I Accidentally Found Out My Brother Is Gay And Dont Know What To Do (he Doesnt Know I Know)

[Dante92]

 

[Rudiger]

There's some evidence that couples living separately do better than those who live together.

However, getting a divorce or separating is not better. It never is.

Well that's just about enough Fredpill for me today.

 

[swingline747]

Alright, it almost never is .

Two adults can work out their problems up to a point, if you let your relationship deteriorate too far, it becomes unsalvageable at a point.

At a point, no matter what you do, it won't fix your broken relationship.

But you need to be both quite willfully blind, foolish and malevolent to ever get to that point.

A divorce is the coward's way out. There's a reason most people see it as a failure. It's because it is.

You failed, because you chose to ignore the problems of your relationships and and/or you refused to try to fix them.

I dont see divorce as a cowards way out as sometimes it takes WAY more determination and will to actually go through with it. Its breaks a family up, causes lots of turmoil, strains finances, and causes sides to be taken.
The problem is people rush into getting married because culture has told them its the next step and they can not attain completion without it. "How can you get a good long term healthy career if you cant start a family"?
So many people I talk to say they simply got married because society told them they needed to and the woman wanted that ring. Ive read stats (tho a couple years ago now) that marriages were actually on the decline in the US as women became more self reliant. I think thats great actually. I have ZERO desire for marriage. I have better things to spend my money on than an expensive ring some African child probably died digging out of parasite infested waters and some fancy cake just so some woman will say she will let me plow her exclusively until shes bored with my dick.
Back to topic tho, after the rush to marriage, people realize it was a mistake and then thing "hey you know what will fix this.... A KID!"

You begin to dig a ditch thats VERY hard to climb out of by the time you add joint finances, a house, mutual friends, "TIME". These things make it very hard to just walk away sometimes. Hell the finances are enough to keep me trapped honestly.

Also people change, your tastes change, your interests and hobbies change. People mature in different directions and feel they need different commodities to fulfill their lives. Nothing about that is willfully blind or foolish. Sometimes you just like what you like and you have no interest in things the other half does. Some people find that time apart cathartic. Others it drives a wedge and sometimes makes them seek others out who have those interests.

I think staying together for any reason, even kids, is "usually" worse than splitting up while you both have time to rationalize and move on. Wait to long and you just prolong the post anger. Do it early enough and everyone can have enough time to finish those 12 steps, move on and co parent.

 

[Patrick_Bateman]

Re-read you first sentence. If that what divorce usually causes, why the hell would you go through with it? Isn't the alternative almost always better? Which was my point.

If you don't want to build a family, what the hell are you going to do with your life for the next 40-50 years? You're not that old, right? Mid-30's if I remember well. The thing is, you don't know what life is going to be like when you're older.

Those women are not more self-reliant, they only think they are and they also think that their choices are going to work for them for the rest of their lives, which is a huge mistake. You're 25 and you know that you don't want children? Jesus, you're a kid, what the hell do you know about life and what's good for you?

People have been getting married, building families and have lived their lives based on that template for eons because that is what works. And you think that you can just do away with all that tradition? You'd better be sure of your choice because there's going to be no rewind button when you're in your 50's, suffering from some harsh disease, having financial problems and you're alone to face it all.

Good luck with that. People usually do not know what they want, they don't know what's good for them because they don't ask themselves the right questions and they just don't think things through.

If she gets bored with your dick, it's going to be partly your fault. If your finances go down the drain, same, partly your fault, if you get into conflicts with your friends, you get my drift. And finally, like I already said in this thread, as cliche as it sounds, it takes two to tango.

Your relationship going down the drain is rarely a unilateral effort. You're both into this, and you're both in charge of maintaining the romance, the peace and the health in your relationship.

Finally, you move on to what exactly? What is better than tending to your family's current and future well-being?

Lol, "you just move and co-parent", this is said so casually, yet I know the immense suffering contained in that seemingly innocuous decision, I've seen it unfold around me, and from there on, it's just a dark pit of unresolved conflict and suffering.

Kids, do not do that to your kids. And to yourself.

*Bear catches his breath*

Was about to like this, but then I saw the RPing at the end.

 

[swingline747]

Re-read you first sentence. If that what divorce usually causes, why the hell would you go through with it? Isn't the alternative almost always better? Which was my point.

sometimes a divorce is a better short term rough patch than long term pining and passive aggression

If you don't want to build a family, what the hell are you going to do with your life for the next 40-50 years? You're not that old, right? Mid-30's if I remember well. The thing is, you don't know what life is going to be like when you're older.

Ill do whatever I want. Im a selfish person. I will not be good with kids. I do not like kids. I do not "need" companionship outside of my hobbies and friends. We live in a digital age, you are never truly alone. You get bored, you go online and find someone (even in a non sexual way) who enjoys your interests and hook up to go do something. I like music, actually been in a really cool project with a drummer. that alone is enough to make me feel validated with myself. Im writing and creating music. My interests are my kids and looking back at those completed I will be fine. You dont know what life is going to be like when youre older even with kids. Your wife could leave you and your daughter becomes a meth addicted prostitute. How does not knowing what 10 years from now hold any validation to what I should do today unless it directly deals with my financial capabilities to rely on myself.

Those women are not more self-reliant, they only think they are and they also think that their choices are going to work for them for the rest of their lives, which is a huge mistake. You're 25 and you know that you don't want children? Jesus, you're a kid, what the hell do you know about life and what's good for you?

Im 36 not 25, unless you are talking about those women. In my eyes If I can know what I want at 25 then so could they. But again people change. Also knowing whats good for you at 25 for someone who HAD to be self reliant at an earlier age, like myself, is MUCH different than someone who still lives at home at 26. Dont you still live with your parent? A girl who goes to live on her own and has to take care of herself earlier will probably make a much harder choice at the things she REALLY wants in life. Or she could go take the easier short term answer of getting a guy to knock her up and letting him "take care of her". Which will probably end in a divorce later on due to a rushed, regretted decision.

People have been getting married, building families and have lived their lives based on that template for eons because that is what works. And you think that you can just do away with all that tradition? You'd better be sure of your choice because there's going to be no rewind button when you're in your 50's, suffering from some harsh disease, having financial problems and you're alone to face it all.

That template is primarily built on religious beliefs. It also doesnt "work", its a crap shoot. Remember it worked in the past because women were primarily reliant on their men and a divorced woman with kids was kind of an outcast. that isnt really the way things are now. In the US its actually kind of gross that almost every girl now comes with some other guys kid. It makes for easier lays, but nothing I would view as a long term deal. I could never understand when guys say they get attached to someone elses kid in a relationship after the woman wants to split up. Just f*****g hit the bricks dude, there are plenty of other desperate single moms if thats your fetish.

Good luck with that. People usually do not know what they want, they don't know what's good for them because they don't ask themselves the right questions and they just don't think things through.

You are criticizing me for not knowing what I would want (mind you almost 10 years older than you) but you think your idea of starting a family is 100% want you want. thats a bit hypocritical isnt it?

If she gets bored with your dick, it's going to be partly your fault. If your finances go down the drain, same, partly your fault, if you get into conflicts with your friends, you get my drift. And finally, like I already said in this thread, as cliche as it sounds, it takes two to tango.

So all those women you say left you because of your hair issues, it was really your fault then? Good to know. People get bored for various reasons. Sometimes a better opportunity just comes along and an already questionable relationship seems like fate just handed her an answer.

Your relationship going down the drain is rarely a unilateral effort. You're both into this, and you're both in charge of maintaining the romance, the peace and the health in your relationship.

Yes, thats true but sometimes one side can think they are giving it 110% while the other doesnt feel so. At times someone doesnt want to change. Other times one person doesnt even know what they really want, but will continue to throw out arbitrary things at the other they feel they arent doing just to have something. There are times when its just not salvageable and again a short term "bad time" is better than a 30 year bout.

Finally, you move on to what exactly? What is better than tending to your family's current and future well-being?

separated parents can 100% tend to their family. People can co parent separately but they need to agree to that and realize the relationship between them is over and the child is what matters. That can be much healthier to a child than 18 years of wondering if the constant bickering is their fault.

Lol, "you just move and co-parent", this is said so casually, yet I know the immense suffering contained in that seemingly innocuous decision, I've seen it unfold around me, and from there on, it's just a dark pit of unresolved conflict and suffering.

And Ive seen plenty of separated people very successfully co parent with very happy kids. It depends on the maturity of the parents involved. If they can not co parent maturely how can they successfully keep a marriage running without cheap shots.

Kids, do not do that to your kids. And to yourself.

*Bear catches his breath*

answers in red above

 

[hanginginthewire]

I don't know much about anything, but at least I'm trying to understand what I can from the world.

And clearly, since you can't even begin to refute what I'm saying, I must be onto something.

Try arguments instead of childish ad hominems next time if you can.

Here's a template:

I think you are wrong because:

- Argument 1
- Argument 2
- Argument 3

Conclusion

It was just a commentary on your pontificating. The problem is your guns blazing, sweeping generalizations that go on for pages until you are confronted with something that doesn't fit your narrative and then you acknowledge. It's too time consuming to go through that process.

But I will ask you this, just for my own edification. What is your opinion on same sex relationships that don't involve raising children? Do you think they are good or bad for society?

 

[Marky]

Like many people of this forum (and me a few years ago), you have a very dark view of the world and human beings.

In your eyes, it seems we're all hopeless and weak creatures driven by our basic instincts and always striving for short-term gratification.

And you're definitely not wrong about that, but we can be so much more than that.

Have you ever wondered how the people who make it work (and make no mistake, they're out there) do it?

There is an up, and it is attainable, but it seems that most people don't want to bother with that, they don't want to bother making sacrifices.

I don't know if my life plan is going to work out, but I know that it has worked for a few rare people who are models to follow.

I've also seen what the life of my mother's childless friends looks like. Nothing short of terrifying.

It's an act of faith, I want my life to unfold the way I want it because I think it's the best way for me to live.

Now I'm going to refine my needs as the years go by. But that choice of having children or not, I know I have to make it now.

I'm going to be 28 in three months. My girlfriend and I are renovating our apartment and we should move in together this spring.

We've agreed that if we're not at each other's throat after a few months, we're going to start trying to conceive.

And we're looking forward to it all, fools that we are, right?

Anyway, I guess my point is, some people make it, despite all the suffering and catastrophes happening in their lives.

You know it's true, you know they exist, you know there are admirable people out there.

So where is all this bitterness coming from? I sense resentment and hatred against the whole world when I read you.

I'm not going to play dumb, I mostly know why you think that way, just read my mid-2014's posts.



That's my goal, waiting for people to tell me why I'm stupid, with sound and powerful arguments .

Nor good, nor bad, as long as the men use condoms.

Society doesn't need more HIV infections spread around.

Other than that, gay people should be allowed to do what they please.

But they shouldn't be celebrated, which is why (like most people), I find the pride parades ridiculous and counterproductive for the image of gay people.

"But they shouldn't be celebrated, which is why (like most people), I find the pride parades ridiculous and counterproductive for the image of gay people"

Just ask yourselves why they have to march in underwear, gee strings and some buck naked. Why don't they just put on some jeans
or shorts if it's too hot. Where do we draw the line on their behavior and playing the victim card while spreading perversion.
Here's a "music" video from a guy I knew who is not really making it in acting - Father Lover, 2 gay dudes who want to do each others
dads. Kind of comedic, but whats next for these people and their "rights"

 

[swingline747]

Like many people of this forum (and me a few years ago), you have a very dark view of the world and human beings.

In your eyes, it seems we're all hopeless and weak creatures driven by our basic instincts and always striving for short-term gratification.

And you're definitely not wrong about that, but we can be so much more than that.

Have you ever wondered how the people who make it work (and make no mistake, they're out there) do it?

There is an up, and it is attainable, but it seems that most people don't want to bother with that, they don't want to bother making sacrifices.

I don't know if my life plan is going to work out, but I know that it has worked for a few rare people who are models to follow.

I've also seen what the life of my mother's childless friends looks like. Nothing short of terrifying.

It's an act of faith, I want my life to unfold the way I want it because I think it's the best way for me to live.

Now I'm going to refine my needs as the years go by. But that choice of having children or not, I know I have to make it now.

I'm going to be 28 in three months. My girlfriend and I are renovating our apartment and we should move in together this spring.

We've agreed that if we're not at each other's throat after a few months, we're going to start trying to conceive.

And we're looking forward to it all, fools that we are, right?

Anyway, I guess my point is, some people make it, despite all the suffering and catastrophes happening in their lives.

You know it's true, you know they exist, you know there are admirable people out there.

So where is all this bitterness coming from? I sense resentment and hatred against the whole world when I read you.

I'm not going to play dumb, I mostly know why you think that way, just read my mid-2014's posts.

Well I hope it all works for you, I do.

I used to have resentfulness and hatred for things but then I realized it wasnt. It was just what people told me because they didnt like my views. Im a self sufficient person. I dont honestly do well in a system where I share space and time 100%. This is my first true live in relationship and I hate it. I hate coordinating my eating and hobbies around someone else. I dont like compromising on how I want to do things. Thats me. It has nothing to do with anyone else.
I dont do well with children, Im an impatient person. Everytime Im with my friends who have them and they are running around screaming and I ask how they do it, its always the same "you tune them out". How is that a life. I know people ask, "but who will take care of you when youre older?" To me thats even MORE selfish than not having them. You are using your seed as your 401k because you are not sure enough of yourself to make plans. And whos to say your (not YOU) kids will even stick around. A lot of peoples kids are pretty dumb fucks and theres plenty of parents and children who stop talking. Or maybe your kids get busy with their own family and then you are stuck wondering why theyre not calling or visiting you.

Either way, there is no correct answer to anything. There are so many variables when you go from one person to 2 thats its impossible to ever pick the 100% correct answer.
People may think Im bitter or angry but 99% of the time my really outrageous stuff is actually just mean to get a reaction or make people laugh. My more direct and un-compassionate stuff is just plain logic. There is room in your torso for your brain but no room in your skull for your heart (my own quote thank you).

I just say IF for ANY reason it doesnt work out and you both try and do end up with a child you take the time to realize maturely that the possibility of an amicable split and co parenting is a viable option. Other wise she will and youll just get bitter and blame the broken family on "her" until the kid either resent her, which you may want, or resents YOU for being an unbearable depressed ***.

Also do they have mandatory child suport there? I thought once you said no. Honestly I think thats awesome and should be our rule here as well. To me thats the 100% reason most men stay in unhealthy relationships. They leave and basically lose half their sh*t and have to keep paying some woman they hate. I think it would also stop unwed mothers from having kids to mooch off welfare, so long as welfare is cut off as well. Get a damn abortion stupid, most of these women are pro choice anyway.

also I dont see that much difference in your 2014 posts than now lol, we may think we have gotten smarter or matured but probably just filled our own heads with more inaccurate sh*t.

 

[CaptainForehead]

I've also seen what the life of my mother's childless friends looks like. Nothing short of terrifying.

How is it terrifying?

 

[CaptainForehead]

Well I hope it all works for you, I do.

I used to have resentfulness and hatred for things but then I realized it wasnt. It was just what people told me because they didnt like my views. Im a self sufficient person. I dont honestly do well in a system where I share space and time 100%. This is my first true live in relationship and I hate it. I hate coordinating my eating and hobbies around someone else. I dont like compromising on how I want to do things. Thats me. It has nothing to do with anyone else.
I dont do well with children, Im an impatient person. Everytime Im with my friends who have them and they are running around screaming and I ask how they do it, its always the same "you tune them out". How is that a life. I know people ask, "but who will take care of you when youre older?" To me thats even MORE selfish than not having them. You are using your seed as your 401k because you are not sure enough of yourself to make plans. And whos to say your (not YOU) kids will even stick around. A lot of peoples kids are pretty dumb fucks and theres plenty of parents and children who stop talking. Or maybe your kids get busy with their own family and then you are stuck wondering why theyre not calling or visiting you.

Either way, there is no correct answer to anything. There are so many variables when you go from one person to 2 thats its impossible to ever pick the 100% correct answer.
People may think Im bitter or angry but 99% of the time my really outrageous stuff is actually just mean to get a reaction or make people laugh. My more direct and un-compassionate stuff is just plain logic. There is room in your torso for your brain but no room in your skull for your heart (my own quote thank you).

I just say IF for ANY reason it doesnt work out and you both try and do end up with a child you take the time to realize maturely that the possibility of an amicable split and co parenting is a viable option. Other wise she will and youll just get bitter and blame the broken family on "her" until the kid either resent her, which you may want, or resents YOU for being an unbearable depressed ***.

Also do they have mandatory child suport there? I thought once you said no. Honestly I think thats awesome and should be our rule here as well. To me thats the 100% reason most men stay in unhealthy relationships. They leave and basically lose half their sh*t and have to keep paying some woman they hate. I think it would also stop unwed mothers from having kids to mooch off welfare, so long as welfare is cut off as well. Get a damn abortion stupid, most of these women are pro choice anyway.

also I dont see that much difference in your 2014 posts than now lol, we may think we have gotten smarter or matured but probably just filled our own heads with more inaccurate sh*t.

The only time I feel a need for companianship is when I am sick, or having to deal with a logistics issue. Even then, it's not really a need for companionship, but rather help with physical issues. @Afro_Vacancy mentioned in one of his posts that he longs for company to go to museums with. Fortunately, on excursions I think I'd rather go alone.

Not to play down the importance of having someone around in times of trouble.

 

[hanginginthewire]

Marky you are so backwards and anti-intellectual, it's embarrassing. You can take any random thing and use it to smear what "they" do. How old are you? Is it your age or your religion that makes you so dumb?

 

[swingline747]

The only time I feel a need for companianship is when I am sick, or having to deal with a logistics issue. Even then, it's not really a need for companionship, but rather help with physical issues. @Afro_Vacancy mentioned in one of his posts that he longs for company to go to museums with. Fortunately, on excursions I think I'd rather go alone.

Not to play down the importance of having someone around in times of trouble.

I tell (have told) my girl all the time I used to do things by myself very often. I would go out to eat, hike, movies, etc etc just to be alone. Her own jealousy prohibits this in my life now and I miss it. I would go through these stints of being alone (young me) and start to think I was lonely. I wasnt it was just what society would tell me. My friends with their girls, people asking why I didnt have a girlfriend, tv, media etc etc all planting the idea that male/female companionship was a necessity. Its not. After a crazy break up I had years ago I realized it wasnt. Sex was sex, friends were friends, that was pretty much all I needed. I am honestly that one guy who could have female friends and never try to sleep with them so female friends were my escape from a real girlfriend to do "couples stuff". Unfortunately girls are worse than guys as co ed friendships honestly.
If he wants to go to a museum then find a "friend" who wants to do that. Find a group, post an ad.
"Hey interested in going to MOMA this Saturday, looking for a tag along, interested?"
Again its a digital age, use an app.
If Im sick, I actually seriously want to be left alone, like 110%. Logistics issues I like to have someone there just to get an unbiased POV on whatever situation Im dealing with to compare to my own rational.
legalize prostitution and Ill never need ANYONE AGAIN! lol
People may think Im cold, or bitter, etc etc but to me Ive just matured beyond the need to "need" somebody. No man is an island, but some guys are definitely an archipelago

 

[swingline747]

The loneliness, the bitterness, the coldness, the hardness, the arrogance.

They're just very lonely people, and it reflects in their behavior, and how they see the world.

I can't imagine what it's like to have almost no one in your life in your 50's.

Unsurprisingly, most of them suffer from a myriad of health problems: obesity, diabetes, depression, etc.

Of course they can count on my mother because she's a very agreeable person and she always tries to see the good in them.

My mother's friends are either childless or divorced, sometimes several times.

They always make me uncomfortable, and you know what those people will say when I talk about my plans for the future.

Mostly what many people say on this forum: "Getting married? Having children? Let me tell you all the reasons why it will probably fail!"

They failed so everyone else has to fail too. According to them, I shouldn't even bother with trying to build a future with someone.

They remind me a little of @jd_uk (RIP?) who'd like us all to shave it off and hit the gym brah since he didn't want to save his hair.

That sounds like their issues are causing their loneliness not their loneliness causing their issues. I personally "feel" there is a difference there.

 

[CaptainForehead]

The loneliness, the bitterness, the coldness, the hardness, the arrogance.

They're just very lonely people, and it reflects in their behavior, and how they see the world.

Explain more. What do you mean by hardness, coldness, arrogance?

Unsurprisingly, most of them suffer from a myriad of health problems: obesity, diabetes, depression, etc.

http://www.businessinsider.de/marriage-effects-on-health-2017-7

Mostly what many people say on this forum: "Getting married? Having children? Let me tell you all the reasons why it will probably fail!"

What concrete reasons do they give for not having kids/getting married?

 

[CaptainForehead]

I tell (have told) my girl all the time I used to do things by myself very often. I would go out to eat, hike, movies, etc etc just to be alone. Her own jealousy prohibits this in my life now and I miss it. I would go through these stints of being alone (young me) and start to think I was lonely. I wasnt it was just what society would tell me. My friends with their girls, people asking why I didnt have a girlfriend, tv, media etc etc all planting the idea that male/female companionship was a necessity. Its not. After a crazy break up I had years ago I realized it wasnt. Sex was sex, friends were friends, that was pretty much all I needed. I am honestly that one guy who could have female friends and never try to sleep with them so female friends were my escape from a real girlfriend to do "couples stuff". Unfortunately girls are worse than guys as co ed friendships honestly.
If he wants to go to a museum then find a "friend" who wants to do that. Find a group, post an ad.
"Hey interested in going to MOMA this Saturday, looking for a tag along, interested?"
Again its a digital age, use an app.
If Im sick, I actually seriously want to be left alone, like 110%. Logistics issues I like to have someone there just to get an unbiased POV on whatever situation Im dealing with to compare to my own rational.
legalize prostitution and Ill never need ANYONE AGAIN! lol
People may think Im cold, or bitter, etc etc but to me Ive just matured beyond the need to "need" somebody. No man is an island, but some guys are definitely an archipelago

Is this the same girl who had become fat? How heavy/tall is she now?

 

[swingline747]

http://www.businessinsider.de/marriage-effects-on-health-2017-7

Know whats REALLY good for a womans health? Get ready to break up. Man do they start DROPPING the pounds!

 

[CaptainForehead]

social anxiety

Aha. That explains a lot.

At my workplace, there is a legit ugly guy. Like there is something hormonolly wrong with him. He is an introvert, but he goes to (lame) parties and outings with workmatess.

Get out of Milan.

 

[CaptainForehead]

Honestly, if any of you got through the same humiliations i suffered because of my italian peers, you'd be more than a bit anxious.

Yeah, it a chicken in milan and egg syndrome.

How is it going in Bristol? Have you been able to make any form of a social circle?

 

[Stanx22]

The loneliness, the bitterness, the coldness, the hardness, the arrogance.

They're just very lonely people, and it reflects in their behavior, and how they see the world.

I can't imagine what it's like to have almost no one in your life in your 50's.

Unsurprisingly, most of them suffer from a myriad of health problems: obesity, diabetes, depression, etc.

Of course they can count on my mother because she's a very agreeable person and she always tries to see the good in them.

My mother's friends are either childless or divorced, sometimes several times.

They always make me uncomfortable, and you know what those people will say when I talk about my plans for the future.

Mostly what many people say on this forum: "Getting married? Having children? Let me tell you all the reasons why it will probably fail!"

They failed so everyone else has to fail too. According to them, I shouldn't even bother with trying to build a future with someone.

They remind me a little of @jd_uk (RIP?) who'd like us all to shave it off and hit the gym brah since he didn't want to save his hair.

Well, she had many men who would have gladly married her and formed a healthy, loving relationship with kids, but she didn't agree on it because she considered them genetically inferior and only wanted the chad. I blame her for her loneliness. At least we don't have an option, but she's shallow and superficial, she deserves this.

 

[Stanx22]

Honestly, if any of you got through the same humiliations i suffered because of my italian peers, you'd be more than a bit anxious.

Rely on hatred to keep on going. Most people in society blame others when they turn evil or be filled with hatred, but it's ironic because society is the responsible for making them the way they're. I was rejected by society for who am i and society hates me with passion because i don't like to be hypocrite like the rest of the people. And as much as society hates me i also hate it.