Welcome to the world. It's a rare human who uses rationality alone as his guide. Vast majority of people hold various positions and views that are logically indefensible. They get offended when you point it out and their denial kicks in. Stupidity is a curse on humanity. Other big problems in the world such as terrorism, global warming, poverty etc have their roots in the inability of humans to be consistently logical and overvaluing their emotions. If somehow the collective intelligence of human race can be raised substantially, you will see these big problems solved overnight.
This Whole Thing Reminds Me Of Racism And Discrimination
- Thread starter samantha3333
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Welcome to the world. It's a rare human who uses rationality alone as his guide. Vast majority of people hold various positions and views that are logically indefensible. They get offended when you point it out and their denial kicks in. Stupidity is a curse on humanity. Other big problems in the world such as terrorism, global warming, poverty etc have their roots in the inability of humans to be consistently logical and overvaluing their emotions. If somehow the collective intelligence of human race can be raised substantially, you will see these big problems solved overnight.
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Exactly. No one points the finger at themselves.
Global warming - "It's the corporations, the guy driving a car with less MPG than me, my neighbor leaves his lights on!".
Poverty - "It's the guys richer than me, why can't they share?, selfish fucks". - meanwhile they are wealthier than 95% of people on the planet today.
I think the problem goes deeper than people not being able to point fingers at themselves(although it's a big, big issue). It's also the lack of critical thinking skills in people. I will give you an example. There was a debate about legalizing prostitution. Someone argued:
How can you support legalizing prostitution? How will you feel if women in your family such as your sister or mother become a prostitute?
Most people found the above reasoning convincing. They acted like it was some knockdown argument. I was taken aback by the stupidity of people. The logical flaw in the argument is pretty obvious. Should we start making professions illegal just because we don't like women in our family to do it? I don't want my sister to be a stripper. Should we make it illegal as well? I don't want my sister to be jobless and lazy. Should we make being jobless and lazy illegal as well? I don't want my any of my family and friends to not finish college. Should I support making not finishing college illegal as well?
How can people not see the obvious logical flaw in the argument? Does it really need to be pointed out? If they don't have enough critical thinking skills to detect the logical inconsistency in such a simple argument, how can we even begin to hope that they will be able to make a positive contribution when it comes to issues that are far more complex.
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I can't believe people don't eat meat because they care about the animals. I watch the news and see people in countries far away suffer, then 5min later I have forgotten about it.
I don't give a f*** about the cow I'm eating, the reason the cow was alive in the first place was to become food. Do cows even exist in the wild?
You know humans have few problems when they start caring about their food too much to eat it. If anything it's hypocritical to only eat the ugly animals.
I would eat a dog, but never my own dog. I care about people I know suffering, I'm not going to pretend I lose sleep over people I have no clue about suffering in a country far away. For all I know they're all dicks. I can tell that it doesnt make me sound nice, but atleast I can admit it. f*** the pseudo niceism.
The dream society where everyone is happy including the animals is impossible to achieve. There's over 7 billion people on earth, if we all had the same amount of money it would f*****g suck, especially if we all had to eat only free range animals which would be expensive (and impossible). It just isn't enough resources. Just imagine the pollution if it was possible and everyone had the well being we have in 1st world countries, everyone in the world going on vacations with airplanes, owning cars, anf the the entire world is industrialized. RIP humankind.
Yeah, most people look at the news and think "Those people have it bad, I wish I could help" but, no one is willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing to help them. The reason we say we feel bad is to make ourselves feel better about it, as if we are somehow helping them by feeling bad. But are we willing to sacrifice our opportunities, money or home? Nope, we sacrifice a fraction of our money at best, that we can't even notice on our own well being.
Humans care about their own "tribe" the rest is virtue signaling.
I don't give a f*** about the cow I'm eating, the reason the cow was alive in the first place was to become food. Do cows even exist in the wild?
You know humans have few problems when they start caring about their food too much to eat it. If anything it's hypocritical to only eat the ugly animals.
I would eat a dog, but never my own dog. I care about people I know suffering, I'm not going to pretend I lose sleep over people I have no clue about suffering in a country far away. For all I know they're all dicks. I can tell that it doesnt make me sound nice, but atleast I can admit it. f*** the pseudo niceism.
The dream society where everyone is happy including the animals is impossible to achieve. There's over 7 billion people on earth, if we all had the same amount of money it would f*****g suck, especially if we all had to eat only free range animals which would be expensive (and impossible). It just isn't enough resources. Just imagine the pollution if it was possible and everyone had the well being we have in 1st world countries, everyone in the world going on vacations with airplanes, owning cars, anf the the entire world is industrialized. RIP humankind.
Yeah, most people look at the news and think "Those people have it bad, I wish I could help" but, no one is willing to sacrifice their own wellbeing to help them. The reason we say we feel bad is to make ourselves feel better about it, as if we are somehow helping them by feeling bad. But are we willing to sacrifice our opportunities, money or home? Nope, we sacrifice a fraction of our money at best, that we can't even notice on our own well being.
Humans care about their own "tribe" the rest is virtue signaling.
There was a professor of philosophy once on Sam Harris's podcast. He donated all his salary except the bare minimum required for him to survive. If I remember correctly, he only kept $20 K or $30 k and donated the rest. His argument was that every dollar that we spend on buying cars, big houses, vacations, nice clothes, furniture etc can be used to save lives of children in Africa. Not donating all our money except the bare minimum we need to survive despite knowing this is analogous to not saving children trapped in a burning house despite being capable to do so. Interesting line of thought. If this line of reasoning is correct then unless someone is like that professor, he/she should really think twice before calling others heartless for opposing immigrant or refugees policies. Yes, you may think that you have more compassion than the person opposing the policies, but compared to the mentioned professor, you are heartless. You are choosing to enjoying your luxuries when you can save the lives of children in Africa with that money.
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So would I. They're such cool animals.
Actually, i'm a huge animal advocate in real life, believe it or not.
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Why would anybody not believe you?
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May reason, which I won't list here
Just kidding. I don't know. It's an Internet forum.
Who knows what anybody here is like in real life?
We just don't know.
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8 billion - muslims have been breeding a lot these past 10 years.
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no one in states eat bear meat.
people eat lamb.
so they kill bear cubs for the pure joy.
I dont know to me that is a little weird..would not want to be alone with a guy who enjoys killing hibernating animals and baby animals for 'sport'.
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[QUOTE="SmoothSailing, post: 1465992, member: 127310"
You're allowed to, of course. I'm allowed to criticize you and vote the opposite direction, which I will do, because I refuse to control people based on my feelings when I do things that are logically the same. I don't like being hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
if you are human you are hypocrite.
everyone on this forum has been a hypocrite at times.
its unavoidable.
You're allowed to, of course. I'm allowed to criticize you and vote the opposite direction, which I will do, because I refuse to control people based on my feelings when I do things that are logically the same. I don't like being hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
if you are human you are hypocrite.
everyone on this forum has been a hypocrite at times.
its unavoidable.
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thats all great but pretty sure killing bear cubs and wolf pups is pretty shitty as no one eats them. just kills them
No offense but you guys get so stuck taking 'philosophies' of life or politics and stick to them stead fast because you are afraid of seeming like a hypocrite...Did you never watch Star Trek? if you are human it is impossible to embrace pure logic 100% of time. It is not human to be logical 100% of time.
There is nuance in all things.
You take me not wanting to see hibernating animals killed in my country, my state and somehow go back to your Libertarian philosophy of life for all things.
Example Trump has rolled back many many regulations...as a result his approval ratings are at 34%...This is unprecedented in the history for the first year of a President. These are usually numbers after 8 years when a crisis happens and is mismanaged.
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Source?
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I don't like to see that either, I just don't want the state to enforce it. There are many things I don't like, but I don't want to see the state intervene.
Is there anyone who needs to eat lamb to survive? Or are they just eating it for the "joy" of it?
True, no doubt I am. I'm just saying I try very hard to avoid it when I can. Just because we are all hypocritical from time to time is not an excuse to be hypocritical.
Me neither, seeing pictures of guys holding up, like a trophy, some tiger that they killed seems very wrong to me.
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I think the libertarian philosophy when attempted to be put into practice is extremly flawed.
And i do encourage you to be open minded that it may NOT be the right path for you to so firmly believe in
you seem to have a devotion to this idea almost with a religious kind of devoted idealism
and i think its extremely flawed
in my Country they have a lot of power in the republican party--and when you really see them try to apply it to 'governing' its like an 'oxymoron'.
You use logic like i said Mr Spock taught you nothing with this.
Logical without empathy is the lack of humanity in people.
For some it is much easier than others because some people rally do lack empathy.
YOU i can tell do NOT lack empathy BUT you are surpassing it--your humanist instincts--to embrace a philosophical version of Governing (lack of governing).
So you are eventually going to feel (i think) suppressed by this.
I think as you live longer ( i mean you are 23?) you will find this way of seeing the world more difficult. I mean maybe not bu ti think so.
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lol, you're right. It's like my religion. And, in practice, it would cause a large array of issues. Some likely being disastrous.
Maybe I'm a selfish prick, but I'd rather a disastrous world where I can make my own disastrous decisions, than a world where someone makes the decisions for me. But, as you have said, I'd be surprised if I don't have a changed outlook someday. Especially if I ever have kids.
Trust me, I don't have a holier-than-thou attitude, I realize I'm in the .1% with my views, and realize there are good reasons for this. But it's still how I feel currently.
I believe empathy is logical. Or at least can be built into logical reasoning. This isn't what I am advocating (logic without empathy). When empathy is very subjective, it should not be enforced by the state as it only leads to everyone having to cater to somebody elses empathy that they don't feel themselves. Some vegans empathize with bees so much they won't eat honey. That's perfectly ok, but I would not like them enforcing that on me. We all have little differences here and there so we should be careful when outlawing behaviors.
But overall yes, you are right. Trying to fit the whole world into one simple philosophy is doomed to failure. Mostly I try and advocate a change in direction, a push towards libertarianism, not a complete application of it.
Finally a quote, outlining how I can be against people killing cubs and not for it being illegal (I know you get this, but a good quote all the same).
“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”
― Frédéric Bastiat, The Law
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Libertarianism and small Govt/conservatisim in an idealogical sense does not work.
When Gay Cancer first came out..the CDC could not get the proper funding from Govt to do the research, the education, the developing of a test to isolate the virus, equipping hospitals to care for these people, even being able to have disposable items (any things in hospitals and Drs you and i would take for granted today compared to pre-aids days) --they were like suffering majorly and I do believe the funding was not provided due to a small or no Govt interference ideology that Regan had.
He was BIG Govt about military and world events--but not domestic so much as far as i can remember.
I m not going to get into all of it--you can research it yourself if you find the subject interesting..
But that is an example when something 'hits' if you dont have a functioning Govt going--if you just have skeleton govt to bare-bone it with NO regulations--you can seriously 'f***' up when its avoidable.
Nuance.
Is the answer my friend.
This exists in medical literature.
I don't remember exactly the name of that from books what i read(Forensic Medicine),
but from google,i think its called Vorarephilia,not sure.
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3 people died and a dog.
