We killed Bin Laden! f*** your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

HughJass

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

hairrific said:
By the way aussieavodart, you left out the part how the military force rebuilt the town better than before, schools, hospitals, street lights, jobs.

Yes everything is greatly improved, which is why 4 million Iraqi refugees still haven't returned home after fleeing since 2003 and why Iraqi Christians fled in greater numbers last year than an other time since the war began. Afghan asylum seekers wash up on Australian shores every week.

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon spent about $600 million on more than 1,200 Iraq reconstruction contracts that were eventually canceled, nearly half of them for mismanagement or shoddy construction, government investigators say.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2 ... acts_N.htm



Iraq has between 25 and 50 percent unemployment, a dysfunctional parliament, rampant disease, an epidemic of mental illness, and sprawling slums. The killing of innocent people has become part of daily life. What a havoc the United States has wreaked in Iraq.

UN-HABITAT, an agency of the United Nations, recently published a 218-page report entitled State of the World’s Cities, 2010-2011. The report is full of statistics on the status of cities around the world and their demographics. It defines slum dwellers as those living in urban centers without one of the following: durable structures to protect them from climate, sufficient living area, sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities, and freedom from eviction.

Almost intentionally hidden in these statistics is one shocking fact about urban Iraqi populations. For the past few decades, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the percentage of the urban population living in slums in Iraq hovered just below 20 percent. Today, that percentage has risen to 53 percent: 11 million of the 19 million total urban dwellers. In the past decade, most countries have made progress toward reducing slum dwellers. But Iraq has gone rapidly and dangerously in the opposite direction.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/us_ ... _20100823/


...ordinary Iraqis swelter in the heat with only 2-6 hours of power. Many Iraqis want to know why their government has been unable to provide adequate electricity despite the investment of billions of dollars in reconstruction in the seven years since the U.S.-led invasion.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylon ... kouts.html


Police stations built in southern Afghanistan unusable due to shoddy construction, report says
http://www.news957.com/news/world/artic ... eport-says


And see here to read all about the hundreds of Afghan schools which haven't been built because the money has been skimmed off by Afghan warlords that NATO supports. But I imagine you'll be skipping passed all of that.

Aussieavodart, PLEASE don't support parents that take the future from their children by supporting gangs or Taliban activities.

I'll leave supporting fundamentalist Islamic theocracies in Afghanistan up to you and all the other Afghan war boosters :)

I am on the winning side

You're on the broke and deluded side.

Hey, perhaps when we're done 'winning' in Iraq and Afghanistan we can go back to Vietnam and finish 'winning' there? I noticed we've taken a bit of break from that little adventure....
 

Ori83

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

finfighter said:
Dude I'm getting tired of arguing with the same propaganda over and over again, we understand how you feel about the American Infidels and the evil Jews aussieavodart we get it ;)

really? are you really tired? because it will be such a shame if that topic will stop bumping in my "your posts" every 5 minutes... so, please give this a second thought WOULD YOU!??!!!!
 

hairrific

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aussieavodart said:
hairrific said:
By the way aussieavodart, you left out the part how the military force rebuilt the town better than before, schools, hospitals, street lights, jobs.

Yes everything is greatly improved, which is why 4 million Iraqi refugees still haven't returned home after fleeing since 2003 and why Iraqi Christians fled in greater numbers last year than an other time since the war began. Afghan asylum seekers wash up on Australian shores every week.

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon spent about $600 million on more than 1,200 Iraq reconstruction contracts that were eventually canceled, nearly half of them for mismanagement or shoddy construction, government investigators say.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2 ... acts_N.htm



Iraq has between 25 and 50 percent unemployment, a dysfunctional parliament, rampant disease, an epidemic of mental illness, and sprawling slums. The killing of innocent people has become part of daily life. What a havoc the United States has wreaked in Iraq.

UN-HABITAT, an agency of the United Nations, recently published a 218-page report entitled State of the World’s Cities, 2010-2011. The report is full of statistics on the status of cities around the world and their demographics. It defines slum dwellers as those living in urban centers without one of the following: durable structures to protect them from climate, sufficient living area, sufficient access to water, access to sanitation facilities, and freedom from eviction.

Almost intentionally hidden in these statistics is one shocking fact about urban Iraqi populations. For the past few decades, prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the percentage of the urban population living in slums in Iraq hovered just below 20 percent. Today, that percentage has risen to 53 percent: 11 million of the 19 million total urban dwellers. In the past decade, most countries have made progress toward reducing slum dwellers. But Iraq has gone rapidly and dangerously in the opposite direction.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/us_ ... _20100823/


...ordinary Iraqis swelter in the heat with only 2-6 hours of power. Many Iraqis want to know why their government has been unable to provide adequate electricity despite the investment of billions of dollars in reconstruction in the seven years since the U.S.-led invasion.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylon ... kouts.html


Police stations built in southern Afghanistan unusable due to shoddy construction, report says
http://www.news957.com/news/world/artic ... eport-says


And see here to read all about the hundreds of Afghan schools which haven't been built because the money has been skimmed off by Afghan warlords that NATO supports. But I imagine you'll be skipping passed all of that.

Aussieavodart, PLEASE don't support parents that take the future from their children by supporting gangs or Taliban activities.

I'll leave supporting fundamentalist Islamic theocracies in Afghanistan up to you and all the other Afghan war boosters :)

[quote:24ayqaav]I am on the winning side

You're on the broke and deluded side.

Hey, perhaps when we're done 'winning' in Iraq and Afghanistan we can go back to Vietnam and finish 'winning' there? I noticed we've taken a bit of break from that little adventure....[/quote:24ayqaav]


Again, if you remove the USA from the equation you will still have the same problems over there, even worst. Aussieavordart, your saying they need a strong man or dirty dictator to lead them, that is all they understand, right?

Aussieavodart, I never have time to mull through your many links and long post entirely (anyone can post a thousand links that says just the opposite of yours, I DO NO HAVE THE TIME TO DO SO nor do I have time to sit around thinking "how do I make a bomb or who can blame for the way my life is") but it looks like you forgot to put in your cynical one sided list a balanced unbiased accessed summery. So far you are incapable of such.

To bad, because many here have wasted our time being diverted to your ever present cynical whining. It disrupts my ability to actually complain about the USA and its foreign policy in a constructive manner with others that I know would too. I have much to add in that regard actually ("no gods or governments before me" is my personal motto) but so far I dare not mention anything that might spur on your unbalanced cynical anti USA/Israel sensationalism.
 

GeminiX

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110528/ap_ ... um=twitter

Corruption, caused by military intervention or just plain old fashioned dishonesty?

As an aside, when did this thread re-appear? I thought it was locked ages ago...
 

squeegee

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Cassin said:
Ori83 said:
to all you pacifists out there, if you are against bombing and killing "innocents people" whats your awesome alternative solution? mm..? Aussie? Cassin? powersam?

Simple...as I have stated many times...

stay the hell out of the middle east. Let them rise or fall on their own.

Let their own people decided on what level of violence they will accept from various groups.

Take war money and invest in alternative energy resources and figure something out to where we never have to deal with the middle east. That place will always be at war with somebody so don't even bother.

I agree 100% with you Cassin but would you risk another terrorist attack? They have nothing better to do and nothing to loose.
 

hairrific

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Yes its like putting a police station in the middle of the bad side of town. Good idea probably considering.

Yes I wish we were not there at all but that is just a fantasy panacea everyone clings to.

Bush said it long ago and he don't like repeating things.... ("We are there as a base of operations in the middle of ((hell)) to send a message to the entire world that we will seek out and kill terrorist no matter where or what country harbors them.")

And people still whine "why are we there"? Guess they never listened.
 

Cassin

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

GeminiX said:
As an aside, when did this thread re-appear? I thought it was locked ages ago...


I opened it up to vote...once it hit 8-1 I opened it.

This is a democracy...the people hath spoken! :whistle:
 

optimus prime

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I quite like threads like this. Gives us a chance to argue as a community. :)
 

Cassin

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

optimus prime said:
I quite like threads like this. Gives us a chance to argue as a community. :)

we used to have them all the time but it got out of hand by the anti religious crowd with the same tired attacks that you have read countless times on forums. It became such a headache we had to sadly crack down.

And to be specific...its not that people respectfully argued against religion...its that anyone who talked about their belief in religion got attacked. It just got shitty. I would log in and have 5 to 10 pm's and I would know something happened in off topic.
 

powersam

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

We had some pretty massive threads not too long after the Iraq war started, back when TheGardener was active, I think even HairLossTalk.com joined in. They stayed on point and didn't degenerate as far as I recall.
 

Cassin

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

powersam said:
We had some pretty massive threads not too long after the Iraq war started, back when TheGardener was active, I think even HairLossTalk.com joined in. They stayed on point and didn't degenerate as far as I recall.
You couldn't tell because we were del the bad posts to keep it on point.
 

hairrific

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

OH NO!! Your gona wake up Assuieavordart! And just when we got some peace. He's going to "whack it on the plastic", our heads that is. :)
 

HughJass

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hairrific said:
Again, if you remove the USA from the equation you will still have the same problems over there, even worst.

First off, I thought we were discussing the national security implications for western countries who involve themselves in the middle east, not whether or not the arabs are better off with us being there. Those are two seperate issues.

And as for your idea that the ME will suck whether we're engaged or not, that's just way off. Iran used to have a democracy until Britain and the US overthrew it, Iraq used to have one of the best education and health care services in the arab world prior to the invasion, woman had more rights than they do now, the whole region has become MORE religious and fanatical since the Iraq and Afghan wars. Clearly our activities are not doing much for progress!

Aussieavordart, your saying they need a strong man or dirty dictator to lead them, that is all they understand, right?

The only people who think that are those who have a pretty derogatory view towards arabs- they only understand force, not sophisticated enough for democracy etc The demonstrations in Egypt,Syria, Bahrain etc where unarmed people literally stare down tanks in order to get elections should make anyone reconsider that sentiment.

Aussieavodart, I never have time to mull through your many links and long post entirely (anyone can post a thousand links that says just the opposite of yours, I DO NO HAVE THE TIME TO DO SO nor do I have time to sit around thinking "how do I make a bomb or who can blame for the way my life is") but it looks like you forgot to put in your cynical one sided list a balanced unbiased accessed summery. So far you are incapable of such.

If you've got some links that can challenge my claims then why not post them up? If we're not going to have a conversation where we support our arguments with appropriate references then hardly see how we're going to persuade each other.

I do not know what you mean by 'balance'. My understanding of it is that you point out everybody's crimes, not just your enemies.
 

HughJass

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Cassin said:
Iran cleric: Killing Israeli children OK

Iranian Ayatollah endorses evil: Radical religious cleric known as President Ahmadinejad's spiritual mentor says attacks on Israeli civilians permissible, suicide bombings a Muslim duty

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 76,00.html


Just for the sake of 'balance'


JERUSALEM — A top rabbinic leader of the West Bank settler movement declared last week that the Israeli military is "permitted" under Jewish religious law to kill "ostensibly innocent" civilians in the course of warfare, and that feelings of guilt over such deaths reflect "the morality of unbelievers."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... =124x71236
 

HughJass

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

squeegee said:
I agree 100% with you Cassin but would you risk another terrorist attack?

The idea that sending our armies into these countries, killing a whole bunch of locals in the process while forcing our government of choice onto them etc helps to make us safer and prevent attacks is ludicrous. You honestly believe that?

The original AQ gripe was occupation of muslim countries yet you are suggesting we continue that very practice. At some point in time are you going to consider the option of not occupying muslims countries as a forward to us not having to worry about someone detonating on the bus to work in the morning?

They have nothing better to do and nothing to loose.

Boredem and free time is not what motivates muslims to attack us. We've been over this. Many, many times.
 

kadosh

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aussieavodart said:
Cassin said:
Iran cleric: Killing Israeli children OK

Iranian Ayatollah endorses evil: Radical religious cleric known as President Ahmadinejad's spiritual mentor says attacks on Israeli civilians permissible, suicide bombings a Muslim duty

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 76,00.html


Just for the sake of 'balance'


JERUSALEM — A top rabbinic leader of the West Bank settler movement declared last week that the Israeli military is "permitted" under Jewish religious law to kill "ostensibly innocent" civilians in the course of warfare, and that feelings of guilt over such deaths reflect "the morality of unbelievers."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/di ... =124x71236

Balance? hardly.

That rabbi represent a hand-full of people. the majority of the Israelis and religious leaders in Israel will disagree with him and denounce him. on the opposite side sayings like what the Iranian Ayatollah was quoted and sayings like how the Jews are the sons of swines and apes are constantly heard in Muslim and secular Palestinians schools and in mosques during prayers but usually the media ignores it and when they do acknowledge it's just so they can find justifications for those sayings.
The Jewish law has a lot of rules about living with non Jews but the majority of the Jewish people will agree that there is a difference between the theoretical/principle Torah laws and the actual law and they can make that distinction especially when it concerns life and death. on the other hand if you draw Muhammad prepare to run for your life because almost every Muslim religious leader will give the order to kill you and millions would oblige.
 

HughJass

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Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

kadosh said:
Balance? hardly.

That rabbi represent a hand-full of people. the majority of the Israelis and religious leaders in Israel will disagree with him and denounce him. on the opposite side sayings like what the Iranian Ayatollah was quoted and sayings like how the Jews are the sons of swines and apes are constantly heard in Muslim and secular Palestinians schools and in mosques during prayers but usually the media ignores it and when they do acknowledge it's just so they can find justifications for those sayings.

I don't doubt that's true as far as what goes on in Palestinian mosques and schools (though I don't accept that it's automatically reflective of broader public opinion amongst Palestinians), but it's simply inaccurate to try and square away that rabbi's views as beliefs which exist on the fringe of an otherwise tolerant Israeli society. Take the case of the IDF chief Rabbi for example:

The Israeli army's chief rabbinate gave soldiers preparing to enter the Gaza Strip a booklet implying that all Palestinians are their mortal enemies and advising them that cruelty is sometimes a "good attribute".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 16805.html

he would never been able to attain the position he enjoys without having support for his views amongst a fair number of people and it seems pretty obvious from the conduct of the Israel military in regards to deliberate targeting of civilians, racist graffiti, those infamous t-shirts etc that those views aren't exactly abnormal, at least in the military. Add to that the surveys showing things like this:

Thirty-three percent of Israeli Jews support the idea of putting Palestinians in internment camps if a war breaks out.....The poll indicated that 53 percent of Israeli Jews believe Tel Aviv has the right to deport Arab citizens, and some 55 percent say Tel Aviv should direct more funds to Jewish communities than to Palestinian communities.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/153931.html

75 percent of participants did not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. Sixty percent of participants said they would not allow an Arab to visit their home.

About 40 percent of participants agreed that “Arabs should have their right to vote for Knesset revokedâ€￾. The number was 55 percent lower in the previous survey. Also, over half of the participants agreed that Israel should encourage its Arab citizens to immigrate from the country.

Over half of the participants said they would not want to work under the direct management of an Arab, and 55 percent said “Arabs and Jews should be separated at entertainment sitesâ€￾.

When asked what they thought of Arab culture, over 37 percent replied, “The Arab culture is inferior.â€￾
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 78,00.html



and it seems pretty obvious to me that the kind of bigotry espoused by people in the Arab world towards Jews is reciprocated by Israeli Jews towards Arabs. Nearly the entire Israeli society is endorsing a settlement project in the West Bank whose goal is rid the land of it's inhabitants so Jewish people, and only Jewish people can live there. As far as I'm aware Jewish populations aren't being chased out like that in the Muslim countries they live in. And I haven't even mentioned the laws on Israel's books which only apply to Arabs...

The Jewish law has a lot of rules about living with non Jews but the majority of the Jewish people will agree that there is a difference between the theoretical/principle Torah laws and the actual law and they can make that distinction especially when it concerns life and death. on the other hand if you draw Muhammad prepare to run for your life because almost every Muslim religious leader will give the order to kill you and millions would oblige.

I have no idea what you are basing that on. I don't recall 'almost every' Islamic leader ordering killings after those cartoons came out. :dunno:
 

hairrific

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powersam said:
http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2010.html



Oh yea they were all inocent, LOL, I had to read 30 sec. worth and JUST WHAT I THOUGHT....

Aysar Yasser Fawaz Zaraqah, 15, of Mazra al-Sharkiya, near Ramallah, killed by Israeli settler gunfire to his back after throwing stones at the settler's car on the Ramallah-Nablus Road near al-Bayada.

Would I throw stones at a car here in the bad side of town??? If I do, PLEASE SHOOT MY AS I DESERVE IT! DA ancient ancestors know DAT a stone can kill you if it hits you not just break a car window!
 
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