New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[squeegee]

I hope you're not going by the pictures there. Some of us think those are of IH himself.

LOL, they look like it's him for sure.

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Well you're lucky you're a good candidate for a hair transplant, I am not. This disease should of had a cure long ago, it's just mind boggling the level of incompetence in the hair loss science community. Anyways, good luck, I know we talked **** to each other but in the end, we both are victims of this horrible disease.

On a side note, I rolled today and the pain was worse, the mint oil did almost nothing.

@Squeegee, how is that numbing cream you ordered working out for you?

Do you guys think it's a good idea to go to a local doctor and have him put me down for like 30 mins and do the procedure so it can be deep and bloody?

Despesrate.. I will say yes.. 3.0mm deep with topical Anastasia. Shave your pumpkin then go for it! Blood carry life essential for reconstruction, it is ok to bleed. Haven't tried the numb cream yet...

Listen to this old man..( Dr. Fernandez..) He is the king of Micro Needling, It is the best reconstruction technique, **** laser resurfacing or other crap.. Bleeding is good.

http://www.mtsroller.com/timeless-skin/
[video=youtube;uLCJ5VHTfiY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLCJ5VHTfiY#t=280[/video]
"If you don't bleed, you won't get the results and that is the part that most people aren't willing to do!" said Dr Fernandes

http://files.kotisivukone.com/karl-ludwig.kotisivukone.com/tiedostot/clinicsdermatology2008_pci.pdf

 

[ganonford]

Who's this "IH"?, why does he have such a bad rep?

 

[squeegee]

Who's this "IH"?, why does he have such a bad rep?

He didn't have a bad rep when he first started posting on various hairloss forums, but then put his own forum together and started to push some various products to people.. mostly supplements. The guy is not that bad, he's still pretty knowledgeable but his forum nowadays have the most retarded members. Amalgam filings will cause hairloss LOL

 

[Jacob]

^ Then he was caught plagiarizing...and still does to this day. At least one other over involved with their money-making part of things doesn't have the greatest rep either. People were complaining that they've been waiting I think 9 months for their LLLT helmets, and he's already got the money or most of it. Didn't respond to their emails. Or those posts about it. But jumps right in when it's time to post a link to their product line.

 

[squeegee]

^ Then he was caught plagiarizing...and still does to this day. At least one other over involved with their money-making part of things doesn't have the greatest rep either. People were complaining that they've been waiting I think 9 months for their LLLT helmets, and he's already got the money or most of it. Didn't respond to their emails. Or those posts about it. But jumps right in when it's time to post a link to their product line.

LOL.. IH got into laser helmets LOL hahaah what a bunch of ***s.. ! Topical lithium + laser helmet for an hour LOL get your fillings out as well hahahaha

 

[DesperateOne]

hey desperateone, i'm still haven't used my 1.5mm roller, but keep in mind that from searching about rollers, the specialist says that bigger needles has a very short lifetime.
After 10 uses max, (for 1.5mm roller) they become blunt and they must be replaced.
I don't know if a better quality roller last longer, but do your own research and check your needles.
My 0.75 roller has a lifetime about 6 months.

Thanks for the advice but this was a new 2.5mm roller I had just used once for like a test run, so I don't think it was that. Although I have used my 1.5mm for about two months so it might be going dull.

 

[waynakyo]

quick question: those people in pics on the first page, have they been using minoxidil before starting the minoxidil+dermaroll. Maybe it is minoxidil?
I have been doing dermarolling fo long time, but yes, not to the extent of having blood dripping on my eyes..

 

[odalbak]

Despesrate.. I will say yes.. 3.0mm deep with topical Anastasia. Shave your pumpkin then go for it!

You're giving advice when you don't have a clue of how thick and deep the human scalp is and the scalp of that guy in particular. Can you answer that simple question : what's the skin depth on temples or vertex of someone with long and severe male pattern baldness like a 40 years old guy with NW4? Stop playing the Sorcerer's apprentice on an international discussion forum when you don't know enough for it.

 

[squeegee]

You're giving advice when you don't have a clue of how thick and deep the human scalp is and the scalp of that guy in particular. Can you answer that simple question : what's the skin depth on temples or vertex of someone with long and severe male pattern baldness like a 40 years old guy with NW4? Stop playing the Sorcerer's apprentice on an international discussion forum when you don't know enough for it.

The doctor/practitioner will probably tell him which size to start with. They use 3.0mm in the face for acne scars and such. Big deal if it is on your scalp. He asked what we were thinking so I answered. Stop being such a b**ch odalbak.Your avatar goes well with you.

 

[odalbak]

Yours as well.

 

[Chromeo]

I don't have much time to elaborate on this today but I had a post about this before, as oda mentioned, and unfortunately I deleted the post after rage-quitting the forums the other day ... here it is again, read the note about picture a and b... I wish people will stop this confusion once and for all. Assessment was done at different time frame during the study (notably 6 weeks and 12 months as they mentioned, probably more) with microscopic photographic technology, hair has to be kept at the same length as day 1 to keep assessment consistent. This picture from the study says it all. I wish folks will read at least the studies posted :argue:.

*Sigh*. I've read the studies just fine. What I'm saying is this -



...is misleading because the pictures on the right are clearly marked as "Post treatment 12 weeks". This would lead me to believe these pictures were taken at the 12 week mark. Clearly they were not. By "post treatment 12 weeks" do they mean "pictures taken at any f*cking time after 12 weeks....could be 8 months...could be 2 years...could be any time at all, really" ?!!

What with this and the supposed admission that by "mild erythema" they actually meant "the dude's head was busted open"....I'm beginning to think the kids behind this study pretty much half-assed it.

Having said that, I remain hopeful.

Keep on rollin'.

 

[Jacob]

What with this and the supposed admission that by "mild erythema" they actually meant "the dude's head was busted open"....I'm beginning to think the kids behind this study pretty much half-assed it.

:uglylol:

But yeah...those pictures never seemed right to me anyway- the comb-over on the one especially.

And yet I too..still remain hopeful. I think I'm going to rotate with the vibrating roller though(squeegee..don't get any ideas). Give my scalp more of a rest from the gouging..while still giving it a workout from above on the non-gouging weeks.

 

[jason5]

What with this and the supposed admission that by "mild erythema" they actually meant "the dude's head was busted open"....I'm beginning to think the kids behind this study pretty much half-assed it.

Having said that, I remain hopeful.

Keep on rollin'.

Where did they say "the dude's head was busted open". ? I was under the impression they stopped rolling after small dots of blood appeared.

 

[squeegee]

Pubmed got the answer :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...dling+in+androgenetic+alopecia:+a+pilot+study.
A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: a pilot study.

Dhurat R, Sukesh M, Avhad G, Dandale A, Pal A, Pund P.
Source

Department of Dermatology, L.T.M. Medical College and General Hospital, Sion, Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:

Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Hundred cases of mild to moderate (III vertex or IV) androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) were recruited into 2 groups. After randomization one group was offered weekly microneedling treatment with twice daily 5% minoxidil lotion (Microneedling group); other group was given only 5% minoxidil lotion. After baseline global photographs, the scalp were shaved off to ensure equal length of hair shaft in all. Hair count was done in 1 cm(2) targeted fixed area (marked with tattoo) at baseline and at end of therapy (week 12). The 3 primary efficacy parameters assessed were: Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks, patient assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks, and investigator assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks. A blinded investigators evaluated global photographic response. The response was assessed by 7- point scale.

RESULTS:

(1) Hair counts - The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation - Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation - In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for Androgenetic Alopecia got good response with Microneedling treatment.
CONCLUSION:

Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy.


KEYWORDS:

Androgenetic alopecia, Microneedling, dermaroller, hair re-growth, signaling pathways

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:uglylol:

But yeah...those pictures never seemed right to me anyway- the comb-over on the one especially.

And yet I too..still remain hopeful. I think I'm going to rotate with the vibrating roller though(squeegee..don't get any ideas). Give my scalp more of a rest from the gouging..while still giving it a workout from above on the non-gouging weeks.

LOL.. DD's or AAA's batteries?

 

[jason5]

Posting an update and I have some results to show. Firstly note that I shave my head every week, so I can see results more quickly than usual:

I have outlined the areas of my head where I feel I have achieved actual regrowth of hair. I have been losing hair for at least 15 years (very diffused and basically bald) and only use dermaroller, minoxidil (lipogaine), regenepure and a OMG laser helmet. So far I've completed 8 sessions of dermarolling (No crazy bleeding, just redness with tiny specs of blood). Note, those red marks are from the laser helmet bristles I took the picture right after. I'm going to be adding capsaicin soon to my routine.

Also as I mentioned before, I'm getting a huge amount of vellus hair everywhere (Cannot be seen in this pic)

 

[Chromeo]

Where did they say "the dude's head was busted open". ? I was under the impression they stopped rolling after small dots of blood appeared.

Lol, they didn't actually say that, I was exaggerating of course. Apparently someone contacted them to clear up what they meant by "mild erythema" as most people using the 1.5mm needles were experiencing bleeding (myself included). Some users were arguing that drawing blood would be going too far and wouldn't be in line with the study. Allegedly the guy admitted that they were drawing blood during the procedure and that "mild erythema" may have been a bit of an understatement.

Thanks for the pics, keep us all updated and good luck!

 

[princessRambo]

is misleading because the pictures on the right are clearly marked as "Post treatment 12 weeks

I agree, the headline pics are misleading...

http://www.hotsauce.com/16-Million-PURE-Capsaicin-Crystals-2-0ml-p/hsc-16-million-crystals2.0.htm

I bought this, wish me luck

DO NOT USE THIS, this might kill you, I am not joking, don't even let this touch your finger, it will wound your skin for weeks with a very sharp pain... pure capsaicin can be very dangerous... Just get any 0.15% capsaicin from walgreens, they are very cheap. Also you should note that the hair inductive capacity of TRPV1 is dose dependent with very short burst activation of the vallinoid 1 signaling actually boosting hair growth. So do not leave it in for long period, too much activation will actually inhibit growth and can cause apoptosis, in culture I should say, I don't think you can even achieve such thing topically, but better tread on the safe side). I personally wash my hair after 10 or 15mn, when I start to feel the burn.

On a side note, I have dissolved my Cet pills and are ready to go, I will do my session tonight and hope for the best.

I hope you only used water for this and not mixing it with anything... on a side note, cetirizine for WIHN sounds very promising. Cet, it seems acts downstream of DP2 (CRTH2) through inhibition of eosinophilia to mediate some of it effects, so it can only be good to add it.

 

[opti]

i dont know how u can go with 1,5mm+ ...im bleeding even with 0,5mm and it hurts like *****.Something to reduce pain expect anesthesia?
[h=3][/h]

 

[benjt]

opti, I am pretty sure that this depends on how tight/fibrotic your scalp tissue is. I made two observations:
- after my third rolling session both the level of pain and the amount of blood drawn significantly decreased every subsequent rolling session. I did my latest rolling session yesterday and I hardly drew any blood. On my first session my whole scalp was covered in one bloody crust.
- scalp massages help tremendously in scalp tissue permuteability. They also reduce both pain and bleeding. Do the massages thoroughly.

I presume your Androgenetic Alopecia is rather advanced?

@ odalbak: As I said, the authors of the study went for 1.5 mm for a reason. I read up on scalp skin thickness and even in the worst cases of Androgenetic Alopecia/male pattern baldness, there is noone with less than 1.5 mm of skin (epidermis, dermis, subcutis). 1.5 mm should be completely safe to use (except if you dont desinfect properly).

@ squeegee: Frakkin cut it out. The thread got back on topic finally and everybody was all peaceful. Stop getting verbal with people for no reason.

@ the other rolling folks: I already posted my observations of pain and bleeding decrease in one of my last posts in this thread but got no reply. Can anyone confirm my observations, i.e., an increase in scalp flexibility and a decrease in pain and the amount of blood drawn?

 

[Jlyncher]

Posting an update and I have some results to show. Firstly note that I shave my head every week, so I can see results more quickly than usual:

I have outlined the areas of my head where I feel I have achieved actual regrowth of hair. I have been losing hair for at least 15 years (very diffused and basically bald) and only use dermaroller, minoxidil (lipogaine), regenepure and a OMG laser helmet. So far I've completed 8 sessions of dermarolling (No crazy bleeding, just redness with tiny specs of blood). Note, those red marks are from the laser helmet bristles I took the picture right after. I'm going to be adding capsaicin soon to my routine.

Also as I mentioned before, I'm getting a huge amount of vellus hair everywhere (Cannot be seen in this pic)

Looking good man, roll on!