New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Breathheat]

Heyz. I don't know what the big deal about sperm is. If some1 decides to put it on their heads, then that's their choice. We don't need people telling us how nasty,gross or stupid they think it is. Rambo if you decide to quit this forum then atleast open your own blog. I sure as heck will follow it. Trolls always find some1 to troll, it's their nature. They wanna show the world how tough they are on a forum. I've seen the same troll starting fights with other members in this entire thread,mostly over nothing. Just ignore the trolls man. And i thought your avatar looked cool, I'm a fan a Game of thrones. Well as I said if you do leave, open your own blog, that way we can still try stuff without all the negative crap around and or trolls.

 

[DesperateOne]

Heyz. I don't know what the big deal about sperm is. If some1 decides to put it on their heads, then that's their choice. We don't need people telling us how nasty,gross or stupid they think it is. Rambo if you decide to quit this forum then atleast open your own blog. I sure as heck will follow it. Trolls always find some1 to troll, it's their nature. They wanna show the world how tough they are on a forum. I've seen the same troll starting fights with other members in this entire thread,mostly over nothing. Just ignore the trolls man. And i thought your avatar looked cool, I'm a fan a Game of thrones. Well as I said if you do leave, open your own blog, that way we can still try stuff without all the negative crap around and or trolls.

That's a great idea, a simple blogspot should do the trick. However I think that we were getting pretty close to Follica with the patents. The way I see it is this, we really have most of the pieces of the puzzle already, the PGD2 blocker was one of the last and well even though it was released before that it affected male pattern baldness, we needed the last patent to sort of solidify the concept.

The way I see it now and the way I am going to approach it is like this.

Sat - 1.5mm or 2.5mm until I see some a lot of redness as well as blood.(notice that Dr Des Fernandes mentions this, but it is meant for aging, and not directly related to male pattern baldness, but it should be the same) + finasteride
Sun - Add minoxidil 2-3 times a day after the inflammation stage is gone(This may be anywhere from a couple of hours to days, you know your own body best, I personally think for me is usually around 16 hours) + finasteride
Mon - "
Tues - "
Wed - "
Thur - " + nizoral at night
Fri - " + Cet(1-2ml diluted in water in the morning to block PDG2, and maybe it may block some PGE2) + Semen(To increase some the lost PGE2 and just bring more growth factors)
Sat - ""
Sun - "" but now minoxidil 4 times a day since in the graph it shows that from day 7-14 is the most important days to achieve new follicles.
Mon - """ + nizoral at night
Tues - """ no nizoral
Wed - """"
Thurs - """"
Frid - """" + nizoral at night
Sat - Loop (I might actually wait 2-3 more days before loop again, depending on the amount of wounding I caused)

This is just my personal procedure that I will follow, not endorsing it.

 

[Mach]

I second the blog idea. I work 10 to 12 hours a day then lurk here where so many people ask the same questions. I'd rather go to your blog. Read, see pictures then move on.

 

[mas80]

Sorry my signature, avatar or posts bother you so much. I will go ahead and clean up the mess I have caused. I don't personally get anything from posting stuff except I think it helps out people and we all learn a lot from each other, researching stuff allows me to broaden my knowledge about why I was balding in the first place. I tried to delete my account by I can't find any settings to do, so admin please delete my account, I will go ahead and remove my posts so it doesn't cause a personal vendetta against me or anyone. I wish you all the best in life, hopefully a cure will be found someday so that we don't have to go to extreme measure to fight this condition. Peace!

So one of the few sane voices here decides to leave...well, that's just great..

So, the dermapen will cause less damage and smaller wound with faster recovery time. Is that a good thing for us when we want all that wound healing magic to happen?

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Sounds like the electric dermapens might not be such a good idea...

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermapen-causes-skin-micro-tearing/

http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/derma-pen-review/

 

[Jacob]

So, the dermapen will cause less damage and smaller wound with faster recovery time. Is that a good thing for us when we want all that wound healing magic to happen?

I'm not sure the difference would be that great between the two. If you're looking for the most "damage"..go with something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Original-Microneedle-Vibrating-Function-Detachable/dp/B0043JIFCY ..although I'm not sure they have the needle lengths we're looking to use. I'm assuming the cheaper ones you see- like with the LED lights...don't vibrate much since I read a review saying that there was no vibration being felt on the head part itself. The one in the link is what I have and it vibrates plenty. Even with just a .25mm head I get that wanting to sneeze/watery eyes at times.

 

[closetmetrosexual]

Sat - 1.5mm or 2.5mm until I see some a lot of redness as well as blood.(notice that Dr Des Fernandes mentions this, but it is meant for aging, and not directly related to male pattern baldness, but it should be the same) + finasteride
Sun - Add minoxidil 2-3 times a day after the inflammation stage is gone(This may be anywhere from a couple of hours to days, you know your own body best, I personally think for me is usually around 16 hours) + finasteride
Mon - "
Tues - "
Wed - "
Thur - " + nizoral at night
Fri - " + Cet(1-2ml diluted in water in the morning to block PDG2, and maybe it may block some PGE2) + Semen(To increase some the lost PGE2 and just bring more growth factors)
Sat - ""
Sun - "" but now minoxidil 4 times a day since in the graph it shows that from day 7-14 is the most important days to achieve new follicles.
Mon - """ + nizoral at night
Tues - """ no nizoral
Wed - """"
Thurs - """"
Frid - """" + nizoral at night
Sat - Loop (I might actually wait 2-3 more days before loop again, depending on the amount of wounding I caused)

This is just my personal procedure that I will follow, not endorsing it.

Are you only planning to apply the Cetirizine one time - in the entire two week period?
If yes, whats the reasoning behind that?

Thanks.

 

[Jacob]

So, the dermapen will cause less damage and smaller wound with faster recovery time. Is that a good thing for us when we want all that wound healing magic to happen?

I'm not sure the difference would be that great between the two. If you're looking for the most "damage"..go with something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Original-Microneedle-Vibrating-Function-Detachable/dp/B0043JIFCY ..although I'm not sure they have the needle lengths we're looking to use. I'm assuming the cheaper ones you see- like with the LED lights...don't vibrate much since I read a review saying that there was no vibration being felt on the head part itself. The one in the link is what I have and it vibrates plenty. Even with just a .25mm head I get that wanting to sneeze/watery eyes at times.

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Ok..don't know what's going on..but mas80's post disappeared.

 

[squeegee]

have you tried your 3.0 yet squeegee? any experience?

Nope, still recovering from my 2.5mm crazy roll from a week and half ago LOL. Taking a longer downtime.

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squeegee, about this,i guess you are in the second, totally bloody session; but in a combination of the first sessions also?
I confused....

I just copied and pasted some good info from a good derma rolling forum, I am very pleased to know that the more your bleed, better the results. : http://forums.owndoc.com/dermarolling-microneedling/


[video=youtube;yFNe2_9YJXs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFNe2_9YJXs[/video]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903

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Do you have baseline pictures?

No, I have no baseline pictures for now, I am going through a shed right now, so badexample! I will post my whole pumpkin at 12 weeks mark. Also, when I look at my pictures, I am fascinated to see that perifollicular fibrosis seems to be a big deal in male pattern baldness. The newborn bigger hairs are coming out of the punctured areas.

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http://www.derma-haarcenter.ch/files/Directory/News/06_07_2012/EHRS+2012+Barcelona.pdf

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WTF is Princess anyways? Get your arse back on the poney! Stop hiding, we all know that your are lurking!

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Jacob! Do you know any good retinol, retinoic acid cream??? I would be a guinea pig and add this to the rolling. **** Fibrosis!

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In my mind, your results proves the science works...for a home-based application to produce freakin' hair to grow in 9 weeks is cosmic when compared to finasteride and minoxidil s-h-i-t...and all the other s-h-i-t...this basically makes all the other forums on this site useless, except for the hair transplant forum...it makes ALL the other THREADS in this forum completely a waste of time -- unless they are derivatives of this approach --- jizz or no jizz lol!!

I kid, I kid...



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...and for me, this proves that Follica will work and it will be the next big thing...combined with Dr. Wesley's new approach to FUE, the days of being completely bald will be over for most men

Micro wounding works! I am just trying to tweak it a bit so the results are better than the study. Follica will cost a ****load of $$$ and the results will probably be mixed. Just like when eye laser surgery business started. It was far than perfect.

 

[hellouser]

That's a great idea, a simple blogspot should do the trick. However I think that we were getting pretty close to Follica with the patents. The way I see it is this, we really have most of the pieces of the puzzle already, the PGD2 blocker was one of the last and well even though it was released before that it affected male pattern baldness, we needed the last patent to sort of solidify the concept.

The largest piece of the puzzle will be solved when someone tries to inject or apply topically FGF-9 post wounding, a la proper Follica method. Until that happens, its going to be one long circle jerk. Bah.

 

[DesperateOne]

Are you only planning to apply the Cetirizine one time - in the entire two week period?
If yes, whats the reasoning behind that?

Thanks.

No, everyday after I mention Cet. I already mixed Cet with water yesterday and waiting to clean it up.

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The largest piece of the puzzle will be solved when someone tries to inject or apply topically FGF-9 post wounding, a la proper Follica method. Until that happens, its going to be one long circle jerk. Bah.

Well, we all know that buying fgf9 and experimenting is extremely dangerous. Specially since it's so powerful and maybe if we can get the thing delivered in premixed 10micrograms in a correct vehicle, then maybe some will try it. You would do us all a favor here, hellouser.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob! Do you know any good retinol, retinoic acid cream??? I would be a guinea pig and add this to the rolling. **** Fibrosis!

https://www.futurederm.com/Product/futurederm-time-release-retinol-0.5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18494915 (I'm assuming that Cylasphere one is available somewhere)

http://www.radiantskinclinic.com/products/product.php?productid=17391

While it doesn't contain RA..I still use that NanoFibrin product. It looks like some of the ingreds have been changed or taken out(will have to compare sometime) but it still gives the noggin that numb feeling after using it.

 

[squeegee]

https://www.futurederm.com/Product/futurederm-time-release-retinol-0.5

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18494915 (I'm assuming that Cylasphere one is available somewhere)

http://www.radiantskinclinic.com/products/product.php?productid=17391

While it doesn't contain RA..I still use that NanoFibrin product. It looks like some of the ingreds have been changed or taken out(will have to compare sometime) but it still gives the noggin that numb feeling after using it.

Sick! liposomal Retinoic acid!

 

[closetmetrosexual]

Do you know any good retinol, retinoic acid cream??? I would be a guinea pig and add this to the rolling.

Any tretinoin cream.

Women use this stuff for anti-aging/anti-wrinkle cream. I myself use it for anti-acne. It's the only thing that ever has worked for me. Its amazing stuff.

Problem is you need an Rx to get the cream.
But if you can get an Rx, this cream costs next to nothing from the Indian online pharmacies (their cream is the same as sold in the West, no worries)

 

[Jacob]

Sick! liposomal Retinoic acid!

Notice that radiant skin product also contains Tocotrienols and Coenzyme Q-10, etc.

 

[squeegee]

Perifollicular fibrosis: pathogenetic role in androgenetic alopecia.

Yoo HG, Kim JS, Lee SR, Pyo HK, Moon HI, Lee JH, Kwon OS, Chung JH, Kim KH, Eun HC, Cho KH.
Source

Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging and Hair Research, Clinical Research Institute, Seoul National University Hospital, and Institute of Dermatological Science, Seoul National University, Seoul, Korea.

Abstract

Androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) is a dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-mediated process, characterized by continuous miniaturization of androgen reactive hair follicles and accompanied by perifollicular fibrosis of follicular units in histological examination. Testosterone (T: 10(-9)-10(-7) M) treatment increased the expression of type I procollagen at mRNA and protein level. Pretreatment of finasteride (10(-8) M) inhibited the T-induced type I procollagen expression at mRNA (40.2%) and protein levels (24.9%). T treatment increased the expression of transforming growth factor-beta 1 (TGF-beta1) at protein levels by 81.9% in the human scalp dermal fibroblasts (DFs). Pretreatment of finasteride decreased the expression of TGF-beta1 protein induced by an average of T (30.4%). The type I procollagen expression after pretreatment of neutralizing TGF-beta1 antibody (10 microg/ml) was inhibited by an average of 54.3%. Our findings suggest that T-induced TGF-beta1 and type I procollagen expression may contribute to the development of perifollicular fibrosis in the Androgenetic Alopecia, and the inhibitory effects on T-induced procollagen and TGF-beta1 expression may explain another possible mechanism how finasteride works in Androgenetic Alopecia.

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Notice that radiant skin product also contains Tocotrienols and Coenzyme Q-10, etc.

Antioxidants and boost ATP locally.

I just bought some Organic Sulfur..

http://www.organicsulfur-msm.ca/order_OS_MSM.html

I am trying to boost the reconstruction process as much as I can.. **** hairloss!

MSM
Vitamin C + L-Proline/ L-Lysine
Silica
Serrapeptase & Nattokinase enzymes

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Any tretinoin cream.

Women use this stuff for anti-aging/anti-wrinkle cream. I myself use it for anti-acne. It's the only thing that ever has worked for me. Its amazing stuff.

Problem is you need an Rx to get the cream.
But if you can get an Rx, this cream costs next to nothing from the Indian online pharmacies (their cream is the same as sold in the West, no worries)

Totally! But our customs here in CANADA are among the best to track your **** LOL.. they seized so much of my crap, even had the cops showing up to my place I tried to import Miconazole Nitrate powder from China LOL

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The largest piece of the puzzle will be solved when someone tries to inject or apply topically FGF-9 post wounding, a la proper Follica method. Until that happens, its going to be one long circle jerk. Bah.

What is FGF-9? and where I can get some?

 

[hellouser]

What is FGF-9? and where I can get some?

You've been following the wounding/Follica news all this time and you haven't heard about FGF-9 until NOW? Youre kidding, right?

FGF-9 is THE ingredient that showed a WEALTH of new hair growth expressed in mice, and is likely to be the missing link in humans.

Wounding = Healing + minoxidil -> Expression of PGE2 which induces FGF-9.

It is a Fibroblast Growth Factor. When mice were wounded, and stripped away of FGF-9, they grew no hair back. But when FGF-9 was introduced back in, they great many more hairs...2-3X times as many. Follica's method mentions use of FGF-9. However, because its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton it MAY not pass through skin, though PrincessRambo mentioned that it is possible for substances with a mW of 40,000 dalton to pass through. Injection of FGF-9 using a diabetic needle with a saline solution as the vehicle should prove whether or not FGF-9 is or isn't the holy grail.

Only ONE way to find out and we need a guinea pig... but god DAMN the results could be what we've all been looking for.

 

[Jacob]

Squeegee..silica or BioSil/JarroSil?

 

[squeegee]

Squeegee..silica or BioSil/JarroSil?

that one!... http://www.vitacost.com/alta-health-products-silica-with-bioflavonoids I tried them all! That one you see a big difference, very fast! The other kinds that I tried, I was just pissing them out!

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Alta Health Silica provides the pure ortho form soluble/collodial Silica by means of special extraction process

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You've been following the wounding/Follica news all this time and you haven't heard about FGF-9 until NOW? Youre kidding, right?

FGF-9 is THE ingredient that showed a WEALTH of new hair growth expressed in mice, and is likely to be the missing link in humans.

Wounding = Healing + minoxidil -> Expression of PGE2 which induces FGF-9.



It is a Fibroblast Growth Factor. When mice were wounded, and stripped away of FGF-9, they grew no hair back. But when FGF-9 was introduced back in, they great many more hairs...2-3X times as many. Follica's method mentions use of FGF-9. However, because its molecular weight is 23,000 dalton it MAY not pass through skin, though PrincessRambo mentioned that it is possible for substances with a mW of 40,000 dalton to pass through. Injection of FGF-9 using a diabetic needle with a saline solution as the vehicle should prove whether or not FGF-9 is or isn't the holy grail.

Only ONE way to find out and we need a guinea pig... but god DAMN the results could be what we've all been looking for.

Thanks for the reply Hell! How much is that substance? easy to get? 23,000 dalton.. ouch!

 

[hellouser]

Thanks for the reply Hell! How much is that substance? easy to get? 23,000 dalton.. ouch!

http://www.prospecbio.com/FGF9_Human_2/?gclid=CM3u6paR1LkCFahcMgodXEUA1A

50 bucks for 5 micrograms. Apparently one doesn't need a whole lot of it to produce hair after wounding. 5mcg should suffice for a small test area. If it works in a small spot, then we know we need to buy more and apply wherever necessary.

Seeing how the skin is wounded and dermarolled, it should penetrate skin to some degree. Perhaps also exfoliating as well as shampooing (getting rid of sebum) would work.

 

[Jacob]

I guess Nanofibrin does contain retinyl palmitate....

Retinyl Palmitate is the the ester of Retinol (Vitamin A) combined with Palmitic Acid, a saturated fatty acid and a major component of palm oil. It is not considered to be the same ingredient as Retinol, although it is converted to Retinol, and then to the active component of Retinoic Acid once it is absorbed by the skin after being topically applied. It belongs to the family of chemical compounds known as Retinoids and is one of the most important vitamins for the appearance of the skin because of its small molecular structures. These tiny molecules have the ability to penetrate the outer layers of the skin and work to repair the lower layers where collagen and elastin reside

http://www.truthinaging.com/ingredients/retinyl-palmitate

It also contains tocopheryl nicotinate, which must part of what makes my scalp red after using it..as it's supposed to increase circulation etc.