Scaring myself into a hermit life

[GeminiX]

This is probably true in some cases, your ability to sell yourself whatever your grades or experience also counts.
But yeah looks will have some impact even if only on a subconcious level.
It also depends on the job itself, if we're talking about unskilled labour then yeah you might aswell go for the best looking candidate but if its a job where performance really matters and looks dont help then they'll possibly hire the best performer, although in many jobs how do they really know performance until after they've hired you?

I agree, looks have *some* influence in an interview, but it's minimal.

As I've stated in many other posts (which are always ignored by Club Negative), there are some jobs where looks are important; very few though and generally low paid / commission based.

I'm still chuckling at the idea of the worlds top business staffed by beautiful, but stupid people trying to work out how to work the photocopier.

 

[superfrankie]

although in many jobs how do they really know performance until after they've hired you?

They dont. Thats why they give the good looking people more chances to show what they can do. Dont tell me its bullshit.

 

[bigentries]

Dudemons example above shows that competence is secondary in most jobs.

Let me give an example myself, I know a few girls and those girls may be dumb as sh*t but fortunately for them they have "the looks", and that alone has given them tremendous, free opportunities on the job market. The same with guys who are considered to be "hot" by the general public. Actually, I have never heard that those people who I know that qualifiy for this category, male or female, have been unemployed. On the other side of the coin, people who are less good looking or ugly have had more trouble getting a job, even if they have more competence than the good looking ones.

...and dont tell me its all about confidence, because its not.

I have a problem believing all these claims thanks to personal experience.

I am a very ugly guy, seriously, girls have straight told me right in my face I was too ugly, and this is when I didn't had any hair loss problems.
I suffered from years of low self-esteem until I started to don't give a damn. I don't say I'm extremely happy with my life, but there are a lot of ugly dudes out there who seem happy so I guess I must be doing something wrong.

Anyway, since I joined the workforce I have not encountered problems on getting a job.
You should all become IT professionals, I said before I have encountered cases of reverse look-ism before

 

[superfrankie]

...and dont tell me its only about confidence, because its not.

Yes it is, but sadly I doubt you'll ever be able to understand that.

So based on your asumption, is it all about confidence at the dating scene aswell?

 

[GeminiX]

I would be prepared to bet that your demeanour has the biggest impact on your failures, and that is something which is incredibly important in an interview.

I can agree with that one. But looks is also a part of how they will perceive you. Im ready to say that people generally are far more willing to compromise with someone`s interior imperfections if they have the right appearance.

Nope, they aren't.

Any employer / interviewer / HR rep understands than someone with an unpleasant personality will be much more of a liability risk than someone who has average looks.

Statistically (I can look these up if required), the miserable person will complain, upset co-workers, be off sick more often, generally be poor at the job, or lack enthusiasm etc.

Meanwhile the average looking Joe will just get along and fit the curve.

This is not rocket science guys; companies have to get stuff done and make money. What matters is who is best suited to the job and will offer the best return on the companies investment, not who has the best quiff.

Of course there is the occasional dodgy boss or horrible creep, but in reality they are not around for long unless they are fictional characters in TV shows.

 

[superfrankie]

I just want to clarify to everyone that NO, looks are not everything and YES, you can get a job with the right confidence, even if you are ugly. The point is that the ugly guy with confidence will still have a hard time competing with the good looking guy (since he also in 99% of the times has confidence).

IT-Jobs are a bit different people, you can look like a total nerd and still own the place.

 

[GeminiX]

...and dont tell me its only about confidence, because its not.

Yes it is, but sadly I doubt you'll ever be able to understand that.

So based on your asumption, is it all about confidence at the dating scene aswell?

No, not *all* about confidence, but a huge amount.

As a former ugly fat bald guy, I never had problems dating, but it's a also a little bit of catch 22. As I never had problems getting dates, it gave me confidence.

Sadly, confidence is not something which can be taught easily. It only comes through experience, and finding things which work.

edit: it's worth pointing out that my views on dating are relative. I was never someone who would "pull" a new date each night, and had no desire to be one of those scrubbers anyway.

It depends what you're expectations are; also the way you behave will alter the types of partners you'll attract.

 

[GeminiX]

bloody hell you must be ulta successfull!

As a bald fat ugly man you had no problem getting dates. Didn't you miss something rather pertinent?

All of the above (your words not mine) and add who wanted to be a women!

Surely to god that must have further narrowed down your, whats the word i'm looking for, you know!

Well yes, and it may have been the key to why I was able to have decent success. I spent a lot of time in my own head, trying to act like a guy.

That may have given me the confidence to succeed as on the inside I didn't really care; I can only compare it to being a bit like playing a video game with "god mode" turned on or like I was an actor playing a part. None of it really mattered.

The point I'm trying to make is, while my own situation is quite unique and my state of mind was probably very different to that of others, I was still physically a fat bald ugly guy who was able to get dates.

Does that make sense?

 

[superfrankie]

Sadly, confidence is not something which can be taught easily. It only comes through experience, and finding things which work.

I used to have huge confidence before my hair loss, now I wonder how much my looks played in, since I heard many times that I was hot or good looking from the ladies back then.

 

[superfrankie]

The point I'm trying to make is, while my own situation is quite unique and my state of mind was probably very different to that of others, I was still physically a fat bald ugly guy who was able to get dates.

Does that make sense?

I must say, you are quite interesting as a person. And I dont mean that in a negative way.

 

[Aco_KK]

Dudemon, didn't you say you have scars on your face plus a butchered hair transplant. Is that what you think makes you ugly? You know, if you have the qualifications in Australia, and you don't get a job, you have the right to ask why. So if an Norwood 1 comes in with lesser qualifications, by law, they have to hire you. Well not have to...but yeah.

What if just a bald man applied?

 

[GeminiX]

It just goes to show: looks DO matter. Bottom line.

Unless someone actually said to you "Sorry, we're not employing you because you look funny!", then there is absolutely no way you can prove that statement.

I've met lots of people who I don't like, and lots of people who don't like me. Some people just click, some don't.

The very fact that you're so incredibly negative would be enough to put me off as an employer, and some people are very good at seeing those traits in people.

For all you know, the "boss" in your story may had already had someone else in mind. There are so many factors in social interaction, with appearance and looks just being part of it.

But whatever man, you carry on deluding yourself and setting yourself up for a lifetime of failure you clearly want to keep on believing this nonsense. It just irritates me that you guys try to convince each other that there is no hope for you, you don't seem to appreciate how harmful that can be for new people coming here.

 

[HatPrisoner91]

That is a massive exaggeration; I land more than one in three interviews I go for but based on your logic I should be an unemployed bum.

Also, considering I've worked with literally thousands of people, a huge number of which being bald, fat, ugly, short, tall etc. I can say with 100% certainty your utterly wrong in your belief that looks are particularly important in a job interview.

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say you work in some sort of programming or design field. Am I right?

 

[HatPrisoner91]

I agree, looks have *some* influence in an interview, but it's minimal.

As I've stated in many other posts (which are always ignored by Club Negative), there are some jobs where looks are important; very few though and generally low paid / commission based.

I'm still chuckling at the idea of the worlds top business staffed by beautiful, but stupid people trying to work out how to work the photocopier.

Unless you are a researcher or some sort of computer programmer/IT person, then yes, looks play a major factor.

Do you know how many "hot" women I see in jobs who are not capable? I mean they aren't even close. Do you know how many good looking guys I see in top roles? Again, not that good at what they do?

You are kidding yourself if you think looks are "minimal".

 

[HatPrisoner91]

Unless someone actually said to you "Sorry, we're not employing you because you look funny!", then there is absolutely no way you can prove that statement.

They will never say that. They can't legally say that.

 

[GeminiX]

I'm a technical architect / enterprise design consultant, so while I personally work in a broadly IT related field, the people I work with are from *all* parts of a given business.

My role involves working with most areas of my clients business so I get to see thousands of staff at all levels.

I meet people who are great at their jobs, I meet people who are not so good. Some are very attractive, some are as plain as vanilla ice-cream.

In the real world, with businesses who are serious about staying in business, people (for the vast majority) are judged on what they can do for the business.

This is an absolute fact based on my own 1st hand experience working with some of the biggest private companies and public sector organisations in Europe (and sometimes outside the EU).

 

[s.a.f]

But yeah looks will have some impact even if only on a subconcious level.
It also depends on the job itself, if we're talking about unskilled labour then yeah you might aswell go for the best looking candidate but if its a job where performance really matters and looks dont help then they'll possibly hire the best performer, although in many jobs how do they really know performance until after they've hired you?

As I said before if you're an investment banker, I.T proffesional, salesman or skilled engineer it will be your performance that counts 99%.

However if you're a boss just looking for a secretary to do your filing, answer your phone and make you coffee given the choice of an experienced efficient dragon, or a unexperienced ditzy young hottie, if you've got to look at her all day you'll probably go for the hottie.

When you fly on an airplane the flight attendant will probably have got the job based on her appearance, but the pilot wont.

 

[giggle]

for those who want scientific (and recent) material about the subject:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1705244

 

[superfrankie]

As I said before if you're an investment banker, I.T proffesional, salesman or skilled engineer it will be your performance that counts 99%.

I know a guy from the saleseman business and he said they reject people who dont have the right appearance ALLT THE TIME. So bullshit! There are a lot of physical demands you have to live up to as a salesman. Part of getting the performance required is to have pleasant looks that attracts customers. Even if you can theoretically sell something to customers they will still hire those who look the best since they believe those people have the right attributes to perform. The salesman business is the most superficial of them all for f*** sake!

 

[superfrankie]

for those who want scientific (and recent) material about the subject:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1705244

"In fact, women with no picture have a significantly higher rate of callbacks than attractive or plain-looking women. We explore a number of explanations and provide evidence that female jealousy of attractive women in the workplace is a primary reason for the punishment of attractive women."

Interesting! But I doubt it. Maybe f the employer is a female, since they tend to be jealous of each other. But if the employer is a male, NO WAY!