Prepare a portfolio lol
Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
- Start date
Prepare a portfolio lol
- Reaction score
- 310
As of today I'm giving the estrogel a rest, no conventional sides, no gyno or anything typical save for the fact that I feel that my applying it every day has gone somewhat systemic and I'm getting issues with fatigue and I don't like how dry my skin feels. I don't know if it's because of low test or the min, but if min is interfering with my androgen receptors on top of whatever the estrogel was doing, I'm going to have to reconfigure my approach.
I feel this has a lot to do with my taking minoxidil as well, because there is some research that implies that on top of the estrogen minoxidil may actually interfere with androgen receptor activity as well.
So I'm transitioning entirely to minoxidil, and tonight I'm getting the finasteride and I'm going to make up a batch of dilute 2.5% minoxidil and 1mg finasteride solution and start with that. I am not playing around with finasteride, that sh*t is going to start off in very low concentrations. I am not going to put myself in the same situation I did before with taking it orally.
I feel like the growth stimulatory effects of minoxidil are preferable to the estrogen at this point, there is a far greater chance of my getting my hair back and being able to cut weight and be lean again if I can get a good ratio of administered minoxidil and topical finasteride going. Minoxidil has done far more for improving blood flow in my body even if I can't handle 5% for more than six days at one application per day.
Estrogen for me will always have some undesirable sides if I rely on it as my mainstay, if whatever is going on stabilizes, I will return to using the estrogel albeit in a considerably more dilute solution and applied less frequently.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If what is written in this abstract is true, then it would explain why minoxidil works for men who have Androgenetic Alopecia without the use of any other androgenic antagonists, for some people it simply may be enough.
I feel this has a lot to do with my taking minoxidil as well, because there is some research that implies that on top of the estrogen minoxidil may actually interfere with androgen receptor activity as well.
So I'm transitioning entirely to minoxidil, and tonight I'm getting the finasteride and I'm going to make up a batch of dilute 2.5% minoxidil and 1mg finasteride solution and start with that. I am not playing around with finasteride, that sh*t is going to start off in very low concentrations. I am not going to put myself in the same situation I did before with taking it orally.
I feel like the growth stimulatory effects of minoxidil are preferable to the estrogen at this point, there is a far greater chance of my getting my hair back and being able to cut weight and be lean again if I can get a good ratio of administered minoxidil and topical finasteride going. Minoxidil has done far more for improving blood flow in my body even if I can't handle 5% for more than six days at one application per day.
Estrogen for me will always have some undesirable sides if I rely on it as my mainstay, if whatever is going on stabilizes, I will return to using the estrogel albeit in a considerably more dilute solution and applied less frequently.
Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions
Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
If what is written in this abstract is true, then it would explain why minoxidil works for men who have Androgenetic Alopecia without the use of any other androgenic antagonists, for some people it simply may be enough.
Last edited:
- Reaction score
- 310
If what is true about tha
That's a lot of excellent information, it certainly serves as a warning against the very large therapeutic dosages that are prescribed for diabetes.
Note to self, supplement with L-Ornithine when taking low dose metformin.
Also note to self, keep an eye on blood urea levels, (L-Ornithine lowers blood ammonia and in turn increases the production of urea instead)
examine.com
Max summary of Metformin/AKG. AMPK and TORm receptor
I was going to create a topic on this, but we already posted everything right here, this is what I managed to gather with my knowledge and my summary
Alpha-Ketoglutarate: Physiological Functions and Applications - PMC
Alpha-ketoglutarate (AKG) is a key molecule in the Krebs cycle determining the overall rate of the citric acid cycle of the organism. It is a nitrogen scavenger and a source of glutamate and glutamine that stimulates protein synthesis and inhibits ...www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"""A recent study has shown the potential usefulness of AMPK treatment in preserving bone mass as well as lowering bone turnover in post-menopausal women (Tocaj et al., 2003). Results suggest a link between enteral AKG/AMPK and an increase in estrogen levels. """
In my opnion maybe higher i little or regulates receptor(AR or ER) I have already posted some studies in other posts where the AMPK pathway regulates AR receptors , wathever maybe AMPK pathway modulates estrogen levels.
It appears that high levels of AMPK response result in high levels of estrogens are somehow still unclear how levels of estrogens can higher.
Explains the effect of metformin on acne, on hinsurtism, skin's diseases , In addition to the effects of AMPK / AKG stimulation , estrogen being an "anti androgen" by definition and studies pointing to this side explain a lot its off-label therapeutic effect.
High levels of AMPK RESPONSE will compel your follicles to enter the anagen phase
Mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 (mTORC1) may modulate the timing of anagen entry in mouse hair follicles - PubMed
Mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR) is a central regulator of cell proliferation and survival. There is limited evidence that mTOR influences hair follicles (HFs), which undergo cycles of quiescence (telogen), growth (anagen) and regression (catagen). We sought to investigate whether mTOR, in...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Stimulation of Hair Growth by Small Molecules that Activate Autophagy - PubMed
Hair plays important roles, ranging from the conservation of body heat to the preservation of psychological well-being. Hair loss or alopecia affects millions worldwide, but methods that can be used to regrow hair are lacking. We report that quiescent (telogen) hair follicles can be stimulated...
mTOR signaling promotes stem cell activation via counterbalancing BMP-mediated suppression during hair regeneration - PubMed
Hair follicles (HFs) undergo cycles of degeneration (catagen), rest (telogen), and regeneration (anagen) phases. Anagen begins when the hair follicle stem cells (HFSCs) obtain sufficient activation cues to overcome suppressive signals, mainly the BMP pathway, from their niche cells. Here, we...
Stimulation of Hair Growth by Small Molecules that Activate Autophagy
Hair plays important roles, ranging from the conservation of body heat to the preservation of psychological well-being. Hair loss or alopecia affects …www.sciencedirect.com
It has a direct effect on the hair follicle in several different paths .
It can be an unprecedented therapeutic drug for your capillary and skin health, in a way you never dreamed of, I saw a lot of things that scared me with results, but it's not all flowers, is it?
This pathway interferes with glutamine metabolism
The AMPK pathway increases the availability of glutamine, so to speak.
Glutamine has great effects on the body, macrophages and other cells of our immune and muscular system.
However, in the brain it can have adverse effects on (swelling of astrocytes, defects in neuronal communication) this is how severe liver conditions develop .
Glutamine is metabolized to ammonia, this is too toxic for the kidneys and liver , besides everything and in addition we can enter an eternal cycle of ammonia to hyperstimulate this pathway
Evidence of a vicious cycle in glutamine synthesis and breakdown in pathogenesis of hepatic encephalopathy–therapeutic perspectives - PMC
There is substantial clinical and experimental evidence that ammonia is a major factor in the pathogenesis of hepatic encephalopathy. In the article is demonstrated that in hepatocellular dysfunction, ammonia detoxification to glutamine (GLN) in ...
AMPK Activation Affects Glutamate Metabolism in Astrocytes - PubMed
Mammalian AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) functions as a metabolic switch. It is composed of 3 different subunits and its activation depends on phosphorylation of a threonine residue (Thr172) in the α-subunit. This phosphorylation can be brought about by 5-aminoimidazole-4-carboxamide...
And stimulate the catabolism acids BCAA's; valine, leucine and isoleucine in skeletal muscle .
The post will be gigantic if I go on explaining it, but I can already tell, I just say that stimulating the AMPK route can be wonderful for skin and hair, but this is the contract, this in the long term 10 years for example can evolve something bad .
In other words, make your choice via AMPK worth it or not?
That's a lot of excellent information, it certainly serves as a warning against the very large therapeutic dosages that are prescribed for diabetes.
Note to self, supplement with L-Ornithine when taking low dose metformin.
Also note to self, keep an eye on blood urea levels, (L-Ornithine lowers blood ammonia and in turn increases the production of urea instead)
Examine.com
Examine simplifies nutrition and supplementation — through meticulous analysis of the latest scientific research — to help answer your questions on how to be healthier.
- Reaction score
- 310
Estrogen and progesterone antagonize one another.
Progesterone doesn't so much feminize like estrogen, it more interferes with testosterone and DHT passively and exerts its own effect. What I will say is, I have been using topical estrogen in an alcohol gel suspension on my scalp for a few weeks now, and I have had absolutely zero overtly feminizing effects, no gyno at all, just a bit of weight gain.
I have been prescribed pharmacy grade progesterone before, and I had to stop taking it because around a week of taking it I started feeling a definite tingling and soreness around my nipple area, which became mildly enlarged until I realized it was the progesterone doing it and discontinued.
Progesterone is not a strong hormone for growing hair the way estrogen does, it absolutely can maintain hair however. It won't hurt it, because progesterone interferes with DHT and Testosterone, but it won't stimulate the kind of crazy regrowth we've seen from people like bridgeburn.
I thought that it would make sense (maybe not as well) if someone would use progesterone while using Bi-Estro or Estrogel, just for the idea of the resensitization for the estrogen receptors (if it's possible to happen), to keep the balance between progesterone and estradiol. So, the whole logic would be: Applying, maybe once a week, or 2-4 times per month progesterone as well, so you won't "overload" the estrogen receptors and keep the balance with the antagonizing effects of progesterone. I read that progesterone to estradiol ratio is very important, and these two hormones must be kept in balance. I guess that's why many estrogens come with progestogens as well (balance). Topical application is a different thing but still something to consider (I mainly talk for when it comes to topical application though). Another problem with progesterone, apart from the antagonism to Estradiol, is the specific query: "What if is capable to enable the backdoor pathway of DHT through the 17-OHP?" wouldn't be a problem as well? I keep in my mind these thoughts about Progesterone. Any opinion is appreciated. Thank you.
I recommend that you start at 75mg and increase as needed. I have suspicions that 100mg and above are unnecessarily large dosages. I'm not sure about this yet, but I'm guessing. Either way, it will stop the progression, so you won't lose anything if you try
It is advisable to avoid high dosages of Bicalutamide and remember that these are not vitamins from Iherb
PSA values are reduced even more when used together with Finasteride Bicalutamide. This will exceed 90%, which should be enough.
Attachments
- Reaction score
- 414
ClinicalKey
www.clinicalkey.com
""By day 4, control HFs and HFs treated with DHT plus bicalutamide were still in anagen, whereas HFs treated with DHT alone had entered catagen phase. Hair length recording revealed that DHT inhibited hair growth and that this effect was partly reversed by bicalutamide""
Very good @Almas article, I had never seen anything from specific bicalutamide treating androgenic alopecia in that sense DHT
Only studies in women
Good article.
- Reaction score
- 414
I think that this needs studies.
Since patients who have diabetes can be a normal complication the kidneys do not function properly, so there are not many studies in this regard in the long term as the kidneys are affected by the underlying disease that the drug is used to treat.
I think this pathway interferes with a very dangerous pathway in our body, but it is a medication widely used worldwide.
But like all drugs, think about whether you are willing to take that risk.
I'm not going to give my opinion openly like this anymore, a lot of people visit this topic and read loose things, I don't want to influence anyone at all, I made available all the content I got, I want everyone to read and put it on the scale if they are willing to take the risks or not, since nothing can happen, or it can happen, as well as any treatment.
See that metformin was as effective as finasteride in treating various conditions.
It works!
And so ? Are you going to sign the contract?
COMPARISON OF FINASTERIDE, METFORMIN, AND FINASTERIDE PLUS METFORMIN IN PCOS - PMC
The effects of finasteride on insulin resistance and of metformin on hyperandrogenism in patients with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) are not clear. This study therefore compared the effects of finasteride, metformin, and finasteride plus ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Bicalutamide has shown excellent results in mice. It should be borne in mind that in combination with a 5AR blocker, Bicalutamide shows the best results, that is, a complete cure is possible if you started treatment on time. I do not know what dose was used in the study in terms of human equivalent, the appropriate dose in combination with a 5AP blocker I have to find empirically, doing research on myself
This dosage is somewhere in the 50-100mg range.
This dosage is somewhere in the 50-100mg range.
- Reaction score
- 1,335
- Reaction score
- 1,335
Bicalutamide dosage is 1mg per 4 ng/dL of T. However binding affinity of Bica to AR is lower than T and of course DHT. But it will work somewhat by flooding the AR 5000 times to 1. You still need a 5ARI like Duta to block T from converting to DHT or even higher dose of Bica (as DHTCel did but not advised because drug can be hard on liver.) You won't lower your T with Bica. It stays in the blood serum and doesn't bind. It could even increase due to feedback loop (the formula above takes that into consideration). To lower T you need E2. Then feedback loop will create even more E2 with T conversation to E2 (thankfully the opposite doesn't happen). Increasing E2 will at some point lower your T so much that Bica is not necessary as you are approaching female range. If you suffer male pattern baldness keep using Duta to cut DHT but at lower T you can start adding longer cycles. At this point you are on HRT just because you have hairloss dysphoria which won't be ideal in society if you don't embrace the sides as your new lifestyle.
PS: don't even think about lowering your T and keeping your E low unless you want to live like a zombie. You need one dominant sex hormone in your body. And don't nuke your T entirely. It's still needed for many functions.
PSS: the biggest miss from all these posts is to learn that bridgeburn, ikarus, @Itsnoahkennedy and others haven't bothered to track their progress and associate it with lab work. Doing HRT without blood levels is like playing minigolf blind folded. All they did was using the mirror to experience their progress. This individualistic method doesn't work well for people to try emulating the journey.
PS: don't even think about lowering your T and keeping your E low unless you want to live like a zombie. You need one dominant sex hormone in your body. And don't nuke your T entirely. It's still needed for many functions.
PSS: the biggest miss from all these posts is to learn that bridgeburn, ikarus, @Itsnoahkennedy and others haven't bothered to track their progress and associate it with lab work. Doing HRT without blood levels is like playing minigolf blind folded. All they did was using the mirror to experience their progress. This individualistic method doesn't work well for people to try emulating the journey.
Last edited:
MPMD guy mentioned progesterone among his blown-up list of supplements.
Progesterone (8 mg before bed; will up the dose; not recommended for naturals)
Progesterone (8 mg before bed; will up the dose; not recommended for naturals)
- Reaction score
- 1,104
I see Bicalutamide as a safe medicine as well, besides the possible liver damage and making you look neotenice. The liver issues are inevitable, so it would be great avoiding too many drugs, especially if you want to stay on them for the long term.
Agree with you. However, Ikarus followed his analyzes, as did DHTCEL. Ikarus had female hormone levels.
10ng/dl
It is also not a fact that we necessarily need to completely block the receptors. Ein somehow got the result on a low dose of Bicalutamide, which suggests that we are wrong in the theoretical calculations. There are also factors such as T concentration in different tissues, which we do not know. Therefore, it remains only to empirically look for the right dosage, I am doing this right now. I also know someone who got 75mg Bica, even though his T was 1150 ng / dl. That is why I assume that dosages from 100mg are unnecessary, and 50-75 are enough to block T in the skin.
- Reaction score
- 1,104
I start to more and more agree on your statement. I think 75mg is sufficient enough, yes.
I will probably start off with 75mg and if needed to 100mg. I will let the 75mg do its' job for 6months then.
- Reaction score
- 1,335
I would advise for bioidentical p4 instead. However the half life is short and best administration is rectal.
- Reaction score
- 1,335
No one shared their lab work. Thanks for all the fish ladies.
If you admit that we are wrong in theorical calculations then I guess there is no point correcting me about the calculation.
Anyway, it all depends and everyone is different. Some mtf patients still lose their hair even after orectomy. There are more than one path to get DHT production than just gonads. Bica can always help but to some extent Some ladies experience remasculanisation. So it's not a done deal. It would be interesting to hear from the ones that have recovered what has happened overtime.
Last edited:
I have corrected you in the dosage calculation to completely stop the activation of the AR receptor in the prostate. But he added that it is not a fact that the same dose is needed for the scalp
Yes, there are cases when there is no way out other than a complete trans transition (. I hope this is not about me