1.5Lfc milk (also to gain weight and get protein), things aren't better. He has peddled me that typical bullshit - losing 100 hairs a day is normal.

Why endocrinologist though? (I would prefer endo if they can tell me I've Androgenetic Alopecia, because most dermatos here in Delhi straight up ask you to have mesotherapy/prp so that they can earn f*cking loads of money)

 

[KSA]

I completely agree. On reddit, about 70% of hair loss sufferers report positive experience on Finasteride. I also can't go bridge's way - in fact, I'll never be able to - for I'm most comfortable being a man. [but I would fking obviously like to have hair - it just take me from 9/8 to 4 lol]

I live in Delhi, India.

I have been to dermatologist even in the recent months - my dermato genuinely thinks THAT I'm losing hair because of vitD deficiency. While I'm not disputing that, but I just can't accept that vitD def. Can cause me hair loss for f*****g 4+ years. And now that I'm supplementing with 60000iu and drinking 1.5Lfc milk (also to gain weight and get protein), things aren't better. He has peddled me that typical bullshit - losing 100 hairs a day is normal.

Why endocrinologist though? (I would prefer endo if they can tell me I've Androgenetic Alopecia, because most dermatos here in Delhi straight up ask you to have mesotherapy/prp so that they can earn f*cking loads of money)

Sounds like your dermat isn’t really on top of it. I’ve tried PRP - I attributed success to it, but that could have also been Flutamide. I’m going to give it another shot so tbd. In either case, minoxidil and PRP do not address androgens, which we know play a role here. Because anti-androgens are hormonal, it’s good to talk to an endocrinologist. Sounds like you need a new dermatologist - I recommend one who specialises in hair regrowth. I can recommend one of the doctor’s I’ve visited in Bombay if that helps. Not a scammer at all. You’re going to be fine!
Xxx

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

It’s tough to wean off Flutamide because you come off to very elevated androgens. If I titrated my dose down to 350mg instead of 500mg, I would start breakout all over my back. I didn’t have significant acne since I was 16, but on Flutamide, every time I tried to slowly wean off - I would flare up into horrible cystic acne. There was a time in June last year when I went back on Flutamide for 3-5 days because I was frustrated with Spironolactone and I remember my testosterone (free and total) and DHT shot up instantly by almost 200 ng/dl. While this means it was blocking the androgens from their receptor for certain, remember that if and when do you try to wean off, you do have to deal with that level so I do not advise it.
Also, you're very young and I highly doubt you need to jump onto a high unsustainable regimen like a non-steroidal AA. Remember, Androgenetic Alopecia is miniaturization of follicles - they don't just die when they shed out. This whole thread and @bridgeburn 's success is a testament to that. Good luck.


That isn't entirely true. Androgenetic Alopecia is in dialogue with both genetic sensitivity and hormone levels. Spironolactone being comparatively weaker than Flutamide can be very impactful for those whose androgen sensitivity is not too high or those whose androgens were not too elevated in the first place. spironolactone also takes about 2 months to "kick in" really, but it definitely works for FPHL. 3 women I am extremely close to - one being my dermat, have had phenomenal success with spironolactone for hair loss and have no desire to try Flutamide (mind you not one of them took more than 100mg and one of them didn't even use Minoxidil).
I don't recommend Flutamide as a first line of therapy, although I hate the diuretic effect of spironolactone.
Also with cis-women, it's a bit different from what I have understood from my doctors - spironolactone and Flutamide can lead to a bit of estrogen dominance, and if you're on an OCP - your hormonal levels can be altered and managed with HRT and you can actually wean off your hair loss drugs unlike the case with men.

Did you get gyno on flutamide? And what about the muscles loss?

 

[KSA]

Did you get gyno on flutamide? And what about the muscles loss?

Yes to both. It’s really not your first option IF you do not want to deal with those. I would honestly try CPA

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Yes to both. It’s really not your first option IF you do not want to deal with those. I would honestly try CPA

I had success with dutasteride in treating my hair loss for the last eight years. I am 28 years old now. I am on spironolactone 400 mg for the Last eight months. It has slowed down my hair loss but no regrowth. spironolactone caused me to lose muscles mass, mild gyno, and slight feminisation on my face. I don't want to feminise myself further. What shall I do now? I do take oral minoxidil.

 

[I'mme]

Sounds like your dermat isn’t really on top of it. I’ve tried PRP - I attributed success to it, but that could have also been Flutamide. I’m going to give it another shot so tbd. In either case, minoxidil and PRP do not address androgens, which we know play a role here. Because anti-androgens are hormonal, it’s good to talk to an endocrinologist. Sounds like you need a new dermatologist - I recommend one who specialises in hair regrowth. I can recommend one of the doctor’s I’ve visited in Bombay if that helps. Not a scammer at all. You’re going to be fine!
Xxx

Yes, I'll look for another dermatologist.
I will have to look in Delhi itself as I'm juggling b/w college (DU) and coaching (CA) - I've not been to home for more than 10 months now, so Mumbai is not an option. You can give prp a shot but I don't think it's going to do much; even if it does flushing that much money doesn't sound prudent. But that's just my opinion - take it with a pinch of salt.

On an another note, I'm in third week now with Hairmax forte which comprises of Minoxidil (works mysteriously), tretinoin (enhances minoxidil absorption and reduces pgd2) and hydrocortisone (enhances absorption and increases aromatase), and I can see new hair strands when I oil my hair as well as some fallen hairs are also not of natural size. I don't know if it's fina because it's only been two weeks.

 

[Ikarus]

Not that you should purchase any of their products because they sell expensive compound minoxidils (that clearly work) but this one clinic in London called The Belgravia Center posts hundreds of before and after pictures of hair regrowth on just the big 2. Several patients there have diffuse loss and if it would help you to see others’ success to in order to visualise your own, that would be a good resource.

I don't agree with this whatsoever. I messaged The Belgravia Centre, and I showed them an image of someone who is an NW0 with significant density and they told me that I had androgenic alopecia and began shoving what they are selling down my throat. In fact, they wouldn't stop calling me and e-mailing me to try to remind me that I am suffering from androgenic alopecia. You have to remember that the results from finasteride and topical minoxidil aren't sustainable when it comes to long-term, whilst balding at such a young age. Those great results which they showcase will most likely reach a dead end, but they have minoxidil dependance and have to stick to it.

 

[Guido]

You must remember that most hair loss sufferers don’t seek out forums to share their stories, and from that little pool you’re only dealing with a tiny handful of those who are vocal about their experiences. A lot of the information shared on here is also flat-out wrong, and even when it’s right - it may not apply to you. AND a lot of studies available online are just the tip of the ice-berg. The best person to speak to is a dermatologist/endocrinologist who treats hair loss because they have experience with patient responses. Also, you are the best judge of your own experience - always take pictures. If you’re in/ around NYC, I would be happy to DM you my doctors’ details.

I have diffuse pattern alopecia and I responded to Finasteride, and I also responded to Flutamide. I put my 50-something dad with DPA on Finasteride 1mg on alternate days for 8 months, and he’s regrown so much, it’s offensive to me.
It’s just a genetic pattern. Most women have a diffuse pattern as opposed to recession.

Not that you should purchase any of their products because they sell expensive compound minoxidils (that clearly work) but this one clinic in London called The Belgravia Center posts hundreds of before and after pictures of hair regrowth on just the big 2. Several patients there have diffuse loss and if it would help you to see others’ success to in order to visualise your own, that would be a good resource.

And there is a way to check for androgenic influence on hair - it’s miniaturisation. A good dermat will have a trichogram microscope to check. You can get one for yourself on Amazon and plug it to your laptop although I discourage you from getting too fixated on details because these exercises fuel dysmorphia and dysphoria. Hopefully you’re not a Virgo like myself

I had low Vitamin D3 and low Iron - I’ve been taking supplements since January - while it has not affected my hair yet, to my knowledge - who knows it may perhaps influence the next cycle. You just want to ensure that when your hair plans to revive from dormancy - its robust and healthy. Also a big underrated practice is scalp hygiene!

I understand your concern - remember patience is key, and you could be in a better place at 21. I too had hair loss at your age and I was SO self conscious that I always wore a hat, it was very taxing. With that said, literally nobody else noticed my hair loss, and if they did, it didn’t stop them from dating me.

Xx

hi what was the dose of flutamide that worked?

 

[LEXUS]

Can testes produce estradiol?

Yes of course. But usually in small quantities.

 

[LEXUS]

Hello everyone!

And you don't have gyno and other sides?

Of course I have a gyno. but small. I don't take anything against gyno. anti-gyno drugs can damage hair. you can not be afraid for gyno. on hrt he cannot grow big. some have gyno more than me even though they don't use hrt. so I am not at all afraid of gyno. he is small and big will never be.

 

[LEXUS]

Women don’t have testicles...

women do not make sense to take CPA. there is no reason for a neutered man to take CPA. only spironolactone. testosterone in men without eggs is produced only in the adrenal glands.

 

[I'mme]

Of course I have a gyno. but small. I don't take anything against gyno. anti-gyno drugs can damage hair. you can not be afraid for gyno. on hrt he cannot grow big. some have gyno more than me even though they don't use hrt. so I am not at all afraid of gyno. he is small and big will never be.

Makes sense.

How has been your progress? If possible, please upload before and after photos.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

The problem is that 70% of testosterone is produced in the testicles. and 30% of testosterone is produced in the adrenal glands. Cyproterone turns off only the testicles. and spironolactone turns off only the adrenal glands. This is all known.

I'm a bit confused how spriro can be as effective whilst only limiting adrenal glands if, like you say, that only accounts for 30% of testosterone production. I take 100mg or spironolactone/day and my total testosterone has hovered around 10 ng/dl on subsequent blood tests. Considering typical average testerone levels are close to 600 ng/dl, I don't know how I can have 60 times lower testosterone, on average, if I'm only blocking 30% of adrenal production. Also, why would spironolactone also tank your sperm and potentially cause testicular atrophy over time if it doesn't affect testicular adrogens?

 

[itchymadscalp]

women do not make sense to take CPA. there is no reason for a neutered man to take CPA. only spironolactone. testosterone in men without eggs is produced only in the adrenal glands.

Can you give us multiple sources for your claim ?
Sorry but it didn't make sense at all. Lot of trans MTF take spironolactone and it lowers their testosterone, their balls produce less testosterone, not only the adrenal glands.

 

[Derelict]

Gyno is getting worse on spironolactone, especially my right side, wondering if cutting down to 100mg a day might be helpful with less sides. Didn't think gyno would bother me as much as it does...but it does lol. btw i have lost a stone since starting spironolactone.

 

[I'mme]

Gyno is getting worse on spironolactone, especially my right side, wondering if cutting down to 100mg a day might be helpful with less sides. Didn't think gyno would bother me as much as it does...but it does lol. btw i have lost a stone since starting spironolactone.

Why spironolactone? Why not some nuclear anti-androgen like bicalutamide? Chances of gyno at 50mg are about 36%. Gyno from bical generally goes away either by itself or with a short course of raloxifene - that's what Ein experience was.

 

[Derelict]

Why spironolactone? Why not some nuclear anti-androgen like bicalutamide? Chances of gyno at 50mg are about 36%. Gyno from bical generally goes away either by itself or with a short course of raloxifene - that's what Ein experience was.

I want to try spironolactone before anything else, plus it's a diuretic which helps with water retention from the 20mg of oral minoxidil i take. If i see no results in 6 months to a year i will think about using something else.

 

[I'mme]

I want to try spironolactone before anything else, plus it's a diuretic which helps with water retention from the 20mg of oral minoxidil i take. If i see no results in 6 months to a year i will think about using something else.

Spirono is weak - pretty weak. 20mg minoxidil is amazing, you're looking at something better in terms of hair, I must say.

Even 25mg (or even 12.5mg) of bicalutamide would be great at blocking ARs with 100% guarantee of no sides except about 9% chances of gyno. It should also raise test by about 200% and estrogen by about 300%, so probability of getting feminizing sides (other than gyno) reduces.

 

[Ikarus]

Gyno is getting worse on spironolactone, especially my right side, wondering if cutting down to 100mg a day might be helpful with less sides. Didn't think gyno would bother me as much as it does...but it does lol. btw i have lost a stone since starting spironolactone.

Cutting your dose will result in undesirable results, especially with such a weak anti-androgen. It has to be used at higher doses to see results, unless it’s combined with estradiol. I think you will be better off using bicalutamide at a dose of 25MG/day, since that has a lesser chance of gynecomastia compared to 100MG/day of spironolactone. And, the effects of it being a diuretic will eventually start to have a toll on you. When Georgie used spironolactone, she lost a worrisome amount of weight and that could happen to you considering you have lost a stone so far.