RIKEN Announcement: Succeeded in Developing Tech for HF Regenerative Medicine: Study to be Published Feb 10

44core

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Tissue doesn't find a partner either. I have contacted them and they say that nobody wants to invest in hair loss products because too often projects have failed in the past.
Sad.. when did they say that to you? I have had more faith in SHT than in Tsuji.
 

MeDK

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It's weird that they want to go straight to humans from the pre-clinical work in mice. You would assume that they would also do a pre-clinical study in NHPs (non-human primates). Maybe I'm missing something here though.

The way Tsuji is asking for money now and the fact that the twitter channel is re-twetting stuff about Trump makes this all look pretty unprofessional.

well a mouse isn't a primate, so they did a NHPs pre-clinical as you call it. So its quite normal.

What they need now is entire to human clinical trails, and if they want to do phase 2 conditional release in Japan, they need to do a proof of concept in humans first.

Then again, I don't know if RIKEN see their own method like regenerative medicine, or therapeutic cloning, even though in a stretch it could be within the same category.
 

frank33

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It's weird that they want to go straight to humans from the pre-clinical work in mice. You would assume that they would also do a pre-clinical study in NHPs (non-human primates). Maybe I'm missing something here though.

The way Tsuji is asking for money now and the fact that the twitter channel is re-twetting stuff about Trump makes this all look pretty unprofessional.
Japan is less strict about regulations, and allows them to go straight to Human testing.
Practically, there's no advantage in doing pre-clinical studies on NHPs (other than safety reasons and regulations) because there's always the possibility that what you find doesen't work on humans.
It's much more convenient to test their technology directly on humans and adjust it to make it work once and for all.

Regarding twitter strange behaviour, i think that trump retweet is simply an error.
The social media manager behind the account maybe is unexperienced and learning, it doesen't mean everything is a scam.
 

MeDK

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How could immune defense be a problem when you are using your own cells?
Mice used don't have modified genes, they modify them to undestand their relation with diseases, but this is not the case.
Again, no immune defense problem to overcome as long as you are using your own cells.
Blood flow doesen't seem to be a problem in hair transplants, not even in crazy Zarev's 12k+ FU

That is what is being the "short cut", so your body acknowledges your own cells, but when its being cultivated, there is a chance of them being mutated (and if you cultivate/multiple cells too much mutations start to happen) and we are going back instead of forward. There is a safefy margin for the cultivation to prevent this, and that number isn't infinite.

If you pull out a mouse study, you will see i many cases they are immune deficient.

Well flow IS a problem when you want to do high density, remember hair transplants aren't even close to your own natural hair density. The techniques are simply not good enough. So they don't encounter that problem for now. Also remember you don't keep 100% of your transplanted hair, there is a loss.
 

MeDK

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@MeDK
Your opinion to Stemson?

Stemson have a very different business plan.

Their end goal is having a bank of iPSC and then offer treatment. So no matter how much or little hair you have left, your doctor makes an order and they supply the doctor with what is needed for your transplant.

As the fan boy I am, i'm still hoping for Replicel.

Because its regenerative, so in my hate the perfect result would be to rebuild what i once had. And because they are actually working on humans. So we are not talking about distant future, but about things actually happening. Sure their solution for now isn't a perfect result, but for me its easier to work with.

If i remember RIKENs method, about cultivating and then inject with nylon threads and such, it introduces too many factors that i'm not willing to go with.

And stemson with "generic" iPSC bank, it just doesn't attract me.

But RIKEN and Stemson have the same common problem, non of them have proved to be working in humans. So for now they are an interesting angle, but still a "lab-project".

I will say that i do hope they offer something in the future, but i won't believe we are talking near future.
 

frank33

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That is what is being the "short cut", so your body acknowledges your own cells, but when its being cultivated, there is a chance of them being mutated (and if you cultivate/multiple cells too much mutations start to happen) and we are going back instead of forward. There is a safefy margin for the cultivation to prevent this, and that number isn't infinite.

If you pull out a mouse study, you will see i many cases they are immune deficient.

Well flow IS a problem when you want to do high density, remember hair transplants aren't even close to your own natural hair density. The techniques are simply not good enough. So they don't encounter that problem for now. Also remember you don't keep 100% of your transplanted hair, there is a loss.
Selection of non mutated cells is a requirement in Japan for stem cells treatments.


Not in this case, otherwise they would have mentioned.

Most of the times hair transplant are far from our natural density because of the lack of FU from safe donor area.
As i've said in another post before, atm there's a bottle cap, which is FU availability, so developing techniques to increase density nowadays would be useless, because most of us have not much more tha 5000 FU in their safe area. I strongly suggest you to visit Dr. Zarev's instagram page to see what we are able to achieve, even with today's techinques.
Regarding loss of transplanted hair, if you have relatively endless FU availability, you can have a treatment done every 5 years to regain what is lost.
 

coolio

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Existing transplant methods can easily do 60-70% of original density, if there is no donor hair shortage and the process has multiple sessions. That should be enough. Guys usually don't even notice their hair is thinning until it's down to 50-60% of original density.

Most transplants lack density because the patient lacks the donor hair. It's not a limitation of the transplant methods.
 
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frank33

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Existing transplant methods can easily do 60-70% of original density, if there is no donor hair shortage and the transplants are spread over at least two sessions. That should be enough. Guys usually don't even notice their hair is thinning until it's down to 50-60% of original density.
12k Graft
If everyone had donor areas this capable, hair loss would not be a thing
20210214_113637.jpg
 

frank33

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Stemson have a very different business plan.

Their end goal is having a bank of iPSC and then offer treatment. So no matter how much or little hair you have left, your doctor makes an order and they supply the doctor with what is needed for your transplant.

As the fan boy I am, i'm still hoping for Replicel.

Because its regenerative, so in my hate the perfect result would be to rebuild what i once had. And because they are actually working on humans. So we are not talking about distant future, but about things actually happening. Sure their solution for now isn't a perfect result, but for me its easier to work with.

If i remember RIKENs method, about cultivating and then inject with nylon threads and such, it introduces too many factors that i'm not willing to go with.

And stemson with "generic" iPSC bank, it just doesn't attract me.

But RIKEN and Stemson have the same common problem, non of them have proved to be working in humans. So for now they are an interesting angle, but still a "lab-project".

I will say that i do hope they offer something in the future, but i won't believe we are talking near future.
I think you are mistaking Stemson for HairClone.
 

Pls_NW-1

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i understand your point of view.
but the big difference is that Replicel will not be a cure.
so we are dependent on alternatives.

Replicel will bring a maximum of 30 percent.


with Stemson and Tsuji, however, I fear side effects. I'm scared of cysts or even cancer. How likely do you think that is?
In theory:

Stemson is creating the follicles outside of your scalp and then they implant the lolli-up within the biodegradable scaffold into your scalp. There shouldn't be a problem, however, further trials will show if it's really SAFE and EFFECTIVE.
 

GotHair?

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I have a question. If we want to donate to Riken they are accepting Japanese yen but I can only pay euros or dollars from my debit card. Will I be able to donate?
 

MeDK

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i understand your point of view.
but the big difference is that Replicel will not be a cure.
so we are dependent on alternatives.

Replicel will bring a maximum of 30 percent.


with Stemson and Tsuji, however, I fear side effects. I'm scared of cysts or even cancer. How likely do you think that is?

This thing with Replicel is, that we don't know if it works multiple times.

We know one injection isn't enough, we don't know if multiple injections is going to have much higher gains (which the 2nd phase 2 is going to look into.)

Then there is question, if i had the procedure done 1 year ago, and do it again, will i then be able to increase density that way?
 

MeDK

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Selection of non mutated cells is a requirement in Japan for stem cells treatments.


Not in this case, otherwise they would have mentioned.

Most of the times hair transplant are far from our natural density because of the lack of FU from safe donor area.
As i've said in another post before, atm there's a bottle cap, which is FU availability, so developing techniques to increase density nowadays would be useless, because most of us have not much more tha 5000 FU in their safe area. I strongly suggest you to visit Dr. Zarev's instagram page to see what we are able to achieve, even with today's techinques.
Regarding loss of transplanted hair, if you have relatively endless FU availability, you can have a treatment done every 5 years to regain what is lost.

Of course, no one wants to implant mutated cells, not only in japan they want to avoid that.

You have a thing called scar tissue, I don't know if hair transplaints can handle scar tissue, so if you already have done some procedures i don't think the "endless transplant" idea is going to work.

But high density is a problem in relation to blood flow, it have been shown before, and high density we are talking +200 pr cm2 and not the 60 - 70 pr cm2
 

pegasus2

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Well seems a multi billion dollar company, Shiseido still believes in it hence them conducting an new study/trial.

Meanwhile Tsuji is begging for money online
It can certainly provide maintenance with periodic injections, but that's the best it will do.
 

Joxy

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Well seems a multi billion dollar company, Shiseido still believes in it hence them conducting an new study/trial.

Meanwhile Tsuji is begging for money online
Dr.Tsuji’s contribution for hair loss science is tremendous. What he had done for fighting Androgenic Alopecia in 8 years, Cotsarelis and Christiano haven’t done even an half in 30 years of their research.

His method is very legit, his paper is reviewed by one of the most credible science institutions (Nature), this breakthrough research is shared by many top science websites last couple of days, so big companies will come to him. It is matter of time. The good part is that this method can be perfected and optimized in future.
 

nahte42

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So how long will clinical trials take once begun, and how long after finished will the procedure be available to the public?
 

Joxy

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So how long will clinical trials take once begun, and how long after finished will the procedure be available to the public?
Clinical trials will last at least 2-3 years, but this procedure it will be only for limited number of people in next 10 years. Firstly, it will be only in Japan. Secondly, if other companies wants to translate this technology in their countries must spend years of clinical trials and training doctors to do the procedure properly.
 
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