New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Koga]

Bull**** !

No, seriously. Why not using your own semen? It's free and easily available.

Wait, whut? Topical application of semen is a real treatment for hair loss? Is there a thread on this forum about this? What's the science behind it?

 

[albert]

Some of you are mentioning the scalp massage approach, which I am also starting to believe on it. How do you think it would be the best way to perform the massage for this matter?

 

[opti]

Some of you are mentioning the scalp massage approach, which I am also starting to believe on it. How do you think it would be the best way to perform the massage for this matter?

pretty easy massage scalp and it wont even take long

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjddeikoYSI

sry bout it beeing a german video , 1;50 + ,you just need to watch the technique
you just need to pull your skin on the sides etc up.I tried it and my hear got pretty red and i felt the blood flowing in my skin

 

[Bombarie]

http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/my_approach.htm This is about training your galea and frontalis to make your head skin looser! He swears that it can halt hearloss and regrow hair on the hairline! I`m doing this technique also for a few weeks and i can control the muscles very well now! So i`m doing this scalp excersize and i`m dermarolling and put minoxidil mixed with ascj-9 wich has pure curcumin in it

 

[ganonford]

Some of you are mentioning the scalp massage approach, which I am also starting to believe on it. How do you think it would be the best way to perform the massage for this matter?

In a little study posted somewhere around some weeks ago, they recommended two masseges a day of 20 minutes each...

Wait, whut? Topical application of semen is a real treatment for hair loss? Is there a thread on this forum about this? What's the science behind it?

There was a thread about the properties of human semen backed up by a lot of studies. Theres is science behind the idea, A LOT.

Yeah, some may find it gross or ridiculous, but letting that aside, the truth is, semen has amazing properties which could very well help us. Sadly, the thread was deleted.

Still, maybe we should let semen out of this thread (just maybe)... don't get me wrong... I think it is amazing, I myself am using it. But as some people in here don't like it, maybe we should put it aside in order to mantain order. (Not so long ago, there was a war between semen advocates and semen detractors... the fight was very unhealthy to this thread...)

 

[albert]

Wow thank you all for your quick and helpful responses! Will do scalp massaging daily along with weekly dermarolling and will keep reporting.

 

[mlb]

I also use topical EGCG + resveratrol (tried topical curcumin but the yellow stain is unbearable).

Not to sidetrack things, but this new curcumin product recently launched and is apparently a white powder...could be interesting.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...ects-so-with-game-changing-Curcumin-C3-Reduct

 

[squeegee]

In a little study posted somewhere around some weeks ago, they recommended two masseges a day of 20 minutes each...



There was a thread about the properties of human semen backed up by a lot of studies. Theres is science behind the idea, A LOT.

Yeah, some may find it gross or ridiculous, but letting that aside, the truth is, semen has amazing properties which could very well help us. Sadly, the thread was deleted.

Still, maybe we should let semen out of this thread (just maybe)... don't get me wrong... I think it is amazing, I myself am using it. But as some people in here don't like it, maybe we should put it aside in order to mantain order. (Not so long ago, there was a war between semen advocates and semen detractors... the fight was very unhealthy to this thread...)

Ganon.. I really don't care if people wanna put gallons of semen on their head. It is probably a good add-on or hair growth booster but this is it. If you guys want to restart a thread about it. Go ahead! Having this stupid conversation about dumping sperm on your pumpkin damages credibility of this thread and confuse people that are here for the derma roller subject in the first place.

 

[Jorged]

Hello all,


First post, regular reader for years. I have been following this thread almost from the very beginning and I am also doing the dermarolling trial.




> Background information: "From there I come from"


Current situation: Age 31, Norwood.2 with some vertex hairloss. Several visible miniaturized vellus along the front.


Current regimen: Finas (1mg - every other day), minoxidil (Polaris NR07 twice per day), Fat Metaboliser (Vit B6, Chromium, Cayenne Pepper, Green Tea, L-Carnetine, Kola Nut, Uva Ursi - twice per day), MSM (750mg - once per day), Multivitamin complex (once every other day), Revita shampoo (once every other day).


I have been using minoxidil for almost 6 years now (I was a big fan of Spectral, but after spending a lot of money in their latest inventions - F7, DNC-N, DNC-L ... - and not getting results anymore I changed to Polaris which is cheaper). I have been using finas almost one year now (I used it for almost 4 years before, but I stopped it because... well because I got scared with all the sides info in forums. To be honest I never had any sides with finas, but a low-mild acne). After adding finas again to my regimen I have recovered most of my crown. The front area is another story. minoxidil alone was not powerfull enough to maintain my hairline. Since the addition of finas, the hairloss is controlled, overall hair looks thicker, but all the blond vellus along the hairline just remain vellus, which sucks big time, because if I could make them become terminal then I would be ready to go. On the way along this almost 8 years (time flies) fighting againts this sickness, waiting for Intercitex (plof), Bimatoprost (plof), Aderans (plof), Histogen (?), Replicel (?), Follica (?) and now also on Team Tokyo (??), I have tried several other alternative PLOF treatments




> Dermarolling Trial: "There will be blood"


Yesterday I did my 4th dermarolling session. Basically I am following the original study: I dermaroll once every 7 days, and start appling minoxidil again 24h afterwards. I am using a 1mm needle lenght dermaroll - because I get confussed when I ordered it, will get a 1.5mm next time - but this lenght may be enough for me because I have been bleeding more and more in every session and from the very beginning. I do also use a saline water solution with betadine (as stated in the studio) for cleaning the scalp before rock and rolling and afterwards to clean the bloody mess.


I bleed big time the last 2 sessions and I don't think I pushed or rolled harder than before. Also (it may be only me), but the redness and pain (inflammation), in my scalp usually last for 2-3 days after dermarrolling, I even feel a bit sick the day after dermarolling, like today. I can literally feel the inflammation in my scalp, like when you fall and you have an open wound that is healing. I can not for example comb my hair or even touch my scalp without shivering


Obviously there is not much to report yet. I see the skin in my scalp is starting to peel, specially along the hairline. I also see some very little black dots in between the peach fuzz vellus hair (in particular where the needle seems to have dig a hole in the scalp), but maybe is just placebo. In any case, I don't expect magic in 4 weeks, I will indeed keep the trial as it is till the end of December, then I will decide if I add something else to improve it, in any case I will keep rock and rolling, as I deeply believe there may be something quite interesting about this damage-healing-awakening process, any treatment requires min. 6 months to be judged and well, I don't have anything to lose (but a lot to win if it is true that the new cells copy cat present hair cells in the surroundings, I really have a lot of miniaturized blond hair, they are just lazy).


I am shooting some pics with my phone for reference, quality will not be great sorry.


Also thanks for all the research guys, it all sounds chinese to me, but thanks anyway!!! And sorry for any spelling mistake, english is not my native tongue

 

[Jaded]

Ok so thanks to this thread i just had to shave my head. Dermarolled for the first time and that **** plucked so many hair i had to spot and shave the head (6mm). My question is... if you need to dermaroll weakly or once in 2 week whatever, how do you grow hair if you keep damaging the existing hair? Even for completely bald guys that indeed regrow hair at some point dermarolling will take more hair than it gives.

I sooner use a individual needle on my scalp choosing carefully spots without hair than dermaroll again

 

[Jorged]

@Jaded - I have short-medium lenght hair (4-5 cm), and I don't pluck any hair when I dermaroll ?!?! (well ok, maybe 2). I clean the scalp with the water saline & betadine solution which wet the hair enough to allow me to use the dermaroller smoothly.

 

[albert]

Ok so thanks to this thread i just had to shave my head. Dermarolled for the first time and that **** plucked so many hair i had to spot and shave the head (6mm). My question is... if you need to dermaroll weakly or once in 2 week whatever, how do you grow hair if you keep damaging the existing hair? Even for completely bald guys that indeed regrow hair at some point dermarolling will take more hair than it gives.

I sooner use a individual needle on my scalp choosing carefully spots without hair than dermaroll again

I guess keeping the hair short is the trick (for people who actually can have it that way - I do). Shaving of course is another option. You can also buy a dermapen as suggested before on this thread, or either use the dermaroller a dermapen (instead of "rolling", just put the roller in a specific place, push - so the needles go inside -, then pull it out, repeat).

 

[princessRambo]

pretty easy massage scalp and it wont even take long http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjddeikoYSI

Nice video, you can actually turn caption on and translate it to English (you gotta love google ), some of the translated sentences are hilarious. Pretty informative video though.

@DesperateOne: are you sure you have male pattern baldness? Did you get a proper diagnosis? You losing hair on the sides implies it does not follow the pattern in male pattern baldness, looks like an early onset of alopecia totalis or some weird variant of AA, but the good news is, most of those are treatable.

I agree that this thread is getting too long, I think I will create a new thread where we can summarize the findings here and can talk freely about any helpful growth factor, including dragon fins . Maybe someone else can create another thread where we only post results so far specifying exactly what methods is being used? In that way this thread can remain focused on the Indian study.

 

[DesperateOne]

Nice video, you can actually turn caption on and translate it to English (you gotta love google ), some of the translated sentences are hilarious. Pretty informative video though.

@DesperateOne: are you sure you have male pattern baldness? Did you get a proper diagnosis? You losing hair on the sides implies it does not follow the pattern in male pattern baldness, looks like an early onset of alopecia totalis or some weird variant of AA, but the good news is, most of those are treatable.

I agree that this thread is getting too long, I think I will create a new thread where we can summarize the findings here and can talk freely about any helpful growth factor, including dragon fins . Maybe someone else can create another thread where we only post results so far specifying exactly what methods is being used? In that way this thread can remain focused on the Indian study.

No I never got a proper diagnosis, the only time I went to a doctor to have a look at it was to get a prescription to finasteride. Since he is just a general doctor I don't think he knew a lot to be honest.
This is like the first time I heard of alopecia totalis or might have disregard it at some point. So it would be best to go to a dermatologist to get a proper diagnosis? Well I just read a bit and I know I shouldn't get my hopes up but if it's that then maybe I can go back to normal.

I do have the regular pattern on top but I have lost even more ground on the sides, which I have always found very weird. Even worse, it is creeping to the back of my suppose to be donor hair. Is there
any way I can determine by myself if I have this? I don't really have the money right now.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok so thanks to this thread i just had to shave my head. Dermarolled for the first time and that **** plucked so many hair i had to spot and shave the head (6mm). My question is... if you need to dermaroll weakly or once in 2 week whatever, how do you grow hair if you keep damaging the existing hair? Even for completely bald guys that indeed regrow hair at some point dermarolling will take more hair than it gives.

I sooner use a individual needle on my scalp choosing carefully spots without hair than dermaroll again

i also noted that when I did the rolling, I ended up shedding some of my existing hair, actually quite a lot of them.

 

[Koga]

i also noted that when I did the rolling, I ended up shedding some of my existing hair, actually quite a lot of them.

Try using a dermastamp instead of a dermaroller.

 

[squeegee]

I've been studying NF-Kappa B for years.My ex- gf used to have Chron's disease and I am also interested in immortality.. I am not an expert of inflammation yet but I accumulated a lot of knowledge over the years.

https://www.fightaging.org/archives/2011/04/nf-b-inhibition-extends-life-in-flies.php

Vinpocetine inhibits NF-kappaB-dependent inflammation via an IKK-dependent but PDE-independent mechanism


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20448200

Glutathione depletion down-regulates tumor necrosis factor alpha-induced NF-kappaB activity via IkappaB kinase-dependent and -independent mechanisms.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17690092

Dihydrotestosterone promotes vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 expression in male human endothelial cells via a nuclear factor-kappaB-dependent pathway.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14684616

Dihydrotestosterone Promotes VCAM-1 Expression in Male
Human Endothelial Cells via a NF-
κ
B Dependent Pathway

http://endo.endojournals.org/content/early/2003/12/18/en.2003-0789.full.pdf

Gamma-tocotrienol inhibits nuclear factor-kappaB signaling pathway through inhibition of receptor-interacting protein and TAK1 leading to suppression of antiapoptotic gene products and potentiation of apoptosis.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17114179

Role of NF-κB in the Anti-Inflammatory Effects of Tocotrienols


http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2010.10719848?journalCode=uacn20#.UlbylhA2HPg

Suppression of NF-kappabeta signaling pathway by tocotrienol can prevent diabetes associated cognitive deficits.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19138703





Just a few...

 

[DesperateOne]

Not to sidetrack things, but this new curcumin product recently launched and is apparently a white powder...could be interesting.

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...ects-so-with-game-changing-Curcumin-C3-Reduct

That looks promising, I remember trying quercetin and it also has a very nasty yellow after glow to it. I actually tried to filter it out with some charcoal and coffee filters but it was completely useless.

 

[squeegee]

Remember that study with tocotrienols?

The results are really good but where fibrosis is settled, no hair grow at all! This is another visual example that dermal fibrosis is the "c*** block" of the progenitor cells.




http://www.tocotrienol.org/images/s...tsuprabio hair loss prevention and beyond.pdf

http://ernd.usm.my/journal/journal/TLSR 21-2-8-(91-99).pdf

 

[selfaware]

PR, interesting info about 4hr saturation on minoxidil...thanks for that.

- The DNC-L product is 'somed' and they claim it's also a timed-release...over 12hrs, as I recall.

- I tend to apply it 3 times a day anyway, not 2. Essentially, I'm trying to keep a continuous flow, so...keep working new 'somes' into the skin, as the timed-release particles time out.

- Studies say minoxidil has near a linear concentration/response curve....so 10% is twice as effective as 5%. Yet, all that defines 'concentration' is the initial alcohol content in the bottle. So it's interesting to consider frequency-of-application and concentration together....is the one equivalent to the other?

- I've left the cap off a bottle of Kirkland 5%. I'm thinking that as the alcohol evaporates, I'll get 10%. Probably no more than that, because (I think), the alc. is only about 50% of the solution...maybe only 30%...which would give me 7-8% minoxidil. In any case, I'm not sure ANY alc. is needed when using it with DR. Does anyone have info on this?

- Since minoxidil is an everyday thing between DR's, and emu can be applied constantly after waiting the first 6-24 hrs after DR, then it seems one could evap. off the alc. from Kirkland, and dump the remainder into emu oil....and be applying 7-10% minoxidil in emu. This should give the better response of higher concentrations noted in studies, and without any alcohol irritation, and without getting a scrip, or paying for the "Doctor-only" 10%. That's the path I'm following for now anyway. See how it works...

Yeah, about the waiting stuff I said way earlier in the thread that a week was too short the way many people were stabbing their head . I still feel like many people should just follow the derma roller trial and do light wounding (no blood), wait one week and then repeat. If you don't have a fgf9 or at least pge2, having minoxidil indirectly inducing fgf9 is a long shot. At least you will have enough growth factors weekly to help existing follicle, probably the way the massaging theory works. Cots is telling us in the video below to not go all cheese grater on your shiny heads unless we have fgf9, lucky bastard with a full head of almost negative norwood:

[video=youtube;gaLaMBHIdBs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaLaMBHIdBs[/video]

Also the unpigmented white hair they are discussing in the mouse wound, hellouser reported a long unpigmented terminal looking hair, wonder if anybody is seeing this.


about my topicals: you already know one of them , I use Calciportriol every other day (occasionally every 3 days). I use capsaicin mixed with keto 1% + caffeine shampo 3 times a day (stays on for 10-15mn), yeah lots of broscientist will tell you that keto should only be used couple of times a week, I say, show me a single study claiming that, it's something that's been repeated over and over without any facts behind it.
In fact the japanese study on 2% keto vs 2% minoxidil used a cream that stayed on all night.

I also use topical EGCG + resveratrol (tried topical curcumin but the yellow stain is unbearable). I also have different mixtures combining capsaicin with EGCG and resveratrol as a leave in topical, but it is not a high concentration of cap, otherwise, leaving it in burns like a mofo. I have now included minoxidil 4 times a day to my daily regiment since I started the wounding thing.

Again some people will say that will stop your heart, I say, broscience, in fact there is study that tried application of minoxidil 2 4 6 and 8 times a day and they didn't find any more systemic increase from 8 times to 2 times, the authors concluded that the initial application saturates the scalp enough to prevent further systemic absorption. So if you are not sensitive to a single dose of topical minoxidil's system effect, you will like not feel anything different applying 8 times a day.

Now does that work better? The study didn't investigate the efficacy, but only the systemic absorption. Lots of people concluded from that study that 2 times is as much efficient as 8 times, but that again is broscience because 4h is maximum absorption time of minoxidil, so it stands to reason that if you space them out by 4h, you are likely benefiting the hair follicles (I tend to go off topic sometimes). Sorry for the typos, typing on my cellphone while trying to catch up on Homeland

Reason I love curcumin so much, well, I am telling you guys, that little molecule is magical. At least I might live longer:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/may/01/scientists-ageing-process



What is the most potent inhibitor of NF Kb? Curcumin, even more so when combined with resveratrol. It seems NF KB pops its ugly head in almost all known inflammatory diseases.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you know of one that will ship it without an Rx?
I've looked at 10 or so. They all want Rx in order for you to complete the order.

Closet, I was going to say that I've never been asked for a scrip...then I realized that all along I've selected IOP's by that criteria, amongst others. I.e., ones that obviously don't give a rat's a** about scrips...lol.

My recco would be to join the IOPlist forum. The info you seek is there. Good fortune to you Closet...

 

[baldnesssadness]

COX is the enzyme responsible for creating the prostaglandins, kind of like 5AR is responsible for the formation of DHT. Cox is a family of enzymes including COX 1 2 and 3. In some environments (like asthma) COX 1 can induces PGD2, in others, PGD2 induction is primarily due to COX 2. This is the reason why I think that selectively targeting either one is a shot in the dark.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20880055



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14698037

Ibuprophen strongly inhibits both COX 1 and 2 (which will certainly block PGE2), the other thing is that its half life is relatively short.

One of the reason I think the calcitriol analogue helped me is that it strongly inhibits COX2 (at least in the prostate) and significantly upgulates wnt/bcatenin in the hair follicle.

http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/26/4A/2525.abstract


That said, I wonder why people think that using propylene glycol or alcohol as a vehicle for a substance like cetirizine that has an insanely high water solubility is a good idea :wow: I mean, water is used to dilute substances like PPG and enhance their skin permeability (for solution that are PPG soluble, but not water soluble). But for something that is crazy water soluble like cet, given that water, having only a molecular weight of about 18 g/mol and already permeates extremely easily through the skin, why would you mix it with anything that might interfere or waste the disolved substance in the first place? 8O

The person who made this is a very respectable chemist. He has helped forum members when it comes to chemistry in baldness i trust him. But since you had a point i gave him the message his reply was.

if water soluble substances penetrate so good..why when bathing for hours in the dead sea with a salinity of 33% peoples not died in 10 minutes...

water penetrate nothing..water evaporate quickliy and create the ilusion of penetration.

water evaporate quickly ...10% pg in water, after 10 min the water is gone and you have 80% pg on the skin

doesn't matter how diluted pg is...pg dont evaporte even in 1 month not

you are a respected forum member, but this guy's reputation is great.

so by using cox1 blocker we dont have to worry about pgd2 blocker? because blocking cox1 stops pgd2 in the first place?