Social Skills And Your Looks.

[Afro_Vacancy]

Cocohot said, if I recall correctly, that psychological illnesses have not been linked to DNA.vI'm not sure if that's true, but I consider it extremely obvious that both genetics and environment contribute exentively to personality.

In college textbooks there were two clever saying on the matter:
- In a situation where everyone's environment is the same, all differences are genetic. In a situation where all genetics are the same, all differences are due to environment.
- For a rectangle's area, neither the length nor the height are more important. What matters is the product of both.

To argue that only environment matters, or that only genetics matters, in general, is to display complete scientific ignorance and a fundamental inability to process basic information.

 

[cocohot]

Cocohot said, if I recall correctly, that psychological illnesses have not been linked to DNA.vI'm not sure if that's true, but I consider it extremely obvious that both genetics and environment contribute exentively to environment.

In college textbooks there were two clever saying on the matter:
- In a situation where everyone's environment is the same, all differences are genetic. In a situation where all genetics are the same, all differences are due to environment.
- For a rectangle's area, neither the length nor the height are more important. What matters is the product of both.

To argue that only environment matters, or that only genetics matters, in general, is to display complete scientific ignorance and a fundamental inability to process basic information.

That was to do with psychological illness though wasn't it?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

That was to do with psychological illness though wasn't it?

Yes I think your specific point pertained to psychological illnesses ... such as schizophrenia and that class of illnesses.

 

[cocohot]

Yes I think your specific point pertained to psychological illnesses ... such as schizophrenia and that class of illnesses.

I think the entire article was about mental illness, as opposed to specific personality traits like, for example, a good sense of humour.

 

[Swoop]

But in all practicality it's the same thing trying to cultivate strengths instead of hide weaknesses, for example you can't become more extroverted without trying to tackle the reasons you are introverted.

Unless you're really breaking down the reasons you are what you are and what your strengths and weaknesses are, as "introverted" and "extroverted" are pretty broad spectrums.

For example if you are a good conversationalist on a one-to-one basis you may try to build on that into being able to talk to 2 people, and realising one-on-one conversations don't work the same, you need to adapt to slightly more of a group chat and can't just engage and talk by the previous means. Then build up into being comfortable with a group of people etc. when you realise that in a group, conversation is light hearted and rarely touches on anything too meaningful.

You seem to confuse yourself with shyness, anxiety etc. and the spectrum of introversion-extraversion. Fred is kinda right in the assumption that a introvert will never become a extrovert, vica versa. Although it's not as black as white and can be seen more as a gradient. Ever heard of the Myers-Briggs model?

A extravert that sits in his room all day because he is shy, has anxiety whatsoever is still a extrovert. Similarly a introvert that is very good at being a conversationalist in any situation will still be a introvert.

 

[Rudiger]

How can shyness and anxiety possibly not be intertwined with being outgoing and talkative? The broad definition is a person's attitude, not their psychological outlook on life which is a very debatable issue to study.

Myers-Briggs has no spectrum, which is exactly why it's practically pseudoscience and a binary thought process.

But you say there is indeed a spectrum well, there we go, as you say there is no black and white. There is a gradient, and my example was following someone who can be more extroverted while working on defeating their natural instincts as an introvert, you can sway from one side to the other.

You gave 2 very extreme examples so let's just take a normal one, which is neither extremely to either side of the scale, so this relates to 90% or more of us who feel different socially in different situations and react as such- would a somewhat introverted person be more extroverted if they were to a) sit in the house all day and never interact with society or b) go out with friends and join a sports team blah blah etc.

An introvert who is very good at being a conversationalist is a direct contradiction.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

How can shyness and anxiety possibly not be intertwined with being outgoing and talkative? The broad definition is a person's attitude, not their psychological outlook on life which is a very debatable issue to study.

Myers-Briggs has no spectrum, which is exactly why it's practically pseudoscience and a binary thought process.

But you say there is indeed a spectrum well, there we go, as you say there is no black and white. There is a gradient, and my example was following someone who can be more extroverted while working on defeating their natural instincts as an introvert, you can sway from one side to the other.

You gave 2 very extreme examples so let's just take a normal one, which is neither extremely to either side of the scale, so this relates to 90% or more of us who feel different socially in different situations and react as such- would a somewhat introverted person be more extroverted if they were to a) sit in the house all day and never interact with society or b) go out with friends and join a sports team blah blah etc.

An introvert who is very good at being a conversationalist is a direct contradiction.

Some acquaintances of mine had a child diagnosed with very severe autism when he was a kid.

They were told he would never be a normal kid.

So they undertook an aggressive treatment regimen, extremely aggressive.

A decade later, he's the most popular kid in his class.

Moral: We shouldn't be slaves to these labels, they are based on incomplete science of poorly understood phenomena at best.

 

[Rudiger]

Labelling or not, if an action has a direct definition, for example conversing with people being defined as extroversion, and that's the origin of the term, then that's what it is.

The "science" or "psychology" of it is poorly monitored so with that I disagree we can put labels or definitions together for that, but the social act of being introverted or extroverted is very simple.

EDIT: Just checking, you were agreeing there right? I was saying these "attitudes" or actions are of course malleable, and I'm pretty sure you agree.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Labelling or not, if an action has a direct definition, for example conversing with people being defined as extroversion, and that's the origin of the term, then that's what it is.

The "science" or "psychology" of it is poorly monitored so with that I disagree we can put labels or definitions together for that, but the social act of being introverted or extroverted is very simple.

Going back to the autism disorder, if it were some sort of catastrophic genetic failure then there would have been little to nothing my friends could do. They took a gamble on their kid that it was treatable and they won. Meanwhile there may be other conditions that are not treatable, I don't think it's know what's what.

I disagree that "conversing with people" is simple. There's a huge number of processes necessary to good "conversational ability": empathy for others, language skills, ability to read social cues, knowledge, intonation, emotional interest in others, emotional comfort around others, good attention span, good short-term memory, et cetera. There are a lot of different ways for a conversation to fail and it's not necessarily obvious why it fails for any specific person or when.

Introverted and extroverted can also depend on context. An extroverted person will become introverted if they are surrounded by people they are uncomfortable with.

 

[Rudiger]

I didn't mean the art of conversation is simple, just the definition of extroversion is. The broad definition and example is based on social interaction as opposed to psychological outlook (which is a mess) and I think a few people in this thread are getting confused with the idea of what relevance psychological outlook plays (none).

 

[Swoop]

How can shyness and anxiety possibly not be intertwined with being outgoing and talkative? The broad definition is a person's attitude, not their psychological outlook on life which is a very debatable issue to study.

Myers-Briggs has no spectrum, which is exactly why it's practically pseudoscience and a binary thought process.

But you say there is indeed a spectrum well, there we go, as you say there is no black and white. There is a gradient, and my example was following someone who can be more extroverted while working on defeating their natural instincts as an introvert, you can sway from one side to the other.

You gave 2 very extreme examples so let's just take a normal one, which is neither extremely to either side of the scale, so this relates to 90% or more of us who feel different socially in different situations and react as such- would a somewhat introverted person be more extroverted if they were to a) sit in the house all day and never interact with society or b) go out with friends and join a sports team blah blah etc.

An introvert who is very good at being a conversationalist is a direct contradiction.

Shyness and anxiety is intertwined with being outgoing and talkative. Someone who is shy or has anxiety generally won't be outgoing and talkative.. 1+1 = 2. Logic can't get much simpler than that can it? This hasn't do to with introversion/extraversion though.

A introvert who is very good at being a conversationalist isn't a direct contradiction, however. On what grounds do you believe this to be true? Being an introvert doesn't mean you necessarily lack social skills, have anxiety or are shy etc.

Read; http://www.quietrev.com/why-introverts-and-extroverts-are-different-the-science/

 

[F2005]

Oftentimes our social skills can have a direct correlation to how satisfied we are with how we look. If we look good, we feel good, and if we feel good, we are more prone to being more outgoing, sociable, and friendly. I remember when I was talking to this one girl on the phone and I was really winning her over with my wit, comedy, and charm. But years later, when my hair loss really kicked in, I was sitting in literally the same location (the parking lot of my gym, in my car, after a workout), talking to a different girl, and I was just flustered, discombobulated, and stammering. The difference between each instance was that the first time, I was very satisfied with my looks, whereas the second time, hair loss was really dragging me down.

 

[Roberto_72]

Oftentimes our social skills can have a direct correlation to how satisfied we are with how we look. If we look good, we feel good, and if we feel good, we are more prone to being more outgoing, sociable, and friendly. I remember when I was talking to this one girl on the phone and I was really winning her over with my wit, comedy, and charm. But years later, when my hair loss really kicked in, I was sitting in literally the same location (the parking lot of my gym, in my car, after a workout), talking to a different girl, and I was just flustered, discombobulated, and stammering. The difference between each instance was that the first time, I was very satisfied with my looks, whereas the second time, hair loss was really dragging me down.

This not the first time I hear or read about this phenomenon. When I was in university and room mates were about to call a girl, they would spray perfume on themselves to feel more "confident" during the conversation.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

This not the first time I hear or read about this phenomenon. When I was in university and room mates were about to call a girl, they would spray perfume on themselves to feel more "confident" during the conversation.

I go lift weights before good dates in order to feel happier, more awake, and more relaxed.

 

[Sonicblu650]

But lots of times social skills are directly related to how good you feel about yourself. Before my problems with my hair loss, I was more outgoing, energetic, lively, and fun to be around. But when a person's looks are being destroyed, they tend to withdraw from society as they become more angry, depressed, and bitter. Furthermore, when a person feels good, they are prone to being more thoughtful, compassionate, funny, and outgoing. But when they feel bad, they tend to be more angry, withdrawn, and sad. One thing that I do agree with Spencer Kobren on is that how we look has a direct correlation to how we feel. And how we feel has a direct correlation with our actions.

this is true for me for sure. If im feeling confident in my appearance im usually happier and in turn much more outgoing, approachable and friendly. This is partly why losing my hair scares the sh*t out of me. I had low self esteem growing up, developed an anxiety disorder at 17 and ended up a heroin addict to deal with emotions and overall un happiness. And the sad thing is i never should have felt that way to begin with. Im a good looking guy at least people have always told me that. I just Couldn't believe it or didn't have the self esteem to utilize it until really a few years ago. And i still struggle with this at times to this day. Thats why when hair loss came knocking i knew i had to defeat it and i look bad w/out my hair. I buzzed it once. I basically hid and wore hats all summer. I was so miserable and insecure again. Dont know what my point is exactly . Just the way you feel about yourself impacts the way you feel about others, and well everything in your life

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Labelling or not, if an action has a direct definition, for example conversing with people being defined as extroversion, and that's the origin of the term, then that's what it is.

The "science" or "psychology" of it is poorly monitored so with that I disagree we can put labels or definitions together for that, but the social act of being introverted or extroverted is very simple.

EDIT: Just checking, you were agreeing there right? I was saying these "attitudes" or actions are of course malleable, and I'm pretty sure you agree.

They are largely malleable, I'm not sure by how much and how the range decreases with age.

The expression "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is correct.

 

[F2005]

this is true for me for sure. If im feeling confident in my appearance im usually happier and in turn much more outgoing, approachable and friendly. This is partly why losing my hair scares the sh*t out of me. I had low self esteem growing up, developed an anxiety disorder at 17 and ended up a heroin addict to deal with emotions and overall un happiness. And the sad thing is i never should have felt that way to begin with. Im a good looking guy at least people have always told me that. I just Couldn't believe it or didn't have the self esteem to utilize it until really a few years ago. And i still struggle with this at times to this day. Thats why when hair loss came knocking i knew i had to defeat it and i look bad w/out my hair. I buzzed it once. I basically hid and wore hats all summer. I was so miserable and insecure again. Dont know what my point is exactly . Just the way you feel about yourself impacts the way you feel about others, and well everything in your life

I feel for you Sonic. I've suffered from terrible anxiety myself. It can be pure torture.

 

[pjhair]

Indeed, I'm supposed to be bipolar like my father, the side-effects (they caused me to enter a manic state) I had from SSRI's confirmed it.

That doesn't prevent me from living a normal life without medication.

I'm always skeptical about these medical labels anyway. All of a sudden, every other boy in school suffers from ADHD. Right.

Here in the US, many students take it in college so that they can focus and study. Doctors are happy to prescribe and parents are happy that their kids can focus now. A bunch of morons if you ask me. How can parents be ok with their kids taking powerful medications that mess with the chemicals in their brain?

 

[Roberto_72]

I do nothing before dates and then I get laid.

This sounds like PUA nonsense to be honest. Magical thinking.

What are your stats? Has it helped you in any way?

Fred, not everyone is as fortunate as you are at getting laid with ease.

Everyone knows PUA is bullshit. Yet, if there is something that David does that relaxes (or excites) him and upgrades his capacity to pass a nice, hem, productive evening from 49% to say 51%, I think it is just fair that he does it.

 

[Roberto_72]

Here in the US, many students take it in college so that they can focus and study. Doctors are happy to prescribe and parents are happy that their kids can focus now. A bunch of morons if you ask me. How can parents be ok with their kids taking powerful medications that mess with the chemicals in their brain?

Did you know that many pets in the US are medicated for over - excitement and stuff?
I hope this idiocy does not reach Europe.