Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[MinervaCGI]

Interesting new article.

https://www.hairlosscure2020.com/the-sonic-hedgehog-pathway-an-unrealized-dream/

On November 21st 2018, an important new study related to the Sonic Hedgehog (Shh) pathway and hair growth in mice was published in Nature Communications:

“Hedgehog stimulates hair follicle neogenesis by creating inductive dermis during murine skin wound healing.”

The lead author of this study is the famous Dr. Mayumi Ito, who I have covered numerous times on this blog. The research was led by Dr. Ito and her team from the NYU School of Medicine. Other well known co-authors include Dr. George Cotsarelis, Dr. Maksim Plikus and Dr. Sarah Millar.

For some reason, a number of newspapers around the world only covered these results a week after publication. Even Dr. Ito’s own university only discussed the findings on November 28th. More here.

The study authors claim to have shown that activation of the Sonic hedgehog (Shh) pathway regenerates dermal papilla cells, which in turn ensures hair follicle neogenesis. This was done on wounded and damaged skin that was previously unable to grow hair.

Moreover, the authors have found a way to prevent cancerous tumor growth upon Shh pathway activation:

“To bypass the risk of tumors reported in other experiments that turned on the sonic hedgehog pathway, the NYU Langone team turned on only fibroblasts located just beneath the skin’s surface where hair follicle roots (dermal papillae) first appear.”

The study also has some very interesting discussion about the interplay with Shh signaling and Wnt signaling (and activation).

This was something I wanted to discuss. The entire premise of wounding and hair neogenesis is that there is a window which we need to take advantage of. I'm happy to read this because this tumor problem was big one.

 

[MinervaCGI]

Hey,
Can you please give more details about you success?
Did you use minoxidil?
What length were you rolling?
How often did you roll?
How successful was it?
Do the results remain if you stop rolling?

Thanks

I did light dermarolling with 1.5 or 2 mm 192 needle roller on Monday and Wednesday and applied minoxidil immediately after.
On friday I did real wounding using 1.5mm 192 needle, so much so, it left two small tire tracks on a small region my hairline. I did not apply minoxidil immediately after.

I will be doing the same thing since the first time I only did very light dermarolling and applied minoxidil immediately after. Do not use a .25 or .5mm as it will hurt too. I did light dermarolling 10 times in perpendicular direction to each other until a little bit of redness. Somebody and a few others do this and got decent result. So, on my second try I incorporated both wounding and very light dermarolling every other day to get the best of both worlds. I made faster progress by incorporating both but it was a double edges sword because the pain made me quit all together. Lost all my gains within 2-3 months. The process was so effective I ended up creating follicles where I didn't even have any but they are sporadic and spread out and I just did it to convince my brain that it's worth it. Who knows is genetically asymmetrical hairline would be symmetrical today if I kept at it. The other issue was I was turning into a f*****g Gorilla. I believe that was also responsible in me quitting. I had hair on my f*****g lower eyelid's outer sides. This time I will try to find a solution to that.

Regarding minoxidil, I also stopped that. The very first time I used it was when I was 18 years old and for 3 years and it did nothing at all. It just created that peach fuzz. So, at 23 and much worse condition I went back to minoxidil along with light dermarolling and dermarolling helped turn those hair thicker. I gave up after 3-4 months and this includes minoxidil.

I tried two more times to give up in a similar pattern both minoxidil and dermarolling.

I have never given up Propecia though.

 

[kiwi666]

Happens to me a fair bit....Its just the needles getting stuck in your skin as you move from side to side...the side walls of the needles are effectively sticking to the skin and the pressure from the spring isn't high enough to pull them back up....I wouldn't worry about it.

I haven’t experienced that with derminator. At some point could be a reason to upgrade (for some).

 

[kiwi666]

I did light dermarolling with 1.5 or 2 mm 192 needle roller on Monday and Wednesday and applied minoxidil immediately after.
On friday I did real wounding using 1.5mm 192 needle, so much so, it left two small tire tracks on a small region my hairline. I did not apply minoxidil immediately after.

I will be doing the same thing since the first time I only did very light dermarolling and applied minoxidil immediately after. Do not use a .25 or .5mm as it will hurt too. I did light dermarolling 10 times in perpendicular direction to each other until a little bit of redness. Somebody and a few others do this and got decent result. So, on my second try I incorporated both wounding and very light dermarolling every other day to get the best of both worlds. I made faster progress by incorporating both but it was a double edges sword because the pain made me quit all together. Lost all my gains within 2-3 months. The process was so effective I ended up creating follicles where I didn't even have any but they are sporadic and spread out and I just did it to convince my brain that it's worth it. Who knows is genetically asymmetrical hairline would be symmetrical today if I kept at it. The other issue was I was turning into a f*****g Gorilla. I believe that was also responsible in me quitting. I had hair on my f*****g lower eyelid's outer sides. This time I will try to find a solution to that.

Regarding minoxidil, I also stopped that. The very first time I used it was when I was 18 years old and for 3 years and it did nothing at all. It just created that peach fuzz. So, at 23 and much worse condition I went back to minoxidil along with light dermarolling and dermarolling helped turn those hair thicker. I gave up after 3-4 months and this includes minoxidil.

I tried two more times to give up in a similar pattern both minoxidil and dermarolling.

I have never given up Propecia though.

Get a derminator. Embrace that pain

 

[Headdy]

I did light dermarolling with 1.5 or 2 mm 192 needle roller on Monday and Wednesday and applied minoxidil immediately after.
On friday I did real wounding using 1.5mm 192 needle, so much so, it left two small tire tracks on a small region my hairline. I did not apply minoxidil immediately after.

I will be doing the same thing since the first time I only did very light dermarolling and applied minoxidil immediately after. Do not use a .25 or .5mm as it will hurt too. I did light dermarolling 10 times in perpendicular direction to each other until a little bit of redness. Somebody and a few others do this and got decent result. So, on my second try I incorporated both wounding and very light dermarolling every other day to get the best of both worlds. I made faster progress by incorporating both but it was a double edges sword because the pain made me quit all together. Lost all my gains within 2-3 months. The process was so effective I ended up creating follicles where I didn't even have any but they are sporadic and spread out and I just did it to convince my brain that it's worth it. Who knows is genetically asymmetrical hairline would be symmetrical today if I kept at it. The other issue was I was turning into a f*****g Gorilla. I believe that was also responsible in me quitting. I had hair on my f*****g lower eyelid's outer sides. This time I will try to find a solution to that.

Regarding minoxidil, I also stopped that. The very first time I used it was when I was 18 years old and for 3 years and it did nothing at all. It just created that peach fuzz. So, at 23 and much worse condition I went back to minoxidil along with light dermarolling and dermarolling helped turn those hair thicker. I gave up after 3-4 months and this includes minoxidil.

I tried two more times to give up in a similar pattern both minoxidil and dermarolling.

I have never given up Propecia though.

Thanks for the info.
So I take it once you stop needling all results are lost

 

[aa18]

Interesting new article.

“To bypass the risk of tumors reported in other experiments that turned on the sonic hedgehog pathway, the NYU Langone team turned on only fibroblasts located just beneath the skin’s surface where hair follicle roots (dermal papillae) first appear.”

So how deep is that? Is this suggesting that there is a safe depth of wounding and if you go beyond said depth, you risk developing tumors?

 

[MinervaCGI]

Get a derminator. Embrace that pain

It's coming in 25 days but it's not derminator. I bought a similar model to the guy who's result this thread is based on from banggood.

 

[Bill_Russo]

Are you using minoxidil as well? I feel like itching immediately after rolling is fairly normal if that's what's happening to you.

I really want to know if anyone has seen shedding decrease since starting, in an obvious way, regardless of regrowth. I'm interested to see if this method, whether it results in regrowth or not, will have any effect on making follicles more resistant to miniaturization.

Yeah, people have reported a decrease in shedding after they started needling.

So how deep is that? Is this suggesting that there is a safe depth of wounding and if you go beyond said depth, you risk developing tumors?

About that... I thought needling was recommended to prevent tumors, since it forces the skin cells to renew themselves.

 

[MinervaCGI]

Yeah, people have reported a decrease in shedding after they started needling.

About that... I thought needling was recommended to prevent tumors, since it forces the skin cells to renew themselves.

Nothing to do with microneedling.

In the initial decade after the first identification of the hedgehog gene around 1980, there was almost no research devoted to the impact of the SHH pathway upon human hair. However, this started to change in the mid-1990s (e.g., this from 1998) and culminated in the seminal work on this subject that was published in the US in 1999: “Induction of the hair growth phase in postnatal mice by localized transient expression of Sonic hedgehog“.

After the groundbreaking 1999 study on mice, some researchers were mildly optimistic that SHH activation could also have positive implications on human hair growth in balding men and women. A new company that was formed in 2000 called Curis partnered with Procter & Gamble in 2005 to try and develop a topical Hedgehog agonist product for scalp hair growth.

However, this partnership ended in 2007 due to potential safety issues since SHH can potentially also cause basal cell carcinoma cancer. P&G was not willing to continue with the drug development work, since even a very minimal risk of developing cancer is not worth it for treating a cosmetic problem such as hair loss (at least in the eyes of government). Interesting comment from the at-the-time CEO of Curis:


“We are obviously disappointed that the collaboration with Procter & Gamble will come to an end. We believe that our topically administered Hedgehog agonists have demonstrated encouraging efficacy in preclinical hair growth models and we were hopeful that one of our Hedgehog agonist drug candidates under the program would have progressed.”

 

[MinervaCGI]

New collagen formation process which takes place over a period of 10 to 14 days..

Are we better off doing this long term every two weeks? It's much easier to stick to it.

 

[cratusg]

So will microneedling increase a risk of forming tumors or not? Can someone clarify

 

[Bill_Russo]

New collagen formation process which takes place over a period of 10 to 14 days..

Are we better off doing this long term every two weeks? It's much easier to stick to it.

I'm gonna follow a Chinese study doing 2 mm every 2 weeks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29028377

 

[cratusg]

Is dermarolling dangerous and increases risk of cancer? Maybe we should all stop.

https://www.oumere.com/blog/2018/8/...-breakdown-premature-aging-andpossibly-cancer

 

[Francky85]

Is dermarolling dangerous and increases risk of cancer? Maybe we should all stop.

https://www.oumere.com/blog/2018/8/...-breakdown-premature-aging-andpossibly-cancer

Sorry mate....but that just some guy rambling his wild thoughts:

"Perhaps even those incisions caused by dermarolling are enough to induce a carcinoma as well."

If that was the case, then we would of heard of anecdotal evidence of people getting BCC, just like we do with people who go on sunbeds.

 

[cratusg]

Sorry mate....but that just some guy rambling his wild thoughts:

"Perhaps even those incisions caused by dermarolling are enough to induce a carcinoma as well."

If that was the case, then we would of heard of anecdotal evidence of people getting BCC, just like we do with people who go on sunbeds.

Be he has references of studies at the bottom of his blogpost

 

[alibaba92]

Really cant imagine, a bullshit takes damn long to be released.

 

[aa18]

So will microneedling increase a risk of forming tumors or not? Can someone clarify

My understanding is that if you are not disturbing the hair follicle itself, which lies somewhere between 2mm-4mm deep, it should be safe. I might be wrong, though.

 

[cratusg]

Hmm yeah. I dont wanna risk of getting cancer but I would cry if I had to stop cuz this sh*t is working for me...

 

[Bill_Russo]

Hmm yeah. I dont wanna risk of getting cancer but I would cry if I had to stop cuz this sh*t is working for me...

I dunno, man... If the risk was that big then Follica should stop altogether, too.

 

[cratusg]

I dunno, man... If the risk was that big then Follica should stop altogether, too.

But they might have figured out how to not risk it with specific needledepth and so on. Cant someone ask a dermatologist