Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Member 139756]

@EmmaS
Black powder, that’s what I am planning for me, in 3 years if no regrowth and pain relief.

But you shouldn’t kill yourself yet. How long have you been on meds?

What is black powder in this context? Are you suggesting that I make a make-shift gun to kill myself with. Is that easy?

On DHT meds and light HRT since April 2018, on heavy duty HRT since Dec 2018. Very heavy duty. So I have been on a regimen for almost 18 months.

In answer to later questions about how old I am and the possibility of waiting til I am thirty. I will be thirty early next year.

On the topic of a children's hospital, I have considered that. Imagine how much better the world would have been if I had just killed myself at the outset and left the money to a charity like a children's hospital, instead of wasting it futilely on myself. Well, not much better in the grand scheme of the world, but still better for more people. That's another reason I consider killing myself. I still have some money to donate instead of spend on hair.

 

[itchymadscalp]

What is black powder in this context? Are you suggesting that I make a make-shift gun to kill myself with. Is that easy?

On DHT meds and light HRT since April 2018, on heavy duty HRT since Dec 2018. Very heavy duty. So I have been on a regimen for almost 18 months.

In answer to later questions about how old I am and the possibility of waiting til I am thirty. I will be thirty early next year.

On the topic of a children's hospital, I have considered that. Imagine how much better the world would have been if I had just killed myself at the outset and left the money to a charity like a children's hospital, instead of wasting it futilely on myself. Well, not much better in the grand scheme of the world, but still better for more people. That's another reason I consider killing myself. I still have some money to donate instead of spend on hair.

A joke. No I told you that you should forget about killing yourself.

Keep going with your regimen, after some time it will certainly work. Puberty is a long process, can take 10 years, you're having a second puberty. Be patient.
I also want to kill myself right now, but I refrain myself for killing me, even if I have a black powder gun. And thinking about the "big void", the non-existence, being dead... it's a bit scary. Especially where life can still bring some joy.
Go see children in hospital, aks if you can help, if there is an helping group for children. If your life means nothing to you, maybe it can mean something to others.

 

[Member 139756]

Keep going with your regimen, after some time it will certainly work. Puberty is a long process, can take 10 years, you're having a second puberty. Be patient.

Is that really true though? I thought that once your hair has been dead for too long then it's gone for good (sparing some unreleased neogenesis device in the far future).

And my hair has been gone a long time.

I actually used to do a lot of charity work, whilst keeping my head down as somebody not transitioning. A lot of it. I rationalised not transitioning, in part, by the good I could do by putting my efforts into helping others instead, until I couldn't take it any more and started seriously wanting to kill myself.

Those feelings went away as I started transitioning, and had hope of hair recovery, but returned as the hope drained away.

Long story short, I don't think charity work again, for another six years, is going to make me not want to kill myself. I was already doing it and wanted to die, and at any rate as I said above I can just kill myself and donate the money to a charity (since I have no family). More good than me being alive.

 

[I'mme]

You've got a black powder gun ? Ok. But not a good idea, at least if you have white walls.

Seriously just give it time. Since I started my regimen, 2 years ago, I've been losing my hair ... lost 70% of my hair on the top, and having a lot of pain (scalp, brain, pelvic, eyes, ...) but I won't give up tomorrow or in 6 months.
You never know what's going to happen. I don't know how old you are but wait until you're 30 or maybe, why not, 40. I'm not even kidding. I was in really bad shape some years ago ... Ok I'm not good yet, but I have found some pleasure in life (it's not hurting kitten I swear).
Life is not just about apparence. Visit an hospital of children, you will feel lucky.

Assholic Mofu, I was talking about advice. Improve you comprehension skills.

 

[I'mme]

Is that really true though? I thought that once your hair has been dead for too long then it's gone for good (sparing some unreleased neogenesis device in the far future).

And my hair has been gone a long time.

I actually used to do a lot of charity work, whilst keeping my head down as somebody not transitioning. A lot of it. I rationalised not transitioning, in part, by the good I could do by putting my efforts into helping others instead, until I couldn't take it any more and started seriously wanting to kill myself.

Those feelings went away as I started transitioning, and had hope of hair recovery, but returned as the hope drained away.

Long story short, I don't think charity work again, for another six years, is going to make me not want to kill myself. I was already doing it and wanted to die, and at any rate as I said above I can just kill myself and donate the money to a charity (since I have no family). More good than me being alive.

Stemoxydine can generate new hair follicles. You can regrow hair even when you're 70 or 90.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

What is black powder in this context?
On DHT meds and light HRT since April 2018, on heavy duty HRT since Dec 2018. Very heavy duty. So I have been on a regimen for almost 18 months.

Which forms of estrogen have you been on/are currently on? Pills, injections?

 

[Member 139756]

Stemoxydine can generate new hair follicles. You can regrow hair even when you're 70 or 90.

Tried it.

Dropped in nearly a year ago, but I did try it. I still have my last bottle from a year ago.

I was using it once every day around lunchtime, just lathering it over my scalp. Any better way of doing it?

Also, of it's useful why does nobody ever talk about it on this forum?

 

[Member 139756]

I really don't know ... see OP ... recovering his hair dead for a long time.

You can do some charity work in pets rescue, that's fun. No ?
My body is covered with scars, my pain is very often unbearable, I have a genetic disease that doesnt sound good for me, I lost almost all my hair and other problems ... I should kill myself ?
Ok, we are react differently to pain. But really, life can be awesome, even for you with a wig. I wont find answers for you, because I dont know to do that. But I hope you will find your way or someone. There's almost always hope.

Have you tried oral minoxidil ?

How long have you been on HRT exactly ?

One of the places I worked was an animal rescue shelter.

I appreciate that the idea of charity is good and noble advice, but I spent every year since I was 18 living for somebody else's whether that was family or charity. And it drained me. Only transitioning gave me some glimmer of hope - I should have done it earlier, since I knew from childhood.

Of courses, if I get my hair back then I would love to go back to charity work with a renewed sense of self. But if that's what I have to live for by itself, I can't do that anymore.

I feel you about the scars. I also have a lot of them, all over, and some still hurt despite being over 20 years old (especially over my right arm). That sucks ***. Yours sounds far worse than mine thought, being genetic and not gained.

I don't want you to kill yourself, of course. But I am not going to admonish you for doing so if you feel that's best for you. And right now, feeling as I do and with it not getting any better for seven months, I don't wanna live if I can't find a fix.

Yeah, I tried oral minoxidil for months. I noticed no hair growth on the head but more hair growth in the face. Also, it was eating my money like crazy to take it in the doses recommended here.

I have been on HRT for almost eighteen months (so from April 2018,albeit at low doses of oestradiol + high dose DHT blockers that were not achieving female ranges until Dec 2019).

 

[Member 139756]

Which forms of estrogen have you been on/are currently on? Pills, injections?

First pills for a month, then patches for seven months, then injections for eight months.

A UK Doctor that I saw yesterday wants me to swap to transdermal gel, rather than use my imported injections (which are real, as they made my oestrogen serum level ~1600 - it was 1915 pmol/L on May 1st this year, five days after my most recent injection).

 

[Member 139756]

Work for an LGBTQ... organisation ? You will meet a lot of people like you, probably with your issues (not getting hair back on HRT).
Maybe you will find your fixe there ...

For Minoxidil, drink liquid minoxidil 0.1-0.3ml. But if it didn't work, forget about it.

I've been on HRT longer than you ah ah. And you're already talking about giving up ? No way ! Still too soon to say good bye to life. Suffer some more years, in the end you will be happy, because HRT will be starting to work for you. Seriously 18 months its nothing.

I did work for a trans youth organization. It actually made me feel worse because I was the only 20 something trans woman there with such advanced hair loss (and people complaining about their nails not being pretty enough whilst my hair was falling out was just depressing).

I generally stay away from other trans people as a result, because they usually (not always) have a much easier time than me (keeping in mind that whilst my hair and biology fails me, my parents were telling me that they want me dead).

I am willing to give drinking minoxidil a chance, since it will be a lot cheaper and a lot less stressful than the tablets (which are slow and risky to source + tended to dissolve in my mouth faster than I could swallow at the sizes I needed to cut them).

I know it'll increase facial hair growth, but I will risk that IF it has a good chance of working and I can sustain the costs.

I could afford to drink 2ml daily whilst still saving money over the tablets. Better not do it until after my surgery next week though.

Seriously, I am happy to wait *if* it'll work. Why are you so confident that it will?

 

[Member 139756]

high E2 needs high Progesterone (pregnant woman has both very high)

i had a trial episode from 1.1.19 - 30.6.19 // every evening 100mg P4 + 2x10 drops of E2(1 hub ~ 0,75 mg E2 every day)

my hair is now thicker
but the recreeding hairline is worst



too much E2 alone is bad for a healthy hairgrow

even the thyroid problems too
much E2 is much TBH and a low free T3 = hair thins out/hairloss unpatterned

By the way, I am not ignoring this line of enquiry.

I am trying to get a Doctor that I saw yesterday to call me back re. progesterone, as I have never taken any of it.

Do you really think this might make difference to me?

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

First pills for a month, then patches for seven months, then injections for eight months.

A UK Doctor that I saw yesterday wants me to swap to transdermal gel, rather than use my imported injections (which are real, as they made my oestrogen serum level ~1600 - it was 1915 pmol/L on May 1st this year, five days after my most recent injection).

I would caution that those levels are potentially too high. I've been on both sublingual pills and injections. My levels on pills were significantly lower when I initially started pills (130pg/ml or around 500pmol/L) than when I first switched to injections (approx 500pg/ml or 1800pmol/L), but I noticed more effects including hair growth. My estrone levels were completely out of control on pills though, which is why I switched to injections. I've lowered my injection dosage since, however, and my estradiol level is now more in more preferred female range (250pg/ml or 917pmol/L).

I know there are also case studies showing that too high of E among transgender patients can result in stunted breast growth. Similarly too high levels have been shown to prematurely cause breast bud fusion in adolescent females. Obviously breasts are different from hair, but I think there's still a propensity for adverse effects being out of range.

Additionally during pregnancy, while estradiol levels increase so do progesterone levels. And likewise, hair is typically lush during this time. But again, here's the difference. In the last stage of pregnancy, progesterone plummets, helping to induce labor. Estradiol levels, however, remain high even long after pregnancy. Yet women often experience significant postpartum hair loss whilst having high estradiol but low progesterone.

 

[I'mme]

Tried it.

Dropped in nearly a year ago, but I did try it. I still have my last bottle from a year ago.

I was using it once every day around lunchtime, just lathering it over my scalp. Any better way of doing it?

Also, of it's useful why does nobody ever talk about it on this forum?

Most people mix it with minoxidil. It is not bragged about much since it alone can't do anything. And if those folks got results, they would rather allot in to minoxidil.

Re your next reply to itchy, I've not seen a single positive results with high dose DHT blockers. Moreover there's no single study that shows that reducing DHT levels to 0 would eliminate male pattern baldness/Androgenetic Alopecia completely.
There have been however studies going as far to state that levels of T and DHT doesn't matter much. Even in some decreasing/reducing T levels caused hair loss and T cream regrew them. Don't laugh here - I'm simply saying what those studies concluded.
Some studies I find interesting say that it's the sensitivity of/to receptors that matter, irrespective of levels of androgens. If you reduce them to an abnormal level the receptors themselves are upregulates. Many of this thread think that if they plummet T and DHT levels, there would be nothing for receptors to bind to and that they've found "the cure", which is simply a myth. (I will complete this text when I get time.)

 

[bridgeburn]

Estradiol levels, however, remain high even long after pregnancy.

I think they both drop

"Estrogen and progesterone levels decline dramatically after you give birth. In fact, hormone levels return to their pre-pregnancy levels within 24 hours after giving birth. Your body dials down estrogen further while you’re nursing because estrogen can interfere with milk production."

https://www.healthline.com/health/postpartum-vaginal-dryness#postpartum-thyroiditis

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

I think they both drop

"Estrogen and progesterone levels decline dramatically after you give birth. In fact, hormone levels return to their pre-pregnancy levels within 24 hours after giving birth. Your body dials down estrogen further while you’re nursing because estrogen can interfere with milk production."

https://www.healthline.com/health/postpartum-vaginal-dryness#postpartum-thyroiditis

You may be correct. Though I've read conflicting info, including that while they both drop, estrogen can stay elevated for 6-8 weeks.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm not sure what this means exactly, but it might be that estradiol and progesterone are synergistic in terms of hair:

"The association of ER and growth factor receptors including their second messengers has been widely accepted. Just a few important genes regulated by ERs, which also are recognized for their involvement in hair growth control, are listed here as examples: progesterone receptor, EGFR, several growth factors like IGF-I, TGF-α and TGF-β, cathepsin D, and several protooncogenes (e.g., c-fos, c-myc, and c-jun), as well as an array of heat shock proteins (295–297). Some of these factors are capable of nonclassical ER activation through modifications such as phosphorylation (298)."

" Candidates of estrogen target genes with relevance to pilosebaceous biology that are activated without ERE promoter include IGF-I, collagenase, EGF, EGFR, and cyclin D1 (261, 263). Instead, progesterone receptor, prolactin, and lactoferrin are examples of relevant target genes in the pilosebaceous unit with consensus EREs (263–265)."

 

[bridgeburn]

You may be correct. Though I keep reading conflicting info, including that while they both drop, estrogen can stay elevated for 6-8 weeks.

probably P drops towards the end of pregnancy then the estrogen dominance stimulates labor and the E drops (perhaps more gradually) after labor.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

I know this will fall on deaf ears for the most part, as I know from the last several pages that many of you have no compassion for trans people (or "transgenders" as you often call us).

I am reduced to setting a date in which to kill myself. It will be six months after my next and probably final possible FUT hair transplant, so February 2020.

I would do it now, but I might as well suffer through these next few months on the hope that the surgery does enough good as the surgeons tell me it will (though, burned once by another clinic, I no longer trust surgeons).

My hair is f*****g awful.
So thin all over the top, especially on the crown and hairline.

I have been told to stop taking so much oestrogen as I have oestrogen levels beyond that of a pregnant woman. I am also going to be moved onto a testosterone blocking implant to block every last bit of testosterone for a few years (even though I have virtually none anyway - the Doctor says she has seen physically castrated trans women with higher testosterone than me), so please don't suggest bica or more oestrogen because I am already so far ahead of all of you on those fronts.

Any other suggestions?
Minoxidil just makes my head burn. And I noticed nothing but faster body and face hair growth with oral minoxidil which pushes me towards suicide for different reasons anyway.

I am so tired of being told that I have a "great ***, feminine hips, soft face, soft voice, big lips" etc when none of that matters. As soon as I walk around London with my ***, hips, face, and lips still all wearing make-up and female clothes with pronounced breasts, if I am not wearing my wig (as I am not ahead of surgery next week) then I am called "sir".

Wigs are painful and life limiting. I can't exercise in them, I can't sleep in them, and it is awkward as f*** when their dislodged during sex. I can't go back to just relying on wigs after being tricked into spending £20k on hair treatments and surgery.

I bought concealing fibres to help me get through this pre surgery (and post surgery) wigless period, but apparently they are not great for my seborrheic dermatitis. Yay!

My hair seems to be falling out with vengeance now. It's hard to say whether that has made any cosmetic difference, though looking at my washed hair in the mirror and seeing gaps has left me to suspect that it has got worse compared to one month ago. I showered with baby shampoo last night and the hair catcher was filled with a large clump of the stuff. I gently combed afterwards for my seborrheic dermatitis, with a wide toothed afro comb and it was still covered in hairs. I look at my pillow this morning and it is covered in hairs.

I don't want to live like this.
I don't see any man wanting to settle down with me like this and start a family, and I don't see myself as being a responsible mother if I considered adopting a child anyway whilst feeling this suicidal. Also, my family hate me for being trans so it doesn't hurt them if I did. My friends will no doubt be pissed, but I can't live purely because I don't want them to feel bad.

I can't live with the guilt that I caused this by not transitioning soon enough despite knowing I was always trans, or the guilt that I could have tried s glued hair system if only I hadn't had transplant surgery (I now have too much hair for that, apparently). I have tried a weave. It was super expensive and painful and I hated it anyway.

So, I don't really see that much point in living with my deck as it stands.

So -- Feb 2020, evaluate, jump from suspension bridge (I would put a gun in my mouth, but guns are hard to come by in this country - generally a great thing, btw).

Any last advice?

It is merely a manifestation of depression. You better treat it. Life is much more than just the hairs. Usually, men don't wear wigs because if someone detects it, he will instantly recognise that the person has lost his hair. But it's not the case with women. Many women with a full head of hairs wear wigs of different colours and style. This gives them an instant result, and it is acceptable in society as well. For example, Kate Perry. You are a transwoman and you can justify wearing a wig.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

@EmmaS : We are a lot alike, HRT failed me too (even my ***), but patience is the key. Suicide is the last resort. You must be too young to even consider that.

One shall never resort to suicide for hair loss.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

probably P drops towards the end of pregnancy then the estrogen dominance stimulates labor and the E drops (perhaps more gradually) after labor.

Think that may indeed be the case.

"Progesterone levels rise significantly in the beginning of pregnancy. Estrogen levels increase during pregnancy and are highest before labor. Scientists now think that labour begins when estrogen becomes the dominant hormone.
Almost immediately after delivery of the placenta progesterone levels return to what they were pre-pregnancy. Estrogen levels after pregnancy remain at the same high level, resulting in what is called estrogen dominance.Typically, symptoms related to hormone imbalance should be prevalent for a few weeks after delivery."