We killed Bin Laden! f*** your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, do you notice a trend? The terrorist attacks are never the fault of the radical Muslims in aussies view[/b][/color], he always justifies their actions! What a sicko! I will not debate with people with these types of character flaws, I wouldn't have debated with a Nazi sympathizer during WWII either!

The argument I am making is not even concerned with examining the morality/immorality of terrorist attacks. You can debate that subject if you want, I don't want to because I consider the ethics of terrorist attacks against civilians to be such a no-brainer that it doesn't even require debate.

The argument I am making is one which examines the things which motivate terrorists and how they get support amongst various populations which is crucial to know if the goal is to isolate and ultimately defeat them.

I have to agree with FinFighter. There is having a debate with someone, and then there is arguing with someone who will no matter what not accept that the radical Muslims have to accept responsibility for their actions in this society like the rest of us.

A completely dishonest representation of what I've been saying.

Anyone can throw out inflammatory accusations in order to try and capture the moral high ground. Unless you back them up with evidence -as you've obviously failed to do in the above post- then they are nothing but personal attacks.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

This does seem to be the crux of the argument, but only because neither of you seem to be able to, or possibly refuse to accept the idea that one can disagree with terrorist actions, and also disagree with the actions of the governments that provoke those actions. Simultaneously.

^^^^Listen to powersam

 

[wi11iam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

What you guys should understand is that while this is a religious problem, it still comes down to humanitys difficulty to integrate demographics that look and sound different and come from different backgrounds.

I do not condone the extremist actions, in fact i wish every quran and mosque could be destroyed instantly (religion = primitive)

But...look at it from their perspective...doesn't matter about the good intentions of the USA, they invaded several countries in the region, Iran is "surrounded" by Western troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I know for sure if middle eastern armies occupied france and ireland (im in the uk) I would hate them incredibly.

So the issue to deal with now is whether we:
a) continue with attempts to control their populations.
b) back off

if you take option b), they think they have won, and islam will be stronger than ever. But if you take option a), you can pretty much guaranteee theres gona be a muthafucking huge war in the next few decades.

It's all about perspective.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

But...look at it from their perspective...doesn't matter about the good intentions of the USA, they invaded several countries in the region, Iran is "surrounded" by Western troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I know for sure if middle eastern armies occupied france and ireland (im in the uk) I would hate them incredibly.

So the issue to deal with now is whether we:
a) continue with attempts to control their populations.
b) back off

if you take option b), they think they have won, and islam will be stronger than ever. But if you take option a), you can pretty much guaranteee theres gona be a muthafucking huge war in the next few decades.

It's all about perspective.

Yep that's pretty much it. The US military's own counterinsurgency manual is riddled with that kind of thinking-

"Combat operations must therefore be executed with an appropriate level of restraint to minimize or avoid injuring innocent people. Not only is there a moral basis for the use of restraint or measured force; there are practical reasons as well. Needlessly harming innocents can turn the populace
against the COIN effort. Discriminating use of fires and calculated, disciplined response should characterize COIN operations. Kindness and compassion can often be as important as killing and capturing insurgents."

"A-28. Building trusted networks begins with conducting village and neighborhood surveys to identifycommunity needs. Then follow through to meet them, build common interests, and mobilize popular support.This is the true main effort; everything else is secondary. Actions that help build trusted networks support the COIN effort. Actions that undermine trust or disrupt these networks—even those that provide ashort-term military advantage—help the enemy"

http://usacac.leavenworth.army.mil/CAC2 ... M_3-24.pdf

That all sounds like the exact opposite of what we've been doing in those countries. We've failed to make life better for those populations and have dictated terms to them for the most part.

 

[squeegee]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Took the U.S. 10 years to kill one guy running in sandals !LOL Anyways! Nothing f*****g changed so far. Got rocket attacked 3 times yesterday and 2 Apache killed an Afghan that shot RPG in Kandahar city same day. I am in Afgan right now and so amaze about the technology here and the amount of people deployed chasing zombies in sandals but nothing progress a bit. f*****g F-18, A-10, Apaches, drones (predators...) flying 24/7. f*****g fobs everywhere. You should see how your goverment is spending the money on terrorism.. This is a f*****g joke. Anyways! All I can say is f*** ANA, f*** AMP, f*** the Middle-east and f*** everybody in it.

 

[Jacob]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I think he's from Canada. Eh?

Wherever you're at and from Squeegee...and I know it sucks...but THANK YOU for your service!

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

You spent a trillion dollars and wasted hundreds of thousands of Afghan and Iraqi civilians, nearly 6 thousand of your own troops, locked up and tortured hundreds of people who turned out to be innocent and made every muslim in the world hate you even more just to kill a guy who has no operational involvement in Al-Qaeda and was supposedly the mastermind behind 9/11, although nobody from the American government has provided any concrete evidence of his involvement.

Right.

But I understand the infantile cheering from the folks who like the cartoon version of terrorism- scary villan who is the beholder of all that is evil vs good guy heroes, heroes save the day and uphold their place as defenders of all that is righteous etc Don't bother those folk about petty things like civilian deaths, massive deficits, serious breaches of international law, future blowback etc None of that sh*t matters, just kick some ***!

Osama got everything he wanted. He won. He lured America and it's idiot followers into two quagmires which they couldn't win and would earn the hatred of muslims worldwide. Then he got his martyrs death. In the time it took to write this post NATO, the US and it's allies have probably killed enough Afghanis/Iraqi's/Libyans/Yemenis/Whoever to do more recruting for AQ than Osama ever could.

The fact that Obama knew about this since mid-last year and chose not to do anything about it until recently (when his campaign for re-election started) should tell you everything you need to know about how much of a thread Bin Laden actually represented- none. Obama just knew that it was political gold so it was stashed on the backburner to be bought out and just the right time and surprise surprise he's enjoying a surge in the polls.


booorrrriinnnnggggg

In the USA we are blessed by plenty of beneficial disagreements and discussions and opinions on the free web and free news media by experts in the field and educated and experienced minds that make our free society better for all the country and the earth. But we also have here amongst us: Mr twisted logic himself.....AUSSIEAVODART!!!! :jackit: He takes sound bytes of the truth and twist it just a bit to make it fit his way of thinking. You know, "my parent tried to kill me cause my vegetables have pesticide residue in them". Twisted thinking.

aussieavodart we know all about your bizarre conspiracy theory mind set and endless diatribes about how the white man murdered all the Indians and how the Christians are destroyers of humanity, and how the USA and big companies are so evil....on and on you go with your ridiculous meanderings so twisted your logic is. You ARE the BIG baby teenager declaring that your parents are trying to kill you because they make you eat your vegetables. Are on pot or something or just living in a permanent fantasy movie land??? Do wake up in the morning and blame your hair loss on global warming or is there something in your corporate shampoo????? That would be just like you to do so. Please tell us you don't live in the united states...if you do please go, please before you reproduce. Go live in ah uhmmm.... I don't know.... Pakistan or Afghanistan or somewhere similar, they agree completely with the things you say. THEIR MIND SET HAS BROUGHT THEM GREAT SUCCESS IN THE MODERN AGE LIKE IT HAS YOU!

 

[squeegee]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Yep! Canadian..Thanks a lot guys! My second time here. The real problem is that everything is corrupted and there is too many stupid rules to go around. It should be zero tolerance.. We've been here for too long anyways. Why bother when they don't? They are harvesting the poppies (heroin) right now and then war will start again this Summer. BTW.. Mad props for the Seals with Bin Laden! I hope they sh*t, piss and puked on his face before they dumped him in the Ocean.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

In the USA we are blessed by plenty of beneficial disagreements and discussions and opinions on the free web and free news media by experts in the field and educated and experienced minds that make our free society better for all the country and the earth. But we also have here amongst us: Mr twisted logic himself.....AUSSIEAVODART!!!! :jackit: He takes sound bytes of the truth and twist it just a bit to make it fit his way of thinking. You know, "my parent tried to kill me cause my vegetables have pesticide residue in them". Twisted thinking.

aussieavodart we know all about your bizarre conspiracy theory mind set and endless diatribes about how the white man murdered all the Indians and how the Christians are destroyers of humanity, and how the USA and big companies are so evil....on and on you go with your ridiculous meanderings so twisted your logic is. You ARE the BIG baby teenager declaring that your parents are trying to kill you because they make you eat your vegetables. Are on pot or something or just living in a permanent fantasy movie land??? Do wake up in the morning and blame your hair loss on global warming or is there something in your corporate shampoo????? That would be just like you to do so. Please tell us you don't live in the united states...if you do please go, please before you reproduce. Go live in ah uhmmm.... I don't know.... Pakistan or Afghanistan or somewhere similar, they agree completely with the things you say. THEIR MIND SET HAS BROUGHT THEM GREAT SUCCESS IN THE MODERN AGE LIKE IT HAS YOU!

Endless ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you just make it look like you guys have no valid arguments for your side at all.

 

[optimus prime]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Endless ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you just make it look like you guys have no valid arguments for your side at all.

Not at all. If you look back through my posts there are times where I agree that the West has made some errors. I know full well that the West has made things worst in places. There is not 100% blame on any side. I am yet to see yourself and Aussie recognise or acknowledge the errors of the Radical Muslims.

Northern Ireland is the fault of the British. However killing and murdering innocent people from the Christians was/is inexcusable.

Palestine is the fault of the British. However trying to wipe Israel of the face of the earth is inexcusable.

Usually in a debate, such as talking about the Radical Muslims in Philippines killing innocent people, you say 'Yes that is inexcusable, they make things worse for themselves, etc' You don't just blame it on the Catholic government.

I live in Britain, which is an atheist country, you don't see me killing and bombing shopping centres because people use contraception or have abortions. You have peaceful protests.

People use 'Jesus Christ' as blasphemy all the time, it bothers me greatly, I will not send you a death threat. I dare you to use Mohammed as a curse when you are mad. I dare you to draw Mohammed as a joke. See what happens to you.

My point is simple. The West needs to re-evaluate its strategy, I agree with you both on that matter, but a very hard line needs to be placed on ANY human who thinks it is acceptable to murder innocent (non-soldiers) because they don't get their own way. If we all act like that then we are doomed.

How anyone can argue what I have just said above is beyond me. Surely you must agree to that.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

My point is simple. The West needs to re-evaluate its strategy, I agree with you both on that matter, but a very hard line needs to be placed on ANY human who thinks it is acceptable to murder innocent (non-soldiers) because they don't get their own way. If we all act like that then we are doomed.

How anyone can argue what I have just said above is beyond me. Surely you must agree to that.

Noone has argued with that, in fact either me or aussieavodart said it first, but we were talking about civilian casualties in the middle east. That hard line you speak of, how does that fit with carpet/cluster bombing Afghanistan? Or the huge amount of civilian casualties in this war on terror? Espeicially when the US especially has always had the capacity for surgically precise covert strikes such as the one which executed Bin Laden (though the idealist in me thinks he should have been captured and tried).

Why have I not rattled on about how bad suicide bombers are? Because it is bloody obvious.

I said this in a PM to finfighter, and I'll post it here just to clear up my stand on things:

What you've got to understand is I am 100% against any and every action that causes innocent death.

That includes terrorist bombing done by AQ AND cluster/carpet bombing done by the west.

It includes Hamas rocket attacks AND Israeli military strikes.

It includes Hussein's murderous rule AND the US trade embargos which starved so many people.

For me there is no such thing as acceptable collateral damage. You dig?

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"powersam"
Endless ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you just make it look like you guys have no valid arguments for your side at all.

I will speak out against ideas "that the USA is more evil than our enemies". It is a tired excuse.

And I cannot feel sorry for any people that blame all their problems and all their reasons for being the way the are on the USA. It is a tired excuse. I have been over seas in 3rd world counties for months at a time and I hear the same thing over and over. I hear it here locally too from people. All their problems are because of the USA, or so they constantly say. And you know what, I don't buy into it at all. Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blaming it on someone else.

I would love to see the US take a back seat and leave all other countries and not meddle in their affairs, at the end of the day, if we do, they will continue their same uneducated extremist plans anyway.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"powersam"
Endless ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you just make it look like you guys have no valid arguments for your side at all.

I will speak out against ideas "that the USA is more evil than our enemies". It is a tired excuse.

That is called a straw man and carries no weight here.

And I cannot feel sorry for any people that blame all their problems and all their reasons for being the way the are on the USA. It is a tired excuse. I have been over seas in 3rd world counties for months at a time and I hear the same thing over and over. I hear it here locally too from people. All their problems are because of the USA, or so they constantly say. And you know what, I don't buy into it at all. Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blaming it on someone else.

I'm pretty sure those people who have a problem with the US occupying their country, would not have that problem anymore if the US got out. I'm also sure all the civilian casualties killed by US troops in the war on terror, can rightly blame the US for their deaths, just as AQ is to blame for the casualties from 9/11.

I know what you'll say here so let me cut you off. If AQ is responsible for the deaths of those middle eastern civilians killed by western troops in the war on terror, then the deaths of 9/11 are on the hands of your government. Do you see where that line of reasoning goes?

I would love to see the US take a back seat and leave all other countries and not meddle in their affairs, at the end of the day, if we do, they will continue their same uneducated extremist plans anyway.

So would I. You'd all be safer, your economy would be in great shape and you'd not let your government erode your privacy and civil rights under the guise of 'national security'.

 

[squeegee]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

FinFighter Remember that Bin Laden had a lot of kids... and allied... this is not the end of the story. :sobbing: I got 2 rockets attacks last night.. 3 & 5 AM.. These cocksuckers are still out there.

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

"powersam"
Endless ad hominem attacks on those who disagree with you just make it look like you guys have no valid arguments for your side at all.

I will speak out against ideas "that the USA is more evil than our enemies". It is a tired excuse.

That is called a straw man and carries no weight here.

[quote:wqlh9fni]And I cannot feel sorry for any people that blame all their problems and all their reasons for being the way the are on the USA. It is a tired excuse. I have been over seas in 3rd world counties for months at a time and I hear the same thing over and over. I hear it here locally too from people. All their problems are because of the USA, or so they constantly say. And you know what, I don't buy into it at all. Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blaming it on someone else.

I'm pretty sure those people who have a problem with the US occupying their country, would not have that problem anymore if the US got out. I'm also sure all the civilian casualties killed by US troops in the war on terror, can rightly blame the US for their deaths, just as AQ is to blame for the casualties from 9/11.

I know what you'll say here so let me cut you off. If AQ is responsible for the deaths of those middle eastern civilians killed by western troops in the war on terror, then the deaths of 9/11 are on the hands of your government. Do you see where that line of reasoning goes?

I would love to see the US take a back seat and leave all other countries and not meddle in their affairs, at the end of the day, if we do, they will continue their same uneducated extremist plans anyway.

So would I. You'd all be safer, your economy would be in great shape and you'd not let your government erode your privacy and civil rights under the guise of 'national security'.[/quote:wqlh9fni]


Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blame it on or attack some other "INFIDEL" ....LIKE YOU.

Oh that's right you and your country is immune to to any dictators and terrorist with arms and nukes, I forgot. That could never happen could it.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blame it on or attack some other "INFIDEL" ....LIKE YOU.

Oh that's right you and your country is immune to to any dictators and terrorist with arms and nukes, I forgot. That could never happen could it.

Not immune but I doubt anyone would bother with Australia. That said, the reasons why AQ did what they did are a matter of public record and have been posted earlier in the thread. It was about US foreign policy.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

That said, the reasons why AQ did what they did are a matter of public record and have been posted earlier in the thread. It was about US foreign policy.

There are no legitimate ''reasons'' to justify such behavior, that's like explaining the ''reasons'' behind a Rape, or child molestation, it's deplorable to do so. I don't even see why you find it appropriate or necessary, to mention reasons behind such a heinous act.

Our foreign policy aside, AQ and radical Islam hated our country, because we are not a Muslim nation, and they seek muslim conquest, if you know anything about the Quran or it's founder Muhammad, then you would surely understand this, irrespective of our foreign policy, we would have still been considered an enemy and target, fair game according to the Quran, and Radical Islam. Those are the facts, and I'm not here to debate, because I have already stated the simple truth.

It is rhetoric like that which stifles genuine discussion. A reason does not have to be legitimate, it just has to be a reason. If you understand someones motivation, no matter how twisted or warped that motivation is, you have a better understanding on how to deal with them effectively.

It is, and always will be, appropriate and necessary to discuss the reasons behind any and every act. To not do so, would be to prevent yourself from learning from history and to paraphrase Santayana:

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

To call the investigation of motivation deplorable, is both ridiculous and ineffective.

Your second paragraph is simple hyperbole. We have the stated reasons for their attack, that is what we have to go on. It is from the horses mouth. That is why they committed the heinous attack of 9/11. Those are the facts, as stated, as posted, in the public record and as agreed upon by advisors from your own government.

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Hey powersam and aussieavodart I don't suppose either one of your countries have been attacked recently?? Did any self professed jihadists actually threaten you guys and actually succeed in destroying any of your innocent countrymen, your pentagon or twin towers..and more.... No wonder it is easy for you to criticize our nation for fighting back. No wonder you both have better ideas for us to follow, after all if we take your advice and it does not work out for us it is our nation not yours that pays the price.

Now where is that tread where you state that ADOLF HITLER had very good reasons and was a really just a nice guy and it was the big bad USA that caused him to do what he did.....I know it is here somewhere.

Take the USA out of the equation and you will still have those SAME LOW LIFE TERRORIST IDIOTS doing the same things, AND HAVING THE SAME PROBLEMS, but just blame it on or attack some other "INFIDEL" ....LIKE YOU.

So you might should thank us for dieing and fighting your enemy for you. HA! I know that would never happen. You would just call us for help to come help you. Happens all the time, some country calls up and says help for Gods sake we are under attack can you please send in the marines. So there goes squeegee to give his life for you and you just criticize. If only it could happen to your country I guess you would surrender and apologize for your foreign policies huh? Land of the brave you guys are not for sure. Your not worried extremist would get in control of Pakistani NUKES, you can just join them like you do now.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

A few things. First I lost a friend in the towers. Second Australia supported the USA in the war on terror. Third have you not heard of the Bali bombings?

Bringing up Hitler is both idiotic and cheap. Also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

FYI hairriffic, all you do is repeat yourself, you don't read posts you, bring absolutely nothing to the discussion and you seem to have zero capacity for objective critical thinking. So I will be ignoring your posts from now on.

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I heard about the Bali bombings....let me guess, according to your way of thinking, the Balinese deserved it right.

But there is a post where HILTlER is praised, where is it? I am doing a serarch now.

Brief search in all fairness I don"t see anything like that. My apologies.