We killed Bin Laden! f*** your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I'm against capitalism. It encourages people to be greedy. If you're not a greedy minded person, i.e. if you're a good kind hearted person, then you're already at a disadvantage. You've all heard the terms, "dog eat dog world", "cut throat business", "ruthless in business", etc. In the world in which we (i.e. The West, and almost the entire new world order) live in, there is no escape from capitalism. The people who are right at the top only got there one way. They are ruthless, greedy, selfish, and power hungry. They don't want to lose their riches, and power. They're not happy with what they've got, they need more and more and more. They may give a tiny fraction away but they are always only thinking about themselves. In their minds they are thinking that if the whole world is developed then they will get even richer and more powerful because the market becomes even bigger, and they are already at a major advantage in that they already hold most of the 'wealth'. They buy everything of any value and take 'control' over it. Sure there are some good people who donate a lot to charities out of kindness and none selfish acts, but this just makes the greedy ones even more powerful, because they keep most of their money. Take e.g. the gaming industry, where all the best game developers are brought by 'big business' and make billions from them (e.g. http://www.activisionblizzard.com/corp/ ... mpany.html). The music industry buy up all the most popular artists, and then the only way people can listen to their music is by paying THEM, who really have no rights other than that they are greedy rich. If you buy music you're not supporting the artist, supporting the artist has nothing to do with money, IT IS MUSIC, you are supporting CAPITALIST GREED. The West (big business, government, etc.) want the world to be one big marketplace, where they can buy anything and anyone's services they want. These people at the top are not needed, there is just nothing anyone can do about it. They have all the money and power. And they aren't letting go of it anytime soon.

You don't like capitalism, which is fine. I am not hugely keen on it. However in my opinion it is the best of what is available.

What would you replace it with?

Also a lot of the problems you mentioned above are issues with people. The people lack morales. I doubt any system in the world will work when the people in it take advantage.

 

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Snipped stuff

You don't like capitalism, which is fine. I am not hugely keen on it. However in my opinion it is the best of what is available.

What would you replace it with?

Also a lot of the problems you mentioned above are issues with people. The people lack morales. I doubt any system in the world will work when the people in it take advantage.

Absolutely agree here, capitalism is just making the best of (or pandering to?) human nature.

Alternative economic systems and political philosophies can appear to be "better" in principle but *always* seem to fall foul of human nature.

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others....

 

[Viens]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

In the immediate future, I just want to see people helping each other out more, think about what they are doing more, what they are buying, who is 'ultimately' gaining, stand up for what you believe in, never respond with violence, think about the planet & nature... you've heard it all before no doubt!

I can envisage in the distant future a world where no money exchanges hands. Everyone is just helping everyone else out. A plan for the future of the human race to secure our future. Space explorers all with the same goal to explore the universe. I can not imagine how bad it will be if we are space explorers who still have MONEY in mind, OH NO NO NO... We must present ourselves extremely well to the universal community. Each person given a role that they perform best at. NO military, NO space wars, NO violence. We must find an alternative way to protect ourselves from any 'unwelcoming' communities, perhaps an unstoppable force field and communication. We will NEVER respond with violence. Set an example to everyone.

I actually thought of a near future plan to create a community where no money exchanges hands and everyone helps each other out. We could still be a part of society and have things that usually cost money that we need to evolve, such as computers (if we do not have anyone who can build them, and the resources) but I will need to become a billionaire first before I can buy the land needed. It is a very big project.

 

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like the Star Trek universe, though if Gene Roddenberry taught us anything it's that no matter how great our society becomes, some aliens will always come along to screw things up

(Or Kirk will go mad and try to kill Spock)

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone settle down a bit ok?

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

AQ declared war on the US and as military targets we can kill them all, just like we did with that POS Bin Laden, we assasinated him, and rightly so!

That wouldn't be so much of a problem if it wasn't for the US's track record of killing and detaining people who turned out to be innocent- like most of the detainees in Guantanamo.

OK Aussie,

I get your point. The West has done some things that are not right. But lets put the West to one side. It is so easy to say what is wrong, but what can you offer to improve the situation?

How do you deal with this:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


2011.05.07 (Cairo, Egypt) - Fundamentalists assault a church with firebombs and gunfire, killing five Copt defenders and four more in the ensuing riot.

2011.05.07 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Religious separatists shoot a farmer to death.

2011.05.07 (Pattani, Thailand) - Muslim militants detonate a bomb at a soccer field where police are playing a friendly game with villagers, killing four.

2011.05.06 (Fallujah, Iraq) - An accused 'enemy of Allah' is kidnapped and beheaded.

2011.05.06 (Kano, Nigeria) - Seventeen residents of a Christian village, including a pastor's wife and three children are massacred in a pre-dawn Muslim attack.

2011.05.06 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Eight Shiites visiting a cemetery are targeted and killed in a Sunni rocket attack.

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

It is quite obvious that aussieavodart is not an AQ supporter, and repeating that accusation ad nauseum in an almost hysterical fashion will not change that.

Is it???

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like the Star Trek universe, though if Gene Roddenberry taught us anything it's that no matter how great our society becomes, some aliens will always come along to screw things up

(Or Kirk will go mad and try to kill Spock)

lol

 

[wi11iam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

We hunted Osama/usama Bin Laden down, shot him in the face and dumped his corpse in the ocean, Hoora Mother fuckas!!!!!!! Don't mess with the US we will find your *** and blow your heads off eventually! Salute to the seals who killed that POS, and our friends who have served!

So annoying that this potentially awesome thread got sabotaged by stupid conspiracy theorists. So im gonna rekindle it...

TAKE THAT YOU b**ch *** TERRORIST IN THE FACE!!! DONT f*** WITH USA unk:

From your transatlantic bros.

 

[Ende]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I haven't read this discussion, but from what I've read in the newspapers, it seems like he was executed. A bullet in the face... That's too easy - and probably what he wanted. I would rather see him sent on a life long vacation to Guantanamo Bay, or a cage on ground zero.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"Philip Roettinger is an old boy enrolling in a new school. Tall, straight-backed, and well-spoken, Roettinger, 72, is an alumnus of the CIA. Among other inglorious deeds in the spying trade, he was part of the 1954 successful effort to overthrow left-leaning Guatemalen President Jacobo Arbenz... Roettinger, ex-CIA case officer and former Marine colonel, is now president of the newly formed Association for Responsible Dissent (ARDIS). Some of that dissenting was heard recently when Roettinger and 13 other former CIA officials - from undercover agents to counterintelligence specialists - announced the purpose of their group: 'We are going to try to expose covert action. We're going to try to get it legally banned because we can find no reason, no justification, for covert action on the part of the American people'.

"The group spoke of the congressional and public records being 'replete with accounts of US covert operations that killed, wounded and terrorized millions of people whose countries were not at war with the United States nor possessed the capabilities to do remarkable physical hurt to the United States, who themselves bore the United States no ill will nor cared greatly about the issues of 'communism' or 'capitalism'. With the group estimating that 'at least 6 million people have died as a consequence of US covert operations since World War II', one question rushes in from the cold. With 6 million dead, why not go beyond the banning of only covert actions to abolishing the CIA altogether?"

http://middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot. ... locaust.hair transplant

ml

Really? I think that those numbers are complete BS, and the link to your source is broken, ha what a joke!

Even if those numbers are accurate you still have no point! This has nothing to do with 9/11 and it doesn't make our response to terrorist attacks any less justified!

Your argument sucks! So what are you trying to say? That we didn't have a right to respond to the 9/11 attacks in the way that we have because, we have made some mistakes in the past, like every country in the history of the earth! Give me a break!


I guess if you got your way all of these Radical Muslim nut jobs could go on killing innocent people and forcing their false beliefs on others, but thankfully the US is here to hunt them down and kill them if necassary! To bad, for you dude!

If it were up to Aussie we would have just not responded at all to AQ attacks.

If it were up to him Bin Laden would still be alive!

Aussie is so sad that his hero is dead, martyr my ***! Last time I checked an executed serial killer is not a martyr!

Here is the link - http://middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot. ... caust.html

6 million sounds pretty high, but what if it was just 1 million? Still fine with you?

This is all beside the point anyway. As far as results go, the US response to these attacks has drawn you into two extended wars which have crippled your economy. Cut your military budget by 90% and you might survive.

As to the rightness of your military response. Do you think it right to respond to the killing of innocent people, by carpet bombing a country and killing a whole lot of other innocent people?

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

AQ declared war on the US and as military targets we can kill them all, just like we did with that POS Bin Laden, we assasinated him, and rightly so!

That wouldn't be so much of a problem if it wasn't for the US's track record of killing and detaining people who turned out to be innocent- like most of the detainees in Guantanamo.

OK Aussie,

I get your point. The West has done some things that are not right. But lets put the West to one side. It is so easy to say what is wrong, but what can you offer to improve the situation?

How do you deal with this:

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29


2011.05.07 (Cairo, Egypt) - Fundamentalists assault a church with firebombs and gunfire, killing five Copt defenders and four more in the ensuing riot.

2011.05.07 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Religious separatists shoot a farmer to death.

2011.05.07 (Pattani, Thailand) - Muslim militants detonate a bomb at a soccer field where police are playing a friendly game with villagers, killing four.

2011.05.06 (Fallujah, Iraq) - An accused 'enemy of Allah' is kidnapped and beheaded.

2011.05.06 (Kano, Nigeria) - Seventeen residents of a Christian village, including a pastor's wife and three children are massacred in a pre-dawn Muslim attack.

2011.05.06 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Eight Shiites visiting a cemetery are targeted and killed in a Sunni rocket attack.

First off I completely reject what you seem to be implying, that the war on terror is a war aimed at defeating fundamentalist muslims. It isn't and never has been. It's nothing more than a war which seeks to gain favorable strategic outcomes for the west. All the nations who have signed onto the GWOT have allied themselves with fundamentalist Islamic regimes and terrorist groups in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Bahrain etc and will continue to do so for as long as it helps them achieve their strategic goals.

To answer your question as to what we westerners should do about Islamic motivated violence in other people's countries, I would have thought the answer is fairly obvious. You support the secular, democratic movements within those countries and let the locals take care of it. Foreign intervention and occupation of those countries by our troops is for the most part completely counterproductive and empowers fundamentalist muslims, as does supporting and arming the dictators and monarchs which rule those countries and brutalize their citizens.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Really? I think that those numbers are complete BS, and the link to your source is broken, ha what a joke!

Of course you think those numbers are a joke, you've been raised to believe your government can do no wrong and you probably won't accept anything to the contrary no matter what evidence is put before you.

The link isn't broken, you just have to copy and paste the 'ml' which got cut off there.
http://middleeastrealitycheck.blogspot. ... caust.html

There are shelves worth of books written by scholars who have documented American foreign policy crimes such as these. It's not like that link is the only one out there.

Even if those numbers are accurate you still have no point! This has nothing to do with 9/11 and it doesn't make our response to terrorist attacks any less justified!

It's absolutely relevant to 9/11 seeing as US, British, Australian and European foreign policy towards the middle east has been consistent with the type of activities described in that article ie absolutely criminal, against everything we supposedly stand for and encouraging of violent retribution. Understanding this is important because the way to prevent more terrorism is to stop participating in the cycle of violence which feeds it. There were events which preceded 9/11 which were not only criminal and imperial by our standards, but made Islamists like Bin Laden want to attack us.

And of course America, like any other country in the world has a right to respond to any terrorist attack on their soil. What it doesn't have the right to do is operate outside the UN charter and international law. It doesn't have the right to make accusations against people without the requisite proof. There is nothing legally justifiable about attacking and occupying Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Yemen and implementing a worldwide torture regime and imprisoning people in system which is designed to sidestep the law.

Your argument sucks! So what are you trying to say? That we didn't have a right to respond to the 9/11 attacks in the way that we have because, we have made some mistakes in the past, like every country in the history of the earth! Give me a break!

Again, it's not that your country and it's allies had no right to response, it's that they had no right, morally and legally, to respond in the manner they did.

A rational response to the attacks would have looked much different, cost a lot less and would never have killed as many people.

I guess if you got your way all of these Radical Muslim nut jobs could go on killing innocent people and forcing their false beliefs on others, but thankfully the US is here to hunt them down and kill them if necassary! To bad, for you dude!

Just to repeat what I was saying to Optimus Prime, your country is not in the business of killing radical muslims because they are radical muslims. It kills them because they're a threat to it's strategic interests. The US, Britain, Australia and Europe will happily allie themselves with radical muslims like the House of Saud, Bahraini monarchs, Karzai government etc if it means they get what they want (access to oil, access to markets, military bases etc)

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

As to the rightness of your military response. Do you think it right to respond to the killing of innocent people, by carpet bombing a country and killing a whole lot of other innocent people?

Casualties are a sad reality of every war, What would you suggest that we had not responded! There's no such thing as a good war, but there is such a thing as a just war, and this war was just. Don't forget that we were the ones attacked. America doesn't take it, we are relentless, this is the spirit of our country.

Essentially you are saying that if your brother shot my brother, then I would be well within my rights to throw a handgrenade in your families home in retaliation.

Also mate you should really pay more attention to the economic state of your country.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29 (sic)''

Deuteronomy 13:6-16 (New International Version, ©2011)

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other godsâ€￾ (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other godsâ€￾ (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[a] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt,

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

@Aussie, You claim that we didn't have a right to go into afghanastan after AQ, Really? I'm glad that you have no political power or influence in this world, you are completely helpless to change our policies, your power and level of influence is confined to a balding forum, congrats!

And what is the right based on?

I'm proud of the outcome of my nation's persitent fight against AQ and terrorists around the world, I'm happy that we just killed Bin Laden , and i'm happy that we now have a wealth of information that will help us destroy AQ, and prevent future attacks.

Are you proud of the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, millions more refugeed and the imprisonment and deaths in custody of innocent detainees?

Are you proud of the fact so many of your countries soldiers died looking for WMD that experts knew never existed?

My country said that it would never forget AQ's attack and it has not, we're still fighting the taliban and AQ in Afghanastan and there's not a thing that you can do to stop it!

Please share with us the information proving Bin Laden was involved in the attacks. This should get you a medal from the White House and the FBI, considering they admitted that couldn't find any.

If you disagree with it than to bad! There hasn't been a single terrorist attack in our country since 9/11 due to our vigilant efforts against AQ, what we are doing is working for us, and you can't change that!

Yes it's true, there hasn't been another attack in your country but to attribute it to the wars you are fighting is mere speculation.

And anyway, you've lost nearly 6000(?) soldiers fighting these wars so any gains in terms of saving American lives you believe have been made are easily dismissed.

Because of these wars your country is a trillion dollars lighter, your military is experiencing record numbers of suicides, anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world is higher than it's ever been and your adverseries around the world are rubbing their hands together after seeing how incapable you are of winning wars. How you can conclude that your policies are 'working for you' is certainly beyond my understanding.

''the way to prevent more terrorism is to stop participating in the cycle of violence which feeds it. There were events which preceded 9/11 which were not only criminal and imperial by our standards, but made Islamists like Bin Laden want to attack us.''

Don't you get it? We are the great satan, in the words of Bin Laden, our actions made no difference whatesoever to Bin Laden because we were a secular nation, a sinful nation in his view, he was following the Quran and this is why he attacked us, merely being a nation of Non believers is just cause to be attacked and conquered in the name of Islam (sic)![/color]

America is not the only secular country in the world, so you'll have to come up with a better theory than that.

Let's consider this, straight from the horses mouth:

Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'

It's instructive to point out that his primary gripes are all related to American foreign policy. The former head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA has pointed this out. The same conclusions are made by your own defence department:

In 2004, Donald Rumsfeld directed the Defense Science Board Task Force to review the impact which the administration's policies -- specifically the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- were having on Terrorism and Islamic radicalism. They issued a report in September, 2004 (.pdf) and it vigorously condemned the Bush/Cheney approach as entirely counter-productive, i.e., as worsening the Terrorist threat those policies purportedly sought to reduce. It's well worth reviewing their analysis, as it has as much resonance now as it did then (h/t sysprog)

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... /terrorism

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to have a religous debate but,

If you don't want to have a religious debate, don't bring up religion.

You needed a reasonably indepth understanding of the Bible to be able to dismiss those quotes from the Old testament. Do you have a similar indepth understanding of the Koran? No.

Edit. Actually ignore this post. Aussieavodart just completely destroyed you with his post above.

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29 (sic)''

Deuteronomy 13:6-16 (New International Version, ©2011)

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other godsâ€￾ (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other godsâ€￾ (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[a] both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt,

Oh, the Bible says worst things than that. The difference is the vast majority of Christians do not act on it. Where as a fair number of Muslims do act on it where they are able. (Granted many Muslims don't - Thank God)

Name one Muslim country that has a stable economy, stable society, safe to live in, freedom of speech with equal rights and quality of life for most. Turkey maybe.

Name a Christian country that has those qualities? Spain, France, Britain, America, etc. The list goes on.

I have zero problem with picking faults with the West for how the are dealing with the situation (when I say West I don't mean just America). However, anyone who thinks that allowing Muslims to carry on without criticising them, debating how we can stop them and realising their is a serious issue will regret it one day. (because if you are not a Muslim you are at war right now whether you want to be or not).

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

First off I completely reject what you seem to be implying, that the war on terror is a war aimed at defeating fundamentalist muslims. It isn't and never has been. It's nothing more than a war which seeks to gain favorable strategic outcomes for the west. All the nations who have signed onto the GWOT have allied themselves with fundamentalist Islamic regimes and terrorist groups in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Bahrain etc and will continue to do so for as long as it helps them achieve their strategic goals.

I think the war on Terror is a war on fundamentalist Muslims. The West is NEVER going to say we are at war with Muslims because people like yourself will go nuts. But if I can see the future war with Muslims, and so can loads of others, I can bet you the the CIA can also.

The West cannot just attack all fundamentalist Muslims, you work your way in, start bribing, stop the worst, work your way in to the system. You cannot go to war with a group that fight dirty.

Of course the West have their own agenda.

To answer your question as to what we westerners should do about Islamic motivated violence in other people's countries, I would have thought the answer is fairly obvious. You support the secular, democratic movements within those countries and let the locals take care of it. Foreign intervention and occupation of those countries by our troops is for the most part completely counterproductive and empowers fundamentalist muslims, as does supporting and arming the dictators and monarchs which rule those countries and brutalize their citizens.

We will lose. I travel to Philippines and they bomb buses. Why? Because the 5% Muslims want the 85% Christians to follow Muslim law. They kill and rape. How do you fight that?

The Philippines survives with help from the Americans. I for one respect the Americans for that. They may f*** up at times, but they are also heroes at times. In the Philippines they are heroes.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Finfighter that was a pitiful response to Aussieavodarts post. Trollish in fact. You just ignore any point you cannot deal with.

Please read and reply to the posting of OBL's letter, and read and reply to the posted statements from your own government concerning the war on terror.

In 2004, Donald Rumsfeld directed the Defense Science Board Task Force to review the impact which the administration's policies -- specifically the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- were having on Terrorism and Islamic radicalism. They issued a report in September, 2004 (.pdf) and it vigorously condemned the Bush/Cheney approach as entirely counter-productive, i.e., as worsening the Terrorist threat those policies purportedly sought to reduce. It's well worth reviewing their analysis, as it has as much resonance now as it did then (h/t sysprog)

Also finfighter, there have been many Christian terrorists as you should be aware. As what is important is the death they cause, the suicide part is a silly distinction on your part so I will ignore it.


Optimus - My point was that as any translated religious text can be translated in various ways, and as isolated sentences can be taken out of context, using lines of the quran to condemn a whole religion is pitiful at best, hateful and xenophobic at worst.

Dubai for one, Qatar, Turkey. It is important to note though, that the Ottoman empire was at the top of the heap for a long time. So obviously countries can succeed economically despite being predominantly Islamic

With regards to the situation today, seems to me the worst thing one could do is paint yourself as a large external enemy, as the US has done. Add to that hugely damaging economic sanctions, an occupying enemy force with a very casual attitude toward civilian casualties and then you're just making it far easier for fundamentalists to recruit.